Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Hello, I have a question about the starting configuration in the goalie zone.
Are we allowed to start with an arm that is about 8 ft high at the start of the match? Can you cite the rule please?
Thanks!:)

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Just for a little exercise, can you cite a rule saying you CAN'T start 8' tall in the goalie zone?

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

HINT #1
Here is part of the answer:

3.2.5.6 G23
If a ROBOT is in contact with carpet in its GOALIE ZONE, and for only one ROBOT per ALLIANCE at a time, ......

But don't just look at the one place in the rules. Remember many places in the rules cover the robot and what can and can't be done.

Hint #2
There is another part of the rules that mentions "STARTING CONFIGURATION"

Happy Hunting.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

There is nothing in the rules that gives a maximum height for the starting configuration. We talked about this at OKC and allowed a robot starting in the goalie zone to have an unlimited height. We had Frank Merick there too, so I'm guessing if that wasn't allowed, he would have said something.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Hint #2

4.1.4 R4
In the STARTING CONFIGURATION, the ROBOT must constrain itself such that no part of the ROBOT extends
outside the vertical projection of the FRAME PERIMETER, with the exception of minor protrusions such as bolt heads,
fastener ends, rivets, etc.

Nowhere does it state a horizontal limit.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

I went back and re-read the rules and the glossary for STARTING CONFIGURATION and I think your interpretation at OKC was correct. I didn't catch that one.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

I'm guessing you meant to say vertical instead of horizontal.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

It states the horizontal limit right there. "no part of the robot extends outside the vertical projection of the frame perimeter." That means the imaginary vertical wall that is 20" from your frame. There is no rule however stating that vertical height limits are any different in starting configuration than they are during tele-op.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

The frame perimeter is the imaginary vertical plane defined by the outside face of the frame.

The 20" distance you mentioned has to do with the restriction during the match, not the starting configuration.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

You do know there is a ceiling? Would that be considered contact outside of the field? :)

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

You can extend as high as you want, as shown by our static 8 ft robot ;) . But the biggest problems we came into were doors and loading onto the field.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Whoops, I didn't mean to put in the 20", I was just referring to frame perimeter limits.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Looks like you can have an 8' robot. Just be careful to always be in contact with the goalie zone.

In theory an opponent can push you out of the goalie zone. I would not call that a G14 violation because the purpose of pushing you out is to get you to drop to 5' to make their shots easier. Just because your robot is incapable of dropping below 5' is not their problem.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Another question as per the rules, can a Goalie robot be pre-placed anywhere in the goalie zone or does it need to start centered and move itself to defend the goal after autonomous starts?

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

It may be placed anywhere, but you have to declare a final position, after which offensive (non-goalie zone) bots get to pick positions.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Ok thanks.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

And just to cite a rule:

Which was later clarified in the Q&A to be like I stated (goalies must place first, then white-zone bots may (re-)position)

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

We actually had an issue with that in L.A.--one of the teams was playing goalie, but they positioned, their opponents positioned, then the goalie team repositioned, and then their opponents repositioned.... After a couple of rounds of that, one of the refs went over and kept them from moving the robot again.

Basically, once you've placed, your opponents can adjust--but if you adjust again, so can they. Do it too often, and get called for delaying the match.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

They made us change after initial practice rounds, we now have to automate movement during autonomous rather than just being a static blocker pre-placed.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Sorry, but there is nothing in the rules that says that you have to MOVE--in any way, shape, or form--during automode. You can, in fact, just sit there, regardless of where you are on the field--it's called the Mars Rock automode (you sit there and wait for Opportunity to come along). Whoever made you change that can go read the rulebook again--standard penalty for not knowin' the rules.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

We did movement to gain a "surprise" position advantage otherwise the offensive bots know where we will be at the beginning of autonomous. So perhaps I misspoke... they made us stop pre-placing the bot "Mars rock style" after offense set up.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

True, true. I was thinking it was because someone thought sitting still was illegal. You could always use reverse psychology and move during practice... and then sit still during a real match or two!

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

I doubt we'll get in practice but we'll see... good idea

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Just as a thought is there are rule saying that you can't use an opponent's hot goal to move to their hot goal to block balls? I think that something like this would be able to really mess up the auton of many great robots.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Nope, no rule at all on that.

Note, however, that you'll still have to move over there...

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Well so long as you have a really fast robot you might have a chance because if you block the first hot goal (or start there) then once the hot goal switches you will already know that it is hot before the other robot knows. Buuuut that would be insanely hard. Either way it would be interesting to take a look at!

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

You could also adapt the cheesy poof hot goal detection method to goalie movement

If CheesyVision is used against 254 to kill their auto, the world will end!

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Yup, cheesy vision is VERY interesting

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Yes I have caused that many times. But somebody keeps recreating it. :ahh:

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Ah yes, Teh Chezy-Pocalypse. Everybody in the stands turns into EJ and starts doing the #EJShuffle. Then Frank announces that he will never #BringBackTheDip and every robot in the world turns into SkyStalker. All robots are then deprived of their hats. Finally, things get so Chezy that the sealing can't hold us.

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Yep, we definitely had not considered this, nor do we have any other tricks up our sleeves. Definitely not. ::safety::

Re: Starting configuration in the Goalie Zone
 

Of course, the shooting team could use that method to evade your blocks, even if they don't get a hot goal shot.

If teams take this to its logical conclusion, we can expect to see drivers doing really elaborate dances in front of their controls during autonomous.