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FRC Blog - My Bad Call
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...og-My-Bad-Call
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Very very professionally handled by Frank, he took responsibility into his own hands and took blame for the mistakes that were made, glad to hear that this worked out for all parties involved.
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Gotta love Frank being able to admit when he's wrong. Glad to see 1323 going to champs!
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What am I going to do with all of these torches and pitchforks now?
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Frank has a knack for addressing issues in a manner most directors/leaders/officials should emulate. I truly appreciate his openness and transparency. It speaks volumes of his character that he's willing to admit a mistake and find the most equitable solution given the circumstances.
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+1 Frank. Always happy with the way he deals with situations.
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Truck Town Thunder, FRC Team 68, commends Frank for this demonstration of Gracious Professionalism. We look forward to earning a spot this year and hope they are in our Division at the FIRST Championships.
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Couldn't have handled it better . A+.
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Unsure how I feel about the Wild Card, as I would imagine a waitlisted team who hasn't been to the CMP since 2012 or earlier is now going to receive an email telling them they will have to wait longer for that opportunity. I'm also not sure how many other teams who believe they were in a similar, if less publicized, boat as 1323 will feel about that decision.
It is unquestionable, however, that 1323 is an outstanding team with a robot that is absolutely Championship worthy, and I know they will make the most out of the opportunity they have been given. Regardless of the Wild Card, +1 for Frank's public mea culpa and the changes to the coupon process. Now keep going! The larger, unresolved issue of this season remains, one that has impacted not only teams, but also many volunteers, and I would hope Frank and HQ are gearing up to address the issue in some meaningful, experience-improving fashion: Quote:
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This was the right thing to do, I'm glad FIRST and Frank stepped up here. That match shouldn't have been the last for 1323's seniors and now it won't be.
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I tried to post this in a comment on the blog, but it set of the SPAM filter for some reason. I was planning on posting it here anyway.
"This mistake was caught, and handled in an efficient amount of time. It is a good when people catch their mistakes, and explain their reasoning. Just an explanation would have been a great start to helping the teams involved, but extending the wildcard was a full remedy, and a great decision. The question I now have is; why hasn't something similar happened for the Orlando events? A controversial call was made in Orlando, and it could have affected one team their spot to championship. Why are you picking and choosing certain controversial calls to not only address, but also remedy and not others? Those teams deserve an explanation for what transpired, especially since they have given theirs." I am happy that 1323 now has a bid for championship, and FIRST definitely went down the right road to fix the situation. But as I said in my comment, why are they picking and choosing what to address? This is HQ's second questionable call of the season, and since they decided to address this one, why shouldn't they have to address the first one? |
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The right call for an unpleasant situation. +1 Frank!
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I have a question, what does the form / card look like for timeouts and substitutions?
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The wording might be slightly different, but I just looked at a pair of them on Saturday. |
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I'd like to join the chorus of posters in commending Frank for an excellent decision and a gracious admission of mistake. It takes quite the person to own up to something like this, publicly. What a guy.
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I'd prefer HQ focus their efforts on minimizing the controllable root causes that lead to such transgressions occurring. That is the kind of "freebie" I think all teams would genuinely appreciate! |
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Thanks to Frank and FRC HQ for doing what they could to "try and make it right" for 1323. I'm not going to lie, I was more upset than I have ever been at an FRC event leaving SVR Saturday afternoon (including after Einstein 2012). While this update doesn't completely wash out the bad taste in my mouth, it was definitely the right thing to do for 1323.
I'm really excited for 1323 to be coming to champs. Their robot and team is just plain awesome and they will make some noise in whatever division they end up in. Go Madtown! |
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(I see Travis already handled it...) |
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Thanks for the info on this. I had figured they were easy to confuse, only a one word difference.
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---- I don't have a dog in the fight, but I can see people coming out of the shadows saying "well we had a bad call in Qual 21 and we would have won and that would have moved us up 7 spots in the ranking and the number one seed would have chosen us and we would be going to worlds...." +1 for Frank, did some research, talked to all the participants and made the best repair he could. Sorry team xyz you missed on getting off the wait list, but who knows, maybe you are now #1 on the 2015 wait list. |
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A great response from Frank. Great news for 1323 as well.
Hate to mention that negative side, but Travis does raise a point that selective addressing of issues can lead to a very slippery slope, and sets a bad precedent. |
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All the way back in 2008 the entire finalists alliance at SVR were given Champs spots. |
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"Zero-tolerance" polices are zero-thought policies specifically because they strip the adjudicating body of the ability to apply judgment and reason to the situation, and that makes them bad policy. So yes, HQ should do everything they can to minimize all situations wherein such calls have to be made in the first place, but when those transgressions occur, the use of judgment to arrive at the most desirable (or least undesirable) outcome is not a slippery slope, it's necessary for sane and reasonable policy. |
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HQ calls were made in both situations, and in SVR's case, it was acknowledged as a mistake and remedied (A wildcard handed out, and a change in the backup coupon system). I would like to see something similar happen for Orlando. Not necessarily a wildcard being distributed, but FIRST acknowledging something went wrong, and how the plan to prevent it from happening again (as D.Allerd and Travis said). |
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Except nothing went wrong in the Orlando situation on HQ's side. The robot's competed illegally and were, rightfully, red carded. That's the rules from HQ's perspective. Now, as to whether they were told it was ok or not... that's an entirely different issue but is NOT at HQ's level. It's at the level of the LRI. |
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What sounds worse: a LRI knocks a team out or HQ knocks a team out? |
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But I think Andrew is right. I also think this was handled differently because Frank had more information about what went wrong. HQ can't always make calls like this, but when they can, I'm glad they do. |
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And if its different because Frank had more information, then why didnt he get more information from the Orlando Regional? This event was never even brought up in a blog post or anything by FIRST. |
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This decision was very professional of Frank. I truly think there was only one solution to this whole debacle, and Frank got it right.
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Waitlist Many FRC teams have already earned their way to the FIRST® Championship in April through their performance at events, and a high percentage of teams have accepted those slots when offered. Just a reminder that we expect very few waitlist slots to be available. The number available may be just a couple, or even zero. Frank I am sure this was a difficult but was a well discussed issue at FIRST HQ. +1 Frank! Aloha! |
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I think FIRST handled this in a very professional way. There will always be people that don't like when teams selectively get invited. But every issue is different and needs to be handled in a different way.
What I'm more excited about is that ever since Frank took over FRC director, things have become much more open to the community, and instead off all of us just sitting in the dark, we get answers and how they are going to fix things. I suspect that they want to say some things about how this year is going, but I think they are waiting until after competition season is over in order to acknowledge them. |
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FIRST may want to reconsider the way they handle tricky situations that come up at competition. Currently, it seems like a very disconnected way to manage situations that often have many sides to them. I'd love to see Frank or whoever else at HQ talk to not only FTA's, Head Refs, LRI's, etc, but maybe a student or two on a team being affected by the ruling? Not sure if this is feasible, but worth thinking about. Regardless, thank you Frank for connecting with Madtown and coming to the right conclusion. Glad we made it to the finals with 368 to open up that extra spot ;) -Mike |
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I'm saying that HQ made a bad call in the SVR case. I'm also saying that there's potential that the LRI made a bad call in the Orlando case. HQ should fix this because the origin of the bad call is with them. HQ should NOT fix Orlando because they were just following the rules. They SHOULD look into what caused it to make sure it can't happen again. IF (and this is a huge if) the LRI knocked out that alliance intentionally there's a big issue. But it's not one that a couple wild card spots will sort out. |
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Both outcomes came from calls to FIRST HQ. |
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You aint the only one. There's alot of wound up people on the board these days.It may be a good time to take a day or so off to get the blood pressure down. |
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This is the absolute best way they could handle this situation.
+1 Frank. |
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This is seriously the best news I've heard all day. Congratulations to team 1323 for a well deserved spot.
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Later, given new / more information, he changed his decision to reflect the actual situation. I think this is a great outcome. |
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Is there a post somewhere detailing what happened in Orlando? This is the first I've heard about it, searching isn't turning up anything useful, and I'm curious...
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+1 for Frank. Nice to see that HQ takes issues like the SVR one seriously, and fixes them quickly. |
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Thanks to Frank for explaining the situation and trying to make it right. Mistakes happen to everyone, and it is how we deal with them that shows our true character. We can all learn a lot about how to deal with a bad situation from the actions of 1323 and Frank these past couple of days.
It stinks for other teams that, for one reason or another, also had their seasons prematurely shortened. I am not in a position to say that these teams are any less deserving of a spot at the Championships, but I am just glad that in this case FIRST got it right. |
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Several are wondering why Frank/FIRST have not addressed other seemingly similar situations publicly as has been done here.
While I have no specific 'inside' information regarding any of the situations, lets give Frank/FIRST/HQ the benefit of the doubt here. It is clear that when the situation lends itself, a public explanation such as today's is given and the resolution is a good one. It could be that circumstances around other situations are such that a public 'airing' of the situation and its resolution is not in the best interest when all affected parties are considered. That doesn't mean that a best case resolution hasn't been made in ways that are not made public. FIRST has had more transparency in recent times, but that does not mean they can always be fully transparent on all matters. The directly affected parties for such issues deserve to have their concerns considered and typically will communicate directly with FIRST. The rest of the FIRST community is not entitled to have all matters and their resolutions explained to them as doing so may compromise some confidential information or have other undesirable effects. In some cases, parties are asked not to discuss resolutions with others as part of the resolution. This is the way it works in the real world, folks. Again, I am in no way saying that anything like this HAS happened in any situation (I have no clue), just saying that hearing nothing doesn't always mean you can assume nothing has happened. If you are not a directly effected party, assume that you do not have all the facts and your conclusions are suspect. This was the case for some CD posters concerning the SVR issue, prior to Frank's blog post. Thank you Frank for all you do for FRC. |
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Since there seems to be some lingering confusion on the Orlando situation I'm posting the link to the thread that has posts from 1902, 624, and 233.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...127083&page=12 Judge for yourselves how similar or not the situation is compared with SVR. It seems in both situations Frank was asked to make a decision with incomplete or incorrect information. **EDIT** 233 is the only alliance member left who does not currently have a spot at Championship. (They were also the alliance captain of that #1 seed) |
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I am not asking for the Wild Card to be removed. I just want people to understand that this tough decision did not come without consequences. Quote:
The Championship still offered an open enrollment phase back then, so perhaps the "stakes" weren't as high. Quote:
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I caution everyone to not so easily underestimate the collective emotional pressure boiling underneath the surface of this season. If HQ doesn't take suitable steps to see that it is properly relieved, and similar mistakes are made again in subsequent seasons, don't be surprised to see the endgame erupt into something that no one - teams, volunteers, and HQ - wants to see. I think all people are asking for is a public acknowledgment from HQ along the lines of "We made mistakes in developing and deploying significant game management aspects of the Aerial Assist season, and we fully own them. The responsibility for correcting them is ours. We apologize for the added stress this season has brought to teams and volunteers, and we assure you that we will do everything in our power this offseason to improve our internal quality control measures such that the competitive experience will be better for all involved." I honestly, truly, do not think that is too much to ask. It would go very far in alleviating the pressure I mentioned above. |
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Are you expecting a public statement after each week of competition for the major transgressions that occurred and/or 'went viral'? Consider a rookie team that is exposed to one event, doesn't follow CD, but then sees public apology statements through the blog (or an email blast) each week. Without a lot of context, they might think "what kind of organization have we gotten into?" If there is to be another public acknowledgement of troubles and intent to address them (and there very well might be), I'd expect it to come after the season is over, not before. It has already been acknowledged in a blog post that things are not as they had hoped and that they intend to work to incorporate lessons learned for future game design. |
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There may be another issue here that wasn't addressed by Frank's post...
How did he end up in a position to make a decision without adequate information? Should this have been handled by a call between the head ref and Aiden (not sure of his title, but let's call him the head head ref) and not escalated to Frank? I was trying to look at the manual for guidance and this was the best I could find. Quote:
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I am so, so proud of Frank for this post.
Yes, the wrong call was made, and he apologized for it and explained how he was going to fix it. Frank's really good at this transparency thing we're all begging for. However, it doesn't fix the issue that anyone thought it was at any point okay to penalize a team for an honest mistake, nor does it excuse the alleged statement made re: 'pulling the team out of championships'. Things need to change somewhere in the chain of command to avoid the overpowered-entitled-volunteer behavior that's become unfortunately all too common in the FIRST community. A big step in the right direction. All in all, the right thing to do for now. Good Guy Frank strikes again! :) |
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I also agree that the statement you quoted can be considered something along the lines of what I had requested. However, I know I and others would have preferred a standalone statement of regret instead of one buried in an array of charts and stats based on a (very) limited dataset of responses. The overall blog post seemed intended to sway the hearts and minds of the reader toward a "it's not so bad" viewpoint - attempting to influence those who had yet to fill out surveys. You can certainly communicate the need for the community to submit more surveys without posting charts and stats based on what has already been submitted by the self-admitted less than desirable few. Shouldn't we let the West Coast vote before declaring who won the Presidency? Would a more obvious admission of mea culpa have helped reduce much of the angst that popped up this week following SVR? Likely not. But for the larger population of folks who've been stung on a less overt level, I think it would have helped quite a bit. Let's move past the PR aspect of dealing with this season and return to the bottom line. I think FIRST is finding out that a growing percentage of the community believes that major changes, not minor tweaks, are required to bring about meaningful, lasting improvement. FIRST has said they are amenable to making changes - they have told us the extent to which they do so hinges largely upon the feedback we provide them. Whether you like the game or dislike it, whether your team has been directly impacted by blar or not, whether you are a student, mentor, or volunteer, SPEAK UP and let your voice be heard. Provide DETAILED accounts of both notable positive and negative experiences related to both the game and interactions with volunteers. To this end.... Is there a better way for individuals to share more "real-time" feedback with FIRST? Short of these team surveys that team leads may or may not distribute to all team members (or may not even know about), is there a more direct method for people to share their thoughts with FIRST HQ - one that doesn't flood email inboxes, one that can be responded to quickly by FIRST personnel, and one that does not involve an orange, black, and white colored forums site? Also, is there a working structure in place for VOLUNTEERS to provide their feedback to HQ - a standard system that FIRST requires all events to propagate? Such a discussion could be explored in a new thread. |
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Additionally, although backup and timeout coupons are passed through the head ref, most decisions that impact replays, changing teams, giving teams time to work on their robots, and the general scheduling issues are a joint decision between the FTA and head ref. To me it isn't so much an issue about interpreting and enforcing the game rules so much as a logistic and communication issue, which would fall under the FTA's purview. |
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Awesome decision by Frank and FRC. I'm only assuming but I bet there were a ton of factors involved with making this decision and the pressure was probably immense. This reminds me of a book for educators called "Teaching with Love and Logic". The book is on classroom management and the psychology behind working with others to create a productive environment. One of the major points in the book, is that it's difficult to create rules and procedures to cover every problem that pops up. The best you can do is deal with individual problems and come up with a solution for that problem. I'm as much into the rules as the next person but this scenario calls for an individual solution.
All in all, this is a good learning opportunity (for anyone) because it demonstrates a problem solving scenario that comes with leadership responsibility. A rough call was made, it was evaluated, a solution was presented after weighing all of the information, and now the parties involved are moving forward. Examples of this outside of FIRST are few and far between. Good for Good Guy Frank! |
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An excellent response and outcome. I'm glad that FIRST put the right priority on fairness. I completely understand the problem of communicating in this situation, and I'm glad that they came to this resolution.
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+1 Frank. Thanks for making it right -- as well as for your example of Gracious Professionalism. You put the attributes that FIRST emphasizes into practice.
There's not really many people I look up to in this world, but you've become one of them. Thanks for taking the blame, and showing this generation of FIRSTers (including me) how a real leader should act. |
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I absolutely adore Frank! What an excellent man admitting mistake/ misinterpretation and trying to appease everyone. He is quite an inspiration to all of us FIRST Students and an excellent example of the great dedication to fairness that FIRST tries to embody. Gracious Professionalism all around. :) Makes me happy.
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