cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Hello! I've been looking at the new cRIO for 2015 (https://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-30419) and it seems to me (according to the picture) that the Digital Sidecar and the cRIO are now combined. Is this true? Thanks!

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Yes, the digital sidecar and the cRIO are now combined. I am surprised however that the roboRIO only has 4 analog ports. Can someone elaborate on that?

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Yes this is true. At the Waterford district competition, I was able to see a test robot that 1718 made for the 2015 control system. I believe there's also a new PD board, and an extra smaller board for pneumatic solenoids.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

There's an expansion port that provides more inputs if they're needed.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Yes, but as I understand it (Bomb Squad showed a test robot at midwest), the expansion port can't be used for analog ins. The guy started talking about how you could use I2C or USB for that, and I got confused.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

That's interesting. I honestly thought we could use it for analog ins. This could be troublesome.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Sorry for the misunderstanding. It was pretty noisy where we were talking. There are a total of eight analog inputs. Four of them are immediately accessible with four more on the expansion port.

Thanks to everyone sho stopped by and let us know your questions.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

A new RoboRIO board will cost less than $450 to purchase. That's fantastic.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

True, but it will be available to all teams in the 2015 KOP anyways.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Any truth to the talk that you can get the new RobotRIO in the fall, and then it will not be in the KOPs. If yes, how is that controlled cost-wise.

Also does anyone know how the software framework will change to support the new hardware?

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

None. Every team gets one in the 2015 KOP.

Java is based on JavaSE instead of JavaME. WPILib will substantially be the same, but will obviously change to handle changes in controllers.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

I wouldn't trust anything you hear about pricing or availability unless it comes from NI or FIRST.

Java and C++ will use Eclipse. Libraries will stay much the same.
Check out the thread titled CRIOIII. It answers a lot of questions.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

The FAQ in OP's link gives the price:

I, personally, am scared to see how many teams will decide to plug the RoboRIO into the old PDB. It has the same connector as the FRC CRIO II, however it takes 12v instead of 24v. Old PDB+RoboRIO = Death.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

The connectors on the PD board are not the same, the connectors on the Rio are however. The current PD board has a 4-pin Combicon connector for cRIO power, while the 8-slot also uses the same 4-pin connector, the 4-slot uses a 2-pin Combicon connecor.

The new system uses a Wieldmuller push-in type connector on the PD Panel for cRIO power(and for CAN for that matter). This connector is built-in and simply allows you to insert stripped wire. A spring contact hold the wire in place.

The RoboRio still has the same 2-pin Combicon connector as the current 4-slot cRIOII for power.

While it is still possible to connect any voltage source to the RoboRio, including but not limited to the old PD board, it would be hard for teams to do this by mistake. If they do do this, it will not be because they were following any official instructions.

Hope this helps,
Kevin

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

The RoboRIO uses the same 2-pin connector as the 4-slot cRIO on the RIO side. It uses the Wiedmuller wire-to-board connector on the PD side.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

True, but if someone wants a spare or something for personal use $450 is a heck of a lot easier to swallow than the price of the current one.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

That is correct, I mis-typed that part. Thanks for catching it. I will update my post.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Any idea as to when the CAD for the new control system will be available? I'd like to start designing systems that use the new parts.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

The case isn't finalized, but we have a photo of the hardware (0.25" grid size). I was pretty sure the board had dimensions in the NI documentation, but I could be mistaken.

We have additional photos here.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Will any of the alpha test teams be bringing a demo bot to CMP? Will NI have some sort of demonstration?

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Is that a new PD-board? looks smaller than the current one

Same WAGO connectors, but on a new board with CAN based monitoring.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

One down side to the new design is the elimination of the modules and break outs. We lost a digital side car a week ago on our practice bot. Cap on the voltage regulator was poped and no juice. We just swapped the digital IO module. On the new design we would have replaced the whole roborio. Big difference in cost.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

The roboRIO will be a lot more robust in that regard. It will be lot harder to fry any part of it.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Challenge accepted!

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

See This reply to a similar concern: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...97#post1350597

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

In the official announcement video where they revealed the features on august 8th 2013, NI announced that they would give one free to every team in 2015 so we can assume that it will be KOP at least for one year after its release.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

There should be something. Keep a look out for details.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

I haven't heard anything from the alpha team side of it, but since we drive and haul a trailer I've got no problems bringing ours. Anyone know who at Champs to contact to verify it won't cause a problem (i.e. - having 2 robots there, and where to set it + a display up?). Assuming we make it to championships, of course.

In addition, the new control system seminar that NI will be putting on at the Michigan State Championships will go up on 1718's youtube channel so everyone can watch it.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Ask FIRST HQ by email. frcteams@usfirst.org. You absolutely will need HQ approval.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

NI posted more info and CAD models. https://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-30419

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Any word on a display booth for the roboRIO being put up in St. Louis?

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

I haven't seen anything yet about a display, but the App shows a Q&A on the FRC Live Stage at 3PM on Thursday and 10AM on Friday.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

This looks very impressive. reminds me a bit of the old IFI system, but with so many more ways of attaching, well, whatever you want!

Looking forward to finding out when we can get our hands on them.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

There is a workshop scheduled for C++ and Java on the roboRIO: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...nd-conferences
Nothing listed for LabVIEW, but I'm sure the NI booth will have info.

In the NI doc it says the roboRIO will be available for purchase in December, for ~$450

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Any way to tell NI that their Creo CAD file isn't compatible with student versions of Creo?

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

I left a comment on the roboRIO page about the CAD incompatibility.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

I would presume the LabVIEW sessions at 6:00 and 7:00 would include roboRIO information. It would be pretty bizarre to have a workshop focused on programming for the cRIO.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

From my understanding, the LabVIEW training sessions are modeled after the presentations posted here: https://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-33629
These are for the cRIO. The abstracts for the workshops make them sound more like an introduction to the LV development environment, with specific examples / tips pertaining to FRC framework, than new stuff for the roboRIO.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Their FAQ says
Was hoping to have it a little earlier in the fall to play with. More anxious than concerned about working with the new system. Seems like it should be a pretty smooth transition.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Not really. You are technically above the rated input voltage but we took care to cover this as teams may accidentally do that.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

You just did :). I'll see what can be done. What version are teams using?

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Swing by the area around pit admin. You might see something!

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Creo Academic. The error message specifically is that the part was created with a commercial version of Creo and therefore won't work in the academic version. It's pretty easy to get around though, as a step file is included and Creo has no problem converting those. In fact, I'd almost say the STEP version is better, as it imports as an assembly with the pins as separate parts from the body, which is nice for doing wiring in Creo. Thanks! Can't wait to see the production model in person during the 2015 season!

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

WPI is going to have a small demo bot using the new control system at championship. It's really cool.

My favorite part is the new radio, but that bit still isn't finalized.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Let's go with the STEP model. I'll ask that we add a note on the site about file compatibility.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

The 2CAN is also integrated into the roboRIO

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Not exactly.

A separtate CAN interface is included on the RoboRio. It is a 2pin signal connector and the roborio has a built in can terminating resistor.

2CAN is not on the Roborio. 2CAN is a standalone product of CTRE.

Regards,
Kevin

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

The Power Distribution Board has the termination resistor, not the RoboRio.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

You need a termination resistor on BOTH ends of a CAN network to make it work. The RoboRio has one built in, always connected. The Power Distribution Board (at least the revision the Alpha Testers got) has one built in, connected through a jumper so that it may selectively be selected as the other end of the chain.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Not true.

For Controller Area Networks (CAN) to work properly, both ends of the bus need to be terminated.

This is because communication flows both ways on the CAN bus therefore both ends of the pair of signal wires (CAN_H and CAN_L) must be terminated.

The RoboRio has an internal terminating resistor that can not be removed. This means the RoboRio should always be at one end of the CAN Interface. The PD Board, has a setable terminating resistor by way of a jumper, this means the PD Board can be used at the other end of the CAN interface if the jumper is in place. However, the PD Board does not have to be at the end of the bus, you can remove the jumper and put another device after the PD Board, just make sure to add a terminating resistor to that device.

Hope this helps,
Kevin

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

My mistake. Still learning about the equipment.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Great, thanks!

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Does anyone know if the roborio is REQUIRED for the 2015 season, or will we have the option to continue using the cRIO for a year or two?

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

It will be required.
The cRIO's will still be compatible and can be used for practice robots.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Do you have a source for the cRios still being compatible because when I emailed FIRST, they said that they could not tell me because it would be disclosing software information for the new season.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

That FIRST answer addresses the question of legality under the 2015 rules which of course cannot be commented on before January 3, 2015.
We don't know what will be REQUIRED by the 2015 rules until January 3 when the rules are released for the first time to everyone at once.
There are no previews for individual teams via questions or otherwise.

So while neither I nor anyone else KNOWS the 2015 rules, I deduce that FIRST giving everyone a new control system in the Kit-of-Parts means that we will all be using it.
This is the 8th control system that FIRST has introduced. Every control system changeover in the past has completely replaced the previous system. I imagine this is because the old systems do not support the new capabilities and methods used for competition play. The systems only work together if the new system is degraded to operate under the limitations of the old system.

We're a Beta team.
One of our tests is that the new software still supports the old cRIO system.

P.S.
The Beta 2015 control system is actually being tested in some off-season events and it works fine alongside the old cRIO systems. However, setting up the communications means the mDNS system used by the new control system has to be disabled and the IP addresses hardcoded like the old system, and the new system has to be switched to use the old communication protocol.

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

Has the programming software for 2015 been released to the public, or only the beta teams?

Is there any way to set up eclipse to program the old crio with java so that we can start getting familiar with the process?

Would any beta teams be able to post a YouTube video showing off the java programming environment?

Re: cRIO 2015 : NI roboRIO
 

I suggest reposting your Java specific question in one of the Beta team threads on CD., like this one: 2015 Beta Testing - The Components are Here.

The software is with Beta teams only under an NDA, because we're verifying that everything works as expected and helping to refine the user documentation. We're creating bug reports and the FIRST/NI/CTRE groups are generating fixes.
General teams will get the final software in the 2015 KOP along with the hardware it runs on.

I'd check to see what Java Beta teams are closest to you. They will be doing workshops that you can attend and see the programming environment for yourself.

• 2015 Control System Beta Test Teams
• Map of Beta Test Teams