2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

What could FIRST stand to improve upon?

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Free corn dogs. Especially now that 254 won. ;)

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

inb4thegame*


But in all seriousness, I didn't have much of a problem with "Make It Loud" until Champs. Some of the performances as part of the "make it loud" campaign just seemed awkward, even via webcast. I'd imagine it was more awkward in person.

"Make It Loud" also seems somewhat misguided at this point-I love it as a rally cry for spreading the word of FIRST, but what is the point of it? Get celebrities mentioning FIRST? Get 'non-traditional' companies involved in FIRST? Tweet #MakeItLoud? It's a great phrase, but to me it just needs some direction.


*for the record I like this game

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

It seemed most of the reffing issues and problems with penalties were absent from Worlds (partly due to them thankfully not calling G28 in the manner described in the driver meeting), but certainly many of the regional competitions suffered from poor reffing and large numbers of matches determined by penalties. While I think Aerial Assist was a fantastic game, future games absolutely must be easier to referee.

I don't have any real complaints other than that; everything about this year was pretty great.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Something small that I would really like to see (and I have no idea why they didn't do it this year) is clarification on the rules of the Dean's List interview, and a better feedback sheet. Currently, there is no mention of the time limit in the Dean's List section of the Administration Manual, and the feedback sheet was the most minimal thing I've ever seen. At least put in a "you can improve on" section!

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Similarly, in regards to Dean's List, I was very unhappy with the way it was handled/done in district systems/the inconsistencies between different regions in how they determined Finalists.*


*I'm unaware of what FiM or PNW did, so I'm going off the differences in DL in MAR and NEFIRST

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

The entire Make it Loud portion of closing ceremonies was very cringeworthy.... I muted by live feed several times because of it. I'd much rather we have some video or information being played about all of the teams on Einstein and maybe presenting the alliances one at a time to hype the matches, instead of going between random song performances and disconnected awards presentations.

Also, I think the closing ceremonies this time took a similar amount of time to last years. I thought the whole point of moving the majority of awards to divisions was to reduce the closing ceremonies time?

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

As a dean list nominee I can agree with you on that! The feedback form was absolutely useless. I wish they would make it more like Chairmans!

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Overzealous seat savers aren't going away, unfortunately. If you want good seats for your team at Einstein, you'd better have at least half of your team there. It's ridiculous how some teams send their parents over to the stands with a bunch of spirit gear and lay it out on a whole section of seats. I had more than one poor interaction with some of these people pre-closing ceremonies.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I will say that by week 6 the game really did get better, and the elims were some of the best I have seen in first, but one thing I do miss was the end game. It was exciting for a few matches but I felt like with about 45 seconds left in most matches you could tell which way the match was going to go. I hope to see the end game back in future years.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Chairmans feedback forms at regionals. Wish they would scan them and email to the team contact. I never remember to pick it up at pit admin

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

In 2014, getting a quality webcast is apparently a hard thing to do.

Except it's not. Please fix this. Baseline HD stream requirements for all events. Include equipment/connectivity/staffing in budget or find a team/volunteers who can handle it.

Multi-cam setups are ideal for the big screens at the events, but for online, a single full-field view is optimal. Perhaps offer both?

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Not having separate scorekeepers for a game like this was a huge mistake. Whoever made the call that the same 5-6 refs could watch for fouls and keep score at the same time obviously did not actually try to do it themselves.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Having one game piece per alliance.

Now, on a championship level, having one game piece was perfect, it created close and exciting matches (how about those Einstein rounds!). However, at a regional level, it created a slow and frustrating game, especially during qualification rounds, the con outweighs the pro here. There are a lot more regionals than championships.

EDIT:
This please.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

No endgame. The game was basically over after the first half; there wasn't really any way to bounce back because you would have to radically modify your strategy in order to start closing a point gap.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I disagree - did you watch the elimination rounds from each of the Championship fields? The finals from each of the divisions were awesome - as were the Semi and finals from Einstein. This game was designed for the elims/finals for Regionals and the Champs.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I agree - 'Make it loud' is more difficult without direction.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

That's true, but it would certainly make some of the regionals easier to watch. Champs is pretty unique, and it will always look cool anyway.

The large points-per-ball helped with building suspense though.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I agree, the livestream was pretty bad this year - though it did lead to some humorous "broken record" moments during the pre-Einstein speeches...

"Year after year---year after year---year after year---" :yikes:

But yeah, given the combined resources of NASA and FIRST, a HD stream shouldn't be hard to do, even for 8 fields (some of which aren't even running at the same time).

Also, the district system should probably be expanded further. California seems like an apt target for a new district considering all the regionals hosted there, or maybe the Southwest US (AZ, TX, NM, OK) given that Arizona is growing to two regionals next year and Texas has several regionals already.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I don't necessarily think this is a good thing, though. Most of the general public isn't at Championships; the public usually watches matches at the regional level. A majority of the feedback from the bystanders I asked, including family and friends I dragged to competitions, was that AA was hard to understand and a bit boring. Explaining the penalties to bystanders was difficult; this is especially true earlier in the season.

Most matches in AA, on a regional level, were decided by heavy defense or tough penalties. Rather than teams racking up big numbers and showing off their potential, most games felt like more of a grind. I just don't think AA was very public-friendly or fun. While the Einstein field was exciting, I think that a game needs to be accessible AND ENTERTAINING to the public. An end game helps in this regard.

Also, to jump on the bandwagon, HQ Livestreams please! c:

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I wholeheartedly agree - to get people's interest, you kinda have to turn the year's game into an elevator speech. AA does not work terribly well for that while still keeping the depth of the game (like the scoring and penalties) intact.

Now that I think about it, perhaps that's why there was no endgame - the referees were too busy monitoring scoring and penalties for another aspect to be added to the game in a manageable way.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

It is sad that teams have to leave their current field before the division finals are over to secure seats on Einstein. It leaves very few spectators for the end. Even though seats are reserved for the Einstein teams, the teams that get knocked out late in eliminations don't get that priviledge (especially if you are the last division to finish).

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

A full field shot on the webcasts should be very easy to implement. It's frustrating because from what of I have seen, the videos on TBA come from the webcast, so if they go to a close up, people who weren't there may never get to see what happened on the other side of the field.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

FIRST as a community was not ready for this game. The floor of the competition was far too many floors down from the ceiling. It created many instances where some of the best teams in the world simply struggled to get the W entirely because of their schedule. I can't imagine how painful that must have been for the students, parents and mentors on those teams.

But, this isn't just all on FIRST. It's on us as a community. We've made great strides in raising the floor of competitiveness, via initiatives like EWCP, Robot In 3 Days, etc, but we can do better. As a community, we probably could have done better with our neighbors to help them actually contribute to matches, rather than create hard feelings because a team who lost 20 days to snow couldn't hold a ball.

Everyone can complain about how 'the refs did this' or the 'rules said that' or whatever they want to say. We've all aired our dirty laundry on that several times, and I'm quite confident FIRST is listening. They've shown (especially Frank,) a lot more transparency this year, along with frequently responding to the community. They get it, and I'm sure they'll improve upon these issues.

FIRST could definitely stand to improve the inspection process and training. I can't count the number of times this year that I had to remind fellow inspectors that they are the first line of officials that a team meets at an event, and they have a responsibility to provide good customer service. It's been 23 seasons, and we're still hearing horror stories related to inspection. Also, the lack of no formal reinspection process reared it's head this year in Florida. In hindsight, it's kind of weird that we spend so much time documenting the initial robot inspection, and then hardly do anything to keep up with teams at the events. I look forward to this changing next year, hopefully with the new tablet system pioneered in MAR.

FIRST has their work cut out for them, but I'm confident that they're up to the task.

- Nick

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

When 27 was announced as the newest member of the Hall of Fame, they were seated way up in the nosebleed section, having been eliminated very late in a nail-biter on Archimedes. Their video provided just enough time for them to make the long trek down to the floor, to their correct seats for the rest of the show.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I agree about the confusion that AA can create in non-FIRST spectators, and even in students! There were a lot of rules and elements to keep track of conceptually, but when it got on the field, the game was usually slow and hard to understand if you hadn't poured over the rules for six weeks (I'm not saying all matches were boring, of course).

Also, it's kinda bad when many people agree that the Dean's List interview was shoddy. I was disappointed about how carelessly they treated this award, especially when it's treated in such high regard. It's no Chairman's, I agree, but it's important.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

This game was, quite honestly, too hard. They made it so that if you wanted to put up a decent score, all three robots on an alliance had to be able to manipulate a 2ft diameter ball reasonably well. And one of the robots had to be able to launch it a good distance in order to make the match very interesting. Those are expectations which many teams just weren't ready for, and I don't think they will be for at least another few years.

Going a bit more generally, there was not enough forethought in the designing of this year's game and game manual. The examples of this have already been beaten to death, but we need to find a solution so that this doesn't happen again. Something needs to change about how the game is designed/evaluated. Maybe bringing some people with more experience on teams into the GDC, or maybe just bringing them in a couple of times when the game is in its final stages to point out the flaws. Some sort of simulation for how the game will go down would be great, but I'm not sure how they would implement it. I'm not sure what it would be, but something needs to happen.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I really enjoyed this game for the forced cooperation between teams, however I am sad to see how negative it made everyone towards teams who just were not top tier. It must be very frustrating for a top performing team to see their season end because of a schedule with teams who could not do much to manipulate the game piece, but it is also sad (and probably not all that inspiring) to see struggling teams receiving a lot of blame on outlets such as this.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

In all reality, they could purchase go pros and the poles with a decent capture card and stream through twitch. You can have HD and with the fish eye we actually get a good view. Now add input to show scoring and it would be all set.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I wouldn't stream thru Twitch though, too many ads...

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I'm speaking from the perspective of a Michigan volunteer here:

Being the first year of Dean's List interviews, we expected challenges along the way. Overall, the interview process went well and allowed us to add extra depth to how we assess nominated students. It also gave these students a moment to shine. I have a feeling that FIRST won't be getting rid of this process anytime soon.

For improvements, I'm only aware of how Michigan events operated and what we need to do better. I already know we need to improve how we communicate to teams about what to expect, and where their students will interview. That's something we didn't have established prior to March, but is on our radar for next year.

Scheduling will likely be a persistent challenge. So many of these extraordinary students are drive team members, or Chairman's presenters, or have other responsibilities at the event. Most events adopted a flexible sign-up schedule to work around these issues, but we're looking into how to make it better.

Providing feedback, as simple as it seems, is a rather challenging process. It takes time and thought to write good feedback, and we don't want to "sound generic." Time was a challenge this year, with the Dean's List interviews and the addition of multiple-event Chairman's presentations. Again, this is something that we'll be better prepared for next year.

If you have additional feedback specific to this process, please PM me and let me know. I'm working with our Michigan volunteers to provide feedback to FIRST about how to make the Dean's List process stronger for next year, and would like to hear perspectives from other members of the FIRST community.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Good point. Maybe time for first to make their own webcast hub.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Please. Or at least make all of the streams mobile friendly not just the Nasa TV one which cut off in the middle of the most exciting part on Einstein...

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

And input the event audio instead of the camera's mic. The FiM steams have good video, but the audio is just terrible.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Considering that lawyers troll Youtube and have had some of the videos taken down for copyright infractions this might be a good thing.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Maybe just the MC'c mics then? So that people watching know what is going on.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

This is exactly what we did at the Lone Star regional. Go Pro on a painter's pole into a capture card, overlay from scoring table into a USB adapter, and open source broadcast software.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

A few people have said this, and I think it's a great idea: FIRST should bring in the various 72 hour robot groups to beta test the game. Give the GDC some very useful feedback from some very experienced people, and give the 72 hour robot teams time to produce nice polished videos, preferably about the brainstorming and prototyping process. Most teams struggle with those parts of the design process.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I agree with the rest of you on the point of game play. I am a member on an FTC team, so I am not very intimate with AA, but I went to watch some matches at the STL regional, and honestly, even the finals matches weren't all that exciting. We left after watching about six of them.

But on the other hand, we had nothing to do before the finale, so our team watched the Einstein matches, and that was probably one of the most exciting things I've ever seen. Watching 254's 3 ball autonomous work flawlessly was an inspiration within itself. I was on the edge of my seat and yelling the whole time.

This game only works at high levels where everyone is capable of doing most everything on the field, but when that happens. God it's inspirational.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Early in my career I had a boss who liked to come into the lab and try to break the stuff that his engineers were working on -- he would drive our motors and circuits harder than we expected, to see how robust they were. Often he would find failure modes we had not anticipated.

FIRST could find some people like that in the FRC community, independent of the GDC, to try and break the game. I think Paul Copioli has already volunteered to do that for free.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I've thought for years that the GDC should release the game to a few groups with prior FRC experience to develop the same questions that all teams do in the first two or three days of meetings.

At least half the Q&A issues could be addressed prior to release that way, and teams could get the manual as it would normally stand after the first update or two. It just stuns me that they released this years game with wording that made it possible to do stuff like truss and catch your own ball. How was that ever not identified as something every single team would identify as a possible sneaky tactic?

I think the GDC is just too close to the game as they develop it and can't/don't think of all the ways that teams will come up with to break it.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Twitch doesnt run ads, the streamer chooses to run the ads. Twitch is the perfect place to stream events.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

While sitting in the last rows of the first level of the seating on Einstein, the lights illuminating the audience pointed directly at our eyes, which was painful. I'm hoping that FIRST will choose a different method, of any, to accomplish the same task next year.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Crowd control could use a couple of dedicated traffic directors at specific spots in the pits. The robot paths to and from the fields were clearly marked, but the clear markings were on the floor and often couldn't be seen through people standing or walking nearby. FTC teams in particular kept wheeling their robots through the pedestrian walkway along the south wall.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

FTC won't be a traffic problem next year but additional big robots in the tunnel will cause gridlock.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

A lot did not go right this year. This was a difficult year for FIRST and definitely something we need to learn from and grow past.

The design of this game, specifically the rules / referring, was not well executed. The GDC seemed to adopt a formula where they create a concept of a game, think of all of the holes that could be punched in it, and "patch" the game with numerous penalties to try and shape the outcome the way they want it. The results were mixed at best. Some penalties left no room for subjectivity and forced referees to penalize teams harshly for inconsequential actions. Other penalties were so subjective that regionals were decided on how that particular head ref felt about that rule that day. As problems were identified, FIRST would fix some and completely ignore others. To this day, you can still damage a robot and end up with a net gain in points. You can still be penalized heavily for partially but not completely breaking. What constitutes "possession" varies wildly event to event.

To make matters worse, the way refereeing was handled was poor at best. This is not to say anything bad about the referees themselves; they did a fine job with what they had to work with in my experience. FIRST just did not think about how the jobs would actually work. In my opinion, what FIRST should have done is had one referee dedicated to tracking the ball of each alliance, recording possessions and zones. The other referees would then be able to completely focus on the other interactions in the game (ideally one interaction ref for each zone plus a head ref). In practice, you had four referees doing double duty as scorekeeper as well as rules arbiter, and consistency of possessions and penalties both suffered as a result.

One problem I do want to touch on, but may have difficulty putting into words well. This is not intended as a call out of any specific person or event, and I'm thankful to not have much if any first hand experience with this sort of thing. This year, there's been an alarming number of reports of teams and volunteers at odds with each other. Among the things I've heard: inspectors telling teams "I'm not the guy you want to p**s off" when asking simple rules questions, referees and event staff routinely making un-challengeable calls without even consulting the teams affected to get their side of the story, judges accusing teams of being "mentor built" when a specific student can't instantly answer a specific question... The list sadly goes on. I don't know how to fix this, or if I just happened to see and hear of it a lot more this year than others, but a lot of volunteers seem to be treating the teams as sneaky enemies looking for any way to game the system. This is bad - we all need to remember that we volunteers are all here to *serve* these teams, and to make the experience of everyone collectively as high quality and fair as possible.

The appeal process for calls needs to be overhauled. Some people and calls simply cannot be appealed in the current rules - for example, no one can ever override the LRI or head referee. These people are human too, and inadvertently make mistakes, and there's nothing teams can do about it other than hope the FTA is calling HQ or something. Even in that situation, twice this year alone teams have dealt with volunteers misrepresenting the problem over the phone to FIRST HQ to get the call they appear to be looking for. (This isn't new to this year, by the way - ask Wisconsin teams in 2010 about power tools...) I recognize life is not fair and that things will not always go the way they should, but some part of this system has to change.

The game design was not bad for high level eliminations; incredibly watchable. However, it was a nightmare for qualifications. Seeding was by and large influenced by strength of schedule heavily this year. In other games you could perform so well that a lack of great partners wasn't a death sentence, but in this game you'll find yourself in situations where there's just nothing you can do at all to win the match. I think this is the inherent down side to a "single game piece" game, which is a shame as single game pieces are much more watchable than a flurry of projectiles can be to the average spectator.

Finally, there is no good reason that fields do not come with webcasting equipment at this point. A GoPro, a fisheye lens, a pole, and a computer. Instant full field view for the Internet. For all the talk of "making it loud", FIRST should stress the importance of broadcasting events to the point that webcasting equipment is a part of the field as much as any other part of it. In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't even cost that much.

I'm sure I have more that I'm leaving out but I'll leave it at this for now. Overall this year was not so great on FIRST's end of things.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

To expand on this -

Its difficult to 'make it loud' with the webcasts we have running the way the are right now. If I tell some potential sponsor, friend, or even my grandma about this insane competition I'm a part of where robots shoot frisbees or pass balls and score, then I show them a webcast, its not exactly exciting. Michigan probably has the best example of what should be considered the norm. The state of the current webcasts are a turn-off for anyone other then mentors/students that already know whats going on.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Let's see...

-Aerial Assist was a great game dogged by implementation details. I don't think we have to elaborate further on refs, missed assists, fouls, and the like.
-FIRST really needs to put signs up at the key venue entrances: "Come on in! No reserved seating." It was better this year than most, but at crowded venues it's still an issue.
-While we're talking signs, signs pointing teams to the proper sections for Championship fields would be nice. I still have to peep into the seating portals to get my bearings, and I've gone all four years it's been in St. Louis.
-No free corn dogs! :P
-Championship inspection time on Wednesday felt all too brief, but then we were making some significant improvements. Grain of salt there.
-Maybe not a hard negative, but in 2014 we're getting awful used to smartphones. I'd love to see FIRST adopt Spyder or Megaphone (or both!) and get them a better pipeline for data. Or better, get that pipeline out to students to create better ways to display the data.
-I heard mild frustrations over the inspection spec from others, though we weren't as affected. I do think "inflated to size not pressure" as in other years is a better way to go.
-The fewer things that go "to the booth" for rulings from Manchester, the better. It seems like those calls tend to have the worst outcomes (though I may have a skewed sample).

I'm sure some other things will hit me when I've had a full night's sleep, but these are what come to mind right now.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Also, mobile compatible is a must for webcasts, some of us want to watch in school but we can't get through the firewall on our school network.

I disagree with the above. If the LRI or Head Ref aren't labeled the "final authority" the position is meaningless and any team can get a call to Manchester for anything from bumper rules to a missed possession call.

What we need are people in these positions who are willing accept input from their respective crews, not shy to consult HQ when they are unsure of something, and not too proud to overturn their rulings. The people in the building are in the best position to make most tough judgment calls.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I wasn't at CMP sadly(One year there'll be a chance for me to volunteer or mentor a team) but I was at VEX Worlds. I love the webcasts for VEX Worlds and think they're incredibly high-quality. I also like how they have reserved sections for teams and have RECF officials and Anaheim OC event staff enforcing it.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

You have a good point. That said, I think we could find a medium between absolute authority and getting every call appealed constantly. Perhaps some sort of system to reserve these reviews for extraordinary circumstances. At this point, the only people that can initiate a "booth review" are the regional staff, so HQ rarely hears the team's side of the story or point. I think this is what led to the issues at Orlando and SVR.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Since Google is a big sponsor, maybe FIRST could partner with Youtube to allow regionals to be streamed on a consistent video network (that provides options to do HD with minimal Ads!).

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Seriously though, that would be a great way for them to sponsor FIRST, considering that it would essentially be a drop in the bucket for them.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

How do you get past by all the copyrighted songs? I dont want silent FRC streams.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Yeah... Plus I figure they could get the equipment fairly easily (if they don't already have some they could lend out)... Although I do see a possible issue with their internet connections (some of the networks would have a hard time supporting HD feeds, while others could have a separate stream for each cam -- like BuildBlitz did).

Glad to see it just wasn't me & my crappy school internet connection :P Even the NASA TV stream was doing that too (which kinda surprised me).

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Work with youtube? They've only muted like 3-4 of my 100+ videos I uploaded from the KC regional this year.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Just stream the MC microphones.
Any decent audio mixer should have multiple outputs in addition to the main mix. Send a feed with just the MC mics to the steaming equipment, and the full audio to the main mix.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

First Choice. Not the idea, not the selection - both are great. I'll even excuse the issues experienced with 2 site crashes (never did see that report on why, though). But the "OMG Who is faster to the trigger" aspect, making me have to be at a computer at that very instant. It was good that once you 'had' the item it couldn't be taken away, but I think a better system could be devised.

The game, specifically the inconsistent refereeing caused by high referee workload. WAY too much going on to follow easily. I understand that it couldn't really be automated, but way too many matches were won or lost by referee actions.

I am very much against the de-facto extension of the build season by the 45 pound rule (that's a whole robot!). Repair parts are one thing, essentially unlimited upgrades create an uneven playing field for resource-poor teams. In the Crate days, your first event was where you got to see your robot again, so it really really needed to be finished on Ship Day. Not anymore.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I have 2 view points this year 1 was being an alum of a team who made it to Newton, while my other one was being a "mentor" of another team here at my college. This year we finished our second best in team history (26th at KC). I believe this game REALLY benefited those mediocre teams, while hurting those powerhouse teams (like the one I'm an alum of) where they were paired with teams that REALLY hurt them -- although Titanium had a SWEET strategy that I absolutely LOVED where they passed to every team.

The rules DEFINITELY need to be set in stone & all calls need to written down to be set in stone to allow for consistency.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I would like to see the Dean's List regional/district interviews held on Thursday rather then on Friday.

This year 1114 nominated both of our drivers for the award, and it was extremely hard to get a interview time slot while we weren't going to conflict with any matches. We also needed to hope that matches were held on time, which they were not (as the scorekeeper I will take some blame for that).

I know that judges don't usually come in on Thursday, but finding a few that will come in Thursday will be very helpful for the drivers being nominated.

- Aaron

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

This year we got a full field setup, though low resolution, of North Star up and running using a GoPro with a wide angle lens. Since then we've done a little research into ways to make this cheaper and more portable. The GoPro (or similar) provides up to a 170 degree field of view with a special lens, which can see the full field from only 3 feet away. It also streams in HD over its HDMI output, but this requires an HDMI capture card, bringing the price tag up to around $500 for camera and capture equipment. We ended up finding this camera with a 120 degree field of view (full field coverage from 15 feet away) and HD streaming ability over USB, all for just $40. We use the powerful open source OBS streaming software, which supports chromakeying for the FMS scoreboard overlay, multiple layers for multiple video inputs, selecting between audio channels, and many other options. OBS also supports most standard streaming hosts: we have so far used it with Justin.TV with success.

While we haven't tested any of this new equipment yet, we hope to in the offseason and next season. There are also several others (1678, FiM, etc.) who have developed their own full field streaming. I am hoping in the next year we can develop some standard set of equipment and software that could possibly be shipped with each FRC field and staffed by event volunteers in order to make HD full field coverage a reality for every event.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

1. Championship webcast was pretty bad

2. Pedestal: Perhaps it didn't need to be automated. Perhaps game should have paused and given it time to light if it became an obvious problem. Would make for less replays.

3. Replays were (in my experience) handled poorly.
a. I want a ruling from the GDC on whether replays are supposed to happen only when the winning/losing of the match is affected, or just any time there's a field fault.
b. If theres an obvious fault, stop the match. No need to have the robots go through all that wear before telling them to start over.
c. When there's a replay, let the teams know ASAP, not immediately before the match when their already set up.

4.Refs/scorekeepers overworked. :deadhorse:
a.Rules were super subjective
i.Called differently not just between events but between quals/elims, and even sides of the field.
b. Too many things to watch: Bring in more refs

5. That thing with the balls bouncing out in week 1. That ruined team's seasons who could only afford one event, and it happened to be week 1. I think some sort of beta test of the game is a really good idea.

6. Low level play was very boring. Herding needed a more defined, easier to do definition, and it could have become a legitimate strategy, making low-level scores at least rise.

7. Not nearly enough calls for damage inside frame perimeter. Those bent cylinders I saw in the first few weeks were really scary.

8. Game, though fun, was too complex. I could not explain to my friends not in robotics what I was spending so much of my life on. It was hard for spectators, and even teams to grasp. "You get points for that(assisting)?", "You can cross the field?", are some things I heard from alliance member drive teams. Maybe there should be like a smaller, even less lawyery manual with just super basic rules, so drive team can read it without reading a book.

9. Dean's list interviews were a good addition, but it was very unclear what was going to be done there. It varied from event to event as well. Maybe there needs to be a defined set of questions, or maybe it should be asking questions to clarify the essay. Whatever it is, it should be predefined. Also, yeah, drive team and dean's list interview was hard. Super stressful.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I have to disagree on this one. Due to the bad weather this year, our team lost 10+ days during the build period. The 45lbs was crucial to us actually being able to have a shooter this year. I'm actually really glad that FIRST was able to notice this problem, and address it.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

- Human player - at regional events some teams were not prepared, had not even identified a human player at the start of match play on Friday. This doesn't require special technical skills or manufacturing equipment. Coaches - read the manual and prepare the kids. Experienced teams - when you ask teams if they need help with anything, don't forget to talk to their human player.

-Computer access at events, especially champs - having a few kiosks with internet access available for quick use would be very helpful. Had a couple of occasions where adults on the team just needed to access something for work and a smartphone wouldn't do the trick. In one instance we stopped in the business center, but having a few kiosks scattered around would be great.

-How do you notify FIRST of issues at events - for instance, on Archimedes after lunch on Saturday something changed with the sound. Became very tough to hear our field but Newton was very loud. Nice message periodically on the screens would have been helpful - "Have an issue during event text XXXXX or tweet @XXXX"

-Agree with the comments on playtesting the game by select folks ahead of time. But also wonder about collaboration with some of the folks in the community who are doing so much with game data and statistics, etc. Hope their insights are being or can be leveraged in some way - resources like FRC Spyder and FRC Mega and The Blue Alliance are such a help to teams and mentors. I hope FIRST already has or finds ways to tap into their creativity to strengthen and extend both sides of the equation.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

In the crate days, we still had at least 30 lbs each year of withholding. In fact, in the last crate year (2010) we had 60(!) lbs, due to poor weather in the Northeast. Repair parts and upgrade parts are identical for the purposes of the weight limit brought in to an event.

A multiple event model is the one that gives lower-resource teams the chance to learn something from competition and come back and improve. The huge success of district models spreading across the country is a testament to this. However, if there is no opportunity to continue development after bag and between multiple regionals or district events based on lessons learned, teams can't learn these lessons that make multiple events so valuable.

It's hard to debate that the most successful programs, both in terms of robot performance and in terms of student and community impact, run year round. The 6 week build forces mentors, students, and other team supporters to burn themselves out in a short period of time to beat a fictitious deadline.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Practice fields at regionals really need to be more to spec. The one at Midwest didn't even have a correct auto line marked. The one in Milwaukee had too short a ceiling to really do truss shots. The low goals were not nearly robust enough to support the strategy where you ram into them to line up.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Actually, back in MY crate days, we had unlimited and no withholding.

Replacement parts were pretty much unlimited. Upgrade parts were limited, I forget just how. However, the TIME you had to make 'em all was limited (at least for a few years) by this thing called a Fix-It window. Think a district event unbag time without robot access. (And yes, folks complained about the fix-it windows.)


My biggest negative that I haven't seen yet: Catching was undervalued by the GDC. Another 5-10 points, and I think the game could have been even MORE exciting. As it was, very few teams even had the capability showing, and even fewer tried it.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

While we are talking about streaming - can the default score screen please be updated so the remaining time is legible to those without a telescope? I think there is more than enough room to put another large time box between the red and blue score boxes.

Also adding a large format LED count down clock visible to drivers behind the wall (but not in their way) would be very useful. In years past I have seen robots ready to score but stuck with a game piece because time expired (instead of the hail mary shot I want to see!)

-matto-

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

There is one. There are 4 LED displays on each end of the field, visible from the other end of the field. Three are team numbers. One, as close to the middle as possible, is a countdown clock--auto, teleop, timeout if there is one called.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

That is true, but not what I was going for (very hard to glance at while driving). I was thinking it would sit on the surface where you set your driver station or down low somewhere on the plexiglass wall facing into each driver station (6 total - 1 per team).

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

We need better standings publishing.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

This is just my opinion, but I like the clocks at the end of the fields. I can look at them without having to take my eyes off the field; it's a smaller change to look at the robot, across the field, then back at the robot than robot-driver station-robot.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Definitely going to second this, teams should be able to know match results and rankings at any time (Especially at Championships).

FMS/FTP Problems are painful.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Sort of related: Anyone know what happened to Spyder for Archimedes on Friday night? Somehow about 100 of the matches got deleted and there were only 22 teams in the division... Kind of threw me off.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

The song they played ("you're beautiful..." or something) to introduce Lynn Tilton during the Championship closing ceremony was unacceptable.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Well I think Spyder just pulls data from the respective event websites, so I don't think it's usually anything on Spyder's end when things like this happen. I noticed something similar with Newton sometime on Friday. I think this may have been after the FMS stopped automatically updating scores, so I'm guessing they reset the system, and it took time to repopulate the data. I noticed that teams started appearing again in the standings after they played their next match.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Not a definitive negative, but something noticed to pass along.

Chocolate by the 1975, was one of the standardized stingers for GP Award at Regional and District events this year.

While I didn't have a huge issue with it, several people had mentioned to me they were surprised a song with the subject matter contained in that song was played at a FIRST event, especially for the GP Award.

Hopefully when the stinger list is set next year, someone else form HQ can just double check to make sure songs don't have meanings and content that aren't immediately obvious.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Ummm, that is why there is a coach on the drive team and one of that persons primary responsibilities.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I have one more random negative I really want to discuss.

Why are practice day matches from 10 AM to 4 PM??? They should be 12 to 6 PM instead.

In my five seasons on 2791, we have never, ever been to a practice match before noon. Regardless of how few or how many upgrades we had, getting situated and then inspected would always be the first thing on our minds. Maybe a half dozen robots actually make it to the field before noon.

On top of that, practice matches end super early, at 4 or so! This means teams doing serious upgrades maybe get one match. Then from 4-7, when your robot is *actually* ready to go, you can do nothing. The practice field is already full (and depending on the event may already be full for the NEXT DAY), your robot is ready to go but you have nowhere to use it, so you can either twiddle your thumbs in the pits or go home way early. If we shifted the matches 12-6, field volunteers would be working for the same amount of time, more teams would make it on the field, and everyone would get more practice.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I can get behind this.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

The total lack of feedback from World Chairman's submissions. To not get any feedback at all is a total let down. How is a team supposed to improve when they don't get the feedback needed to see where that improvement needs to happen?

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

As a person who spends time in the stands -

Can we please, please, please have a larger font for the match number?
Can it be the same size as the score?

If you are on the field, you can sometimes see the match number on the display. If you are in the stands, you need a pair of binoculars.

I know this request has been made before - thanks for listening to it again!

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

While I personally strongly dislike that song, I don't think it's any worse than the majority of garbage that gets played at competitions. I did expect Einstein to have a bit more class though.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Most of the issues were already covered, but I'll post a few more that bugged me:

1. The bumper rules, specifically the requirement that it be solid "hardwood". I had one rookie team that almost had to run to Home Depot to build all new bumpers because their 1x6 backing was solid pine and not oak. The LRI stepped in and approved their bumpers. I think that just mandating that the backing be solid wood, and not particle board or plywood, would be sufficient.

2. As others have said I would appreciate better webcasting. The overall match presentation could use a facelift, including better visibility about time remaining and the match number.

3. The issues with the game and refs have been well covered. I think the GDC will take this stuff into account next year.

I agree. That 45 pounds was the difference between my team having a rolling chassis and a functional (if poorly designed) catapult arm.

This is a good idea.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Actually, the rules do not quote "hardwood".

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I noticed an unfortunate trend at the championship of people coming to and from the stands while matches are in play. I unfortunately lost my cool and yelled at a team in front of us after it happened almost every single match and having already asked twice for them to sit down while our team was on the field playing. It makes it very difficult to watch matches, let alone scout teams when people are constantly stand up talking to people and walking up and down the steps. I thought this was a common courtesy know across FIRST but I guess I was wrong.

Please talk to your team about being courteous to the teams around you, wait until between matches to move around in the stands. And if you absolutely have to get up during a match do so as quickly as possible and don't stop to talk to someone along the way.

To the team I yelled at, I apologize.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

As BigJ notes, the rule says plywood or solid robust wood. And, in terms of the application, I think plywood is the preferable material. Unlike a board, the plywood doesn't have a continuous grain so it's less likely to split on impact. Oak is way too expensive a material to mandate team use. I'd be interested to know who got the interpretation that it needed to be a hard (like oak, mahogany, walnut, etc) wood. Save that stuff for your nice tables at home and use plywood or OSB on the robot. IMHO.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

OSB is not suitable since it does not hold screws or staples very well at all.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

This probably isn't the right place for discussing bumper materials, but I wanted to jump in because there are a variety of reasons to not use plywood-- chief being weight and material availability. While plywood is cheap and abundant, sponsors can come through in interesting ways, including donating a bunch of wood to a team. If you have free stuff it's probably more prudent for most teams to make use of that first. Also, if you are targeting full weight bumpers, heavier wood can help you get there without violating any rules :rolleyes:.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Can we NOT NOT NOT have a tiebreaker be something that is so subjective and prone to error as penalty points? Obviously a penalty created the tie in the first place, so why in the world would it be what breaks the tie?

I know, the assumption is that one team played a "cleaner match" than the other. However, given the increased number of ways to earn a foul this year, the large percentage that even one foul counts for and the huge number of frustrated teams who were affected by inconsistent calls (I'm not dissing the refs, there's only so many things they can see and do at once, and if they are half as prone to making mistakes as I am...) it seems like it would make more sense to have assist points be the tiebreaker. That is the mission of this game, after all.

Otherwise they would have named it Penal Desist

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

Honestly, I would rather we just get rid of tiebreakers. They were added in reaction to 2010, a low scoring game that caused a lot of ties, but we have never had a game nearly as conducive to tying as that game. Tie breakers just put arbitrary emphasis on certain parts of the game. For example, this year's was assist points, which effectively meant whichever team scored less in auto won the match? Weird. I'd rather we just replay the 1-2 elims matches per competition that come down to a tie than use tiebreakers to declare a winner.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

While I agree that there definitely needs to be more practice time at regionals (especially since pits close so late), I think they should still start early since it incentivizes teams to actually finish their robot during build season.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

This is true for most of the match, but when the coach needs to shout an order to their driveteam during those last five seconds it's not realistic. My team had a quarterfinal match in which I was counting down from ten for our drivers, but we had to change our strategy from shooting to trussing with five seconds left, and they shot early without lining because I wasn't able to count from five and also tell them to truss instead of shoot. We lost that match by six points.

It's not an excuse, we lost that match fair and square, I'm just saying that it really would be nice to have the last 5-10 seconds counted down by LEDs.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I personally loathe practice day (I have PTSD from the word "Filler") but I do think Practice Day would be more effective if the field was open for teams to practice til the pits close. Every team should get a chance to practice and shutting the field down at 4 makes no sense.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I like this shift, but it made me think of something else.

At the two MAR districts my team went to, we didn't have a 'practice day', but rather a load-in/unbag/inspect/maybe-practice night. We're allowed to get to the venue ~3, and can unbag and inspect, then could practice from 5-10pm. (Or maybe it was 9 and pits closed at 10.)

At that point, why not just go back to having a traditional practice day like we used to at regionals? We're already there for 7+ hours. It was shifted WAY too late, and my students were exhausted by the end of the night. Falling asleep in the pit exhausted. At another district event where I was volunteer coordinator, the volunteers weren't able to leave until almost 11, and then they were expected to be back at 7. It was great to have practice time, but at the cost of sleep for volunteers and teams? Maybe time to seek alternative solutions.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

We should be getting rid of Practice Day Match schedules.
Just make it a filler. Once you get inspected, you get in line and practice all you want.
It was crazy at our first event that they wouldnt let us go back on the field during practice day in consecutive matches.
The very next match NO ONE was on the field.:mad:

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

I'll probably post more later, but one thing thats been bugging me since champs is the shortened team intros we saw on einstien. I know they are trying to keep things moving but I think if you get there your team deserves to be recognized in each match. Also the fourth bots teams should have been brought out for the handshake.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

That's extreme.
My policy is to try to get full matches.
I too think the schedules need to go. They cause more trouble than it's worth.

Re: 2014 Lessons Learned: The Negative
 

In 2009, the long and detailed intros were incredible and inspiring. I LOVED in particular the way the relationships between the teams were discussed and when they had played with and against each other. Ever since, intros have been kept fairly short and only trivial information gets discussed (awards won that year, if that). I know there is a time crunch but those combined 5 total minutes aren't where we should be cutting time down.