Re: A Request
 

I could have sworn that Jr. FLL was going to be with FLL in Renaissance Grand, and FTC would have Union Station to itself. :confused:

Re: A Request
 

First off, in Michigan FTC is a middle school program, so it's rather unfair to compare the two here. My biggest problem with it is that team numbers change every year, making it feel like every team is a rookie with no history.

Re: A Request
 

I'll second this. And further, I'll expand it to VEX.

It is the JV to the FRC Varsity. It is slower, less exciting, less of a spectacle. From my perspective it is an excellent tool to use to feed students into the Varsity program which we can use to actually change the culture.

And, before someone says I am unfamiliar with the programs:

2 years FVC mentor, 2 years FTC mentor, 7 years FRC mentor.

Re: A Request
 

FTC team numbers are permanent like FRC, unless Michigan does it differently.

Re: A Request
 

You might be thinking of FLL, which recently switched to permanent team numbers.

Re: A Request
 

I have to assume you didn't see much of the available event space in the DoubleTree. You could fit six NBA basketball courts in the "Midway" alone; it's more than 28 thousand square feet in size. Give 128 teams a 10x10 pit each with 10 foot aisles and you only need the space of four basketball courts. The Grand Ballroom is another sixteen thousand square feet in one chunk.

Re: A Request
 

Nor will you find the letter "C", but that's half of what defines both FRC and FTC.

Re: A Request
 

I think saying that exclusively FRC students, and not FTC students, are going to end up being good engineers and culture changers would be an huge misstatement.

You have to take into account that FTC might actually be helping more then FRC, because FTC can reach way more schools and teams, due to its much lower cost. FTC teams might not be as impressive to an outsider as a FRC team, but FTC helps pull in more students into the ideas of engineering because of that much wider reach.

I personally attend a school where we just can't afford a FRC team because of all the costs that go with it, so we have FTC, and we still get all the lessons we would of gotten from FRC.

Sure, FRC robots are huge compared to FTC robots, however, if FTC outdoes FRC in anything, its competitiveness. Unlike FRC where you see 'regulars', who almost always make it to the world championships, in FTC, due to the amount of teams, it's extremely hard to make it to worlds for one year, let alone several years in a row.

I didn't know elitism was an issue in FIRST, and its definitely surprising to find, as the whole centerpiece of FIRST is gracious professionalism.

Re: A Request
 

It's something that I don't really see much outside of good ole' Chief Delphi. Publicly anyway.

Re: A Request
 

I guess I am just missing something, we explored for a while, but not for THAT long.

Re: A Request
 

Where on earth did I say that? You're mistaking the micro goals of FIRST (inspiring students) with the macro goals of FIRST (cultural change). FRC is better at the macro goal. I did not say anything about the micro goal.

Re: A Request
 

You said -

The way I read it, it seemed to me that you thought FTC wasn't able to help change the culture, something FRC could.

I think it isn't the job of one competition level of FIRST to change the culture, but rather all of FIRST as an organization. That'd be like saying that only doctors with a PhD. have the job of helping people overcome sickness.

Re: A Request
 

You're mistaking the impact on students with the actual goal of culture change. Let me give you an example and maybe you can see why you're wrong.

When a father and son watch football together and the kid is inspired to go outside and toss a ball around because he wants to be like [some football player that I don't know cuz I don't watch it]. What were they watching? peewee football or the NFL? FTC is peewee football. It impacts the students in it but it's a crap tool for inspiring students not involved. For that you need something exciting, something sexy.

Re: A Request
 

/sigh I was going to not jump in, but you said the "V" word.

Vex is to FRC like Varsity to wanna-Varsity, FRC robots lumber across a basketball court like the Seniors League at the Y. Yea, some great shots, but mostly driving into each other like old guys. VEX robots, since they only have 12' of space need to be nimble, pivoting and scoring. FTC has the same space and with 4 robots, need to be agile.

Oh yea three robots on an aliance, so two can be lame and one can score. Not in Vex and FTC world. Only one partner, a dead robot and you are looking at the loss side of a score. Pfft.

But what cranked my started was the "change the culture". Really? All the time hands on with the robot (5 kids on a team means lots of touch time) and multiple design / build / compete iterations, we are changing roboteers lives over here. Nice that you spent $ 18,000 on 20 kids and built a robot and went to 2 events. For $12K I build 10 robots, compete in 4 events and change 50 kids into roboteers. Oh wait, I need mentors, min 2 for each robot, so I have 20 parents working with roboteers. Minor skills needed (righty tighty and maybe some programming) vs machine skills of the stars. One controller and a battery vs PDU, RIO, BDF, CAN, CAM, etc. So FTC and VEX is accessable to average Mom / Dad / Grandparent.

Oh but FRC worlds!!! Sorry, VEX Worlds is bigger than FRC, but wait, 65 FRC regionals vs 500 VEX events? Not quite the same face time. We run more FTC / VEX competitions within 2 hours of Philly than FRC does in a three state area. (No disrespect MAR, your district program rocks)

So, don't mock the FTC / VEX programs.

Oh, I was an FRC mentor for 4 years, but 7 years as VEX. Match you roboteer for roboteer.

Love FRC. Love FTC. Love VEX. Love FLL. Love BEST. etc.

We are trying to change a world, less than 3% of the students in schools have a chance to do the coolest thing in the world, COMPETITION ROBOTICS. Why slam a roboteer and a robotics program that has the same goals and objectives?

/rant

Re: A Request
 

Alright, let's not go around saying people's opinions are wrong. Everyone's entitled to their own thoughts, even if you might disagree with them. But that doesn't mean that they're wrong.

This is one of the reasons why C.D. has gotten so hostile lately, people aren't being considerate of others' opinions.

Alright, really? 25 ~ 23. We don't have to go around being all nit-picky either.