Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

I'm not sure why or how a kinect/webcam makes autonomous more competitive (I assume you mean driver station based control).

I also generally disagree with the sentiment that hot goal targeting due to timing was an intractable problem. At our second regional we spoke to the field team after our first match (where we missed hot goal detection) and they indicated that the reflective tape indicator was taking some finite time to flip over. We re-timed our code at the competition and didn't miss hot after that - using only robot based webcam and image processing.

To me, that seems like an absolutely plausible "real-life" engineering type problem, and I thought it was great learning experience.

I don't disagree with the use of kinect after the ruling - but to call it "autonomous" and to use driver station webcam/kinect seems to be not in the spirit of the word autonomous (but I'm not arguing it was inappropriate given the rule clarifications). I would have preferred if it remained more autonomous.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

I don't really think this is the case. Think of the Cheesy Poofs for example, a team that really has mechanical, electrical, and software systems that are second to none. I'd bet that they'd still win a lot of matches if they replaced their code with something hacked together overnight, and they'd still probably win if I decided I'd rewire their robot as a surprise (assuming I didn't screw anything up on purpose). But on the other hand, if you took their same code and electronics and put it on a janky JVN catapult, I'd bet they'd win matches, but not as many.

In FRC, you can win from just having awesome mechanisms, even with only so- so wiring and code. I'll give you that poor code and wiring can lose matches, but you sure can't win without well designed mechanisms.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

I voted no. But I am also extremly torn here. Autonomous is designed for 0 driver control whatsoever, wether it direct or indirect. Using the kinect or CheesyVision druing auto seems to bend the rules a bit. Although by the way they are written it is allowed, it kinda takes away from the definition of autonomous.
I'll amit my team used something very similar to CheesyVision at champs after our camera crapped out on us. At the time I was all for this, probably because I was so excited we were doing well and I wanted to keep it up.
On the other hand the use of this created extremly exciting stand-offs, namely Einstein finals. 1114 and 254 stand-offs were exhilerating to watch and I don't know that that could happen with purely pre-coded instrusctions.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

I don't think it should be allowed. Although these systems were technically legal and a really smart way of using the specifics of the rules to increase a robot's ability, I think it diminishes the idea of an "autonomous period". It's no longer autonomous, it is being controlled by a human, even if indirectly.
I can't hold the use of this strategy against any team or person; it wasn't illegal and as I said earlier, an extremely smart way of doing things. In the future, however, I think that GDC should either make indirect, live in-match control illegal, or change it to a hybrid period permanently.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

Software is increasingly important in today's world. We need to challenge the programmers more, not less.

The Poofs' auton performance on Einstein was inspirational; with or without Cheesy Vision.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

I think that the use of indirect control of robots should be allowed. I also think that the hybrid period is brought back next year instead of auto, so that it promotes this kind of innovation.

For Auto mode this kind of stuff doesn't really fit, but I think it should be a possibility.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

Having scouted a number of the other division playoffs as well as our own, the goalies really became salient in those rounds. It was interesting how they weren't important during quallifying.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

We used it very effectively in quals in our division, winning some tough matches based on blocking.

I will agree that in elims it was more effective to block for two reasons. More teams were shooting, and you generally had better partners to help defend the missed balls with.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

This is essentailly what 1712 was hoping to do with our autonomous modes (with the original intent being to accomodate any partner's potential 2/3-ball routine while still earning our 5 mobility points), but we kept introducing drive lag when we implimented it. Had we got this working, I would have pushed for adding a goalie pole and using it there as well.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

It depends on the game. A bit of autonomy is nice, but I don't think a strictly autonomous mode is a prerequisite to a successful FRC game.

With that in mind, if the GDC wants the robots to have absolute autonomy, then they should write that into the rules; if they want hybrid autonomy, then they can write that instead. If they want to provide different incentives for increasing degrees of autonomy, maybe they can do that too. Whatever they do, it would be better if it's fairly clear from the start, instead of being enabled through open-ended rules and Q&As.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

I want to see fully autonomous robots some day so I voted no. If we allow hybrid it might stifle creativity because there is another way to achieve the objective.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

There are reasonable compromises that could be done.

For example, kinect input is shut of after 2 seconds, or only open after 7 seconds.

Something where it essentially limits you to send signals that launch other actions, versus directly controlling motion.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

Or a point bonus for not sending commands from driver station during auto.


Emphasis on bonus instead of penalty. bonus always sounds better.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

I voted 'no'. The autonomous 'chess match' on Einstein was awesome! (Kudos to the poofs for being ready for that!) But there have been many examples of autonomous mode 'chess matches' over the years without needing hybrid control. In 2013 we had lots of them when fighting for the discs in the center of the field for example.

Re: The use of the Kinect and Cheesy Vision in 2015 and beyond
 

The 2012 fights over the balls, while maybe not as impressive as 1114 and 254 on Einstein this year, were still pretty exciting.