Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

Hi! Thanks for your attention. (sorry if this is in the wrong category!!!)

I've recently become very curious if teams have certain criteria for allowing new team members to join. I know a few Minnesota teams abide by MSHSL standards (drug free, making progress towards graduation) or make up their own that are similar. Today before school a teammate pointed out that Miss Daisy had a form prospective team members would fill out online.

Our team tries to allow all members who want to join robotics to join (and we have so far) even if they have subpar grades. All conflict/drama is quickly stopped or confronted until the root of the problem is found. Thankfully, there have been no incidents so far of team members leaving the team unless they graduate high school or no longer have time.

Here comes my question: What criteria do other teams have for allowing members? Our team is trying to set up an FTC at a local middle school and I'd like to have some guidelines for who can join and/or when they would have to leave the team (as mentioned before, due to drug use, fighting, or no progress towards schoolwork). Plus, it'd be nice to have more concrete guidelines for the new influx of freshmen next year for our high school FRC and FTC teams.
Also, if teams have ever (for lack of a better word) removed members, how would a team best be able to that? I'm interested in seeing what others have to say :D

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

Here are Team 2220's FRC membership requirements (they might be a biot out of date, but this is what I could find on our wiki; we also have a travel conduct document):

Code of Conduct:
“Gracious Professionalism” is essential to team participation. Disciplinary action, determined by team mentors and advisors in cooperation with the team captains, may include suspension from team activities, ineligibility to travel with the team, or removal from the team.

• Student will display “gracious professionalism” – the motto of FIRST – at all times and promote the ideals of FIRST.
• Students will not violate the racial/religious/harassment/violence/hazing rules of the Minnesota State High School league (MSHL bylaws available upon request).
• Students will follow the same rules as dictated by Eagan High School, including those in regards to alcohol and chemical substances.
• Students are expected to behave in a courteous and cooperative manner.
• Students are expected to be respectful of others and behave in a manner which protects the health and safety of themselves and others.
• Students shall be respectful of the facilities, tools, equipment, and all things being used by the team.
• Students shall not use profane, obscene or vulgar language in written, gestured or verbal form.
• Students at corporate sites are guests of the corporations and must be courteous and respectful. While at a corporate site, students are expected to follow the general rules and safety rules posted at the site.
• Students are expected to keep current with team activities and requirements by checking the website and their email frequently.

Student Eligibility:

• Students must be in grades 9 – 12
• Students must maintain at least a “C” (2.5) grade point average. Student must also have passed all of their classes the trimester prior to the beginning of our season.
• Students are expected to make a time commitment to the team, actively participate in meetings, workshops, and events, especially during the busy build season in January and February.
• Students are expected to be reliable (on time, prepared to work, clean up, positive attitude, assist newer members) and assist with team administrative tasks.
• 9th grade students are encouraged to choose between Lego Robotics and the Eagan Robotics Team* (not both) during the same calendar year.

As it says, violation of code of conduct is grounds for removal from the team depending on severity and team leadership's opinion.

We have very rarely had to exercise our rules-- and we actively help students who want to be on the team meet them if necessary.

*Eagan Robotics Team includes FTC and FRC teams that are members of Eagan FIRST robotics.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

I'll stop by your pit Saturday to discuss this with you! Alternatively you can find me in the pink fedora with a FIRST Senior Mentor shirt on. I'll most likely be around the FLL/FTC demos and the GOFIRST/Alumni table for most of the day but I also plan to go and talk to all of the teams.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

To be admitted onto the team, students must achieve the following:
• Attend a minimum of 8 of 10 scheduled training meetings during the Fall.
o Meetings in the fall are typically held after school every Friday from 3 to 6PM during the months of August through December. Schedule conflicts that result in missed hours due to sports, family functions, etc must be pre-approved by the lead teacher advisor.
• Commit to attend a minimum of 180 hours participating in FIRST Robotics activities during the 2014-15 school year, outside of normal school hours.
o Meetings are typically scheduled during January and February for Saturdays 9AM to 6PM, Sundays 1PM to 6PM, Mondays and Thursday 3PM to 6PM, and Fridays 3PM to 9PM. School holidays typically are full day robotics meetings.
• Demonstrate tangible and/or verifiable results of time and efforts spent during the fall training meetings.
• Commit to attend at least one off-season competition in the Fall of 2014 and at least one regional competition during the month of March 2015*
• Maintain a C-minimum grade and satisfactory or better citizenship mark in all classes at the quarter, 15-week, and semester grade reporting periods.
o Students are to notify the lead teacher advisor at any instance of low grades in any class.
• Complete regular school work as is expected of all students.
• Actively participate in team communications and check e-mail at least once daily.
• Act with gracious professionalism during team meetings and activities, and be responsible with and respectful of all team and school property.
• Participate in lab cleanup and program growth efforts.
• Be willing to participate in community service mentoring activities at Dunsmore, Lincoln, La Crescenta, or Keppel elementary schools.
• Show a genuine interest in being a dedicated member of the team, for both personal enrichment and collaborative advancement of Team 696 as an organization.
• Meet or exceed the minimum fund-raising requirement expected of all team members*. This requirement varies annually and will be announced in the fall.

*Note: As a school-sponsored activity, there are never any costs charged to individual students to participate in any aspect of the program that is required for credit, grades, or minimum participation requirements. Optional events and activities may incur costs such as lodging and transportation. Participation or lack thereof in optional events and activities will not affect a students’ eligibility for the team or class credit earned.

Grounds for disqualification and removal from the team include but are not limited to:
• Being off task during meeting and work times (video games, toys/puzzles, chatting, etc).
• Not following mentor directions or instructions
• Distracting or students and/or mentors from work
• Disregarding safety
• Unauthorized tampering with equipment including but not limited to computer resources
• Unprofessional behavior or causing disruptions of any sort
• Disrespect of fellow students and/or team mentors
• Grades below C in any class at any grade reporting period except the 5-week reporting period.
• Lack of attendance
• Recommendation for removal from the team by class teachers.

Students may be removed from the team for any of the above reasons at any time, after discussion between team mentors and ultimate decision of Mr. Black. Students removed due to poor grades may be granted re-admittance if teacher(s) indicates the grade(s) have improved.
Approximately in December, a definitive list will be published indicating which students have been accepted to the team for the 2014-2015 season. Members who are ultimately not accepted to the team for the 2014-2015 season are invited to re-apply for the 2015-2016 season.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

Wow. All members have to get that much? That's impressive. And I thought we really laid down the rules when we raised our hours requirements from 30 to 40 over last year. Although our most involved members get 300+ hours before competition season, how do you not scare any prospective students away with that requirement? We've been trying to find ways to expand the team without dissuading someone.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

Show them the math, probably. If their school year is like ours, they have ~40 weeks of school. 180 hours over 40 weeks is ~5 hours a week. Considering a lot of students will spend twice or quadruple that after school during build season alone, and it seems like less of a commitment. Heck, on my team a lot of members will spend 10+ hours just on Saturdays! Plus they do fall training meetings, and I'm assuming some outreach... when it comes down to it, 180 hours seems like a larger time commitment than it is (of course, my perception of commitment to robotics is completely and utterly warped to begin with, so take that with a grain of salt...).

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

General 668 criteria/rules:

-Abide by school rules at all times
-Abide by company/venue rules when visiting a sponsor/event
-Must be actively pursuing GP at all times
-Must have no F's to participate at all
-Must have no D's or F's to travel/miss school for events
-Students are expected to show up to every meeting, or at least inform us of when and why they will not be attending
-Student team leaders are preferred to have no other intense extra-curricular commitments during build season. For team leaders, the only thing that should be prioritized over robotics is schoolwork itself (as well as the obvious... family, religion, etc.)
-Students must be in one of three states during meetings: Doing robotics-related work, doing schoolwork, or not at robotics.

Removal:
-Loitering/distracting those at work (only a temporary removal unless chronic)
-Mistreatment/disrespect towards other members or mentors
-F in any course (temporary/until remedied)
-Blatant disregard towards safety

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

I'm not sure I agree with minimum grade requirements - I was a terrible student in high school, and got more out of this program than probably the rest of high school put together.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

Yeah, I have similar thoughts. If a kid's so done with school they aren't bothering to get good grades, why would kicking them out of FRC help? I've known some kids that it's happened to before, and it's a darn shame. I'd much rather have someone getting Cs and learning a ton in FRC than getting As and bored in school. Especially because one of the great things that this program does is show kids why what they're learning in school is actually useful (and that there's more to look forward to in college).

Of course, there's also no reason why you shouldn't be able to both spend tons of time at FRC and get good grades...

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

On our team, anybody can be part of it, but in order to travel with the team, members must have a C- or better in all classes.
Sure, robotics inspires greatness, but school always comes first. We've found that system focuses kids on true priorities.
Our policy.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

I understand both sides of the grades arguement. personally however, I don't think its a good idea. For one a good part of robotics students are taking honors or AP courses making there gpa inaccurate (HPA fixes this). But even then, students that have choosen to help out more in the shop as opposed to doing homework should not be penalized by being kicked off or suspended from the team.

I may be biased because I did horrible in school durring build season. Still, my choice to attend every single build meeting should not be an offence worth getting kicked off for. Instead I think team leads just need to remind the student thst he is failing _____ and should probably work on improving that.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

If a student is capable of getting A's, and is using FRC as an excuse to be lazy, then they're not doing themselves justice, nor is the program. A students getting C's are not helping them with their future, no matter how many people they learn to work with.

C students getting C's are a different ballgame, but FRC is never an excuse to permenantly deflate your grades.

My personal favourite is when C students get A's thanks to their involvement in robotics.

Full disclosure: Yes during build season my grades do suffer, but that has helped me. I've learned that I have to work extra hard before January and after April to compensate, which actually resulted in a net gain for me. FRC taught me how to manage my grades on top of robotics. How many times have you heard "how can you possibly put this much time into something and still pass your classes?" My favourite thread on Chief Delphi had some awesome advice and techniques to employ if you're struggling with this. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=57499

FRC is not an excuse to ruin your future, no matter how you sugercoat it.

EDIT: Reading this back it seems like I'm coming off overly harsh towards you Roger. This post isn't targeted at you, it's more of a general statement.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

For us, the only requirement we have is grades - that's a school-mandated requirement for all extracurricular activities.

As others have already indicated in this thread, the amount of time spent in an extracurricular can have a negative effect on your schoolwork and grades, it's important to find a suitable balance. Quite frankly, when you graduate and go to college or find a job, your grades are going to be more important than saying your on a FIRST team. A good college isn't going to sit back and say "well, FIRST makes up for the 1.5 GPA...", and a potential employer is going to look at it and say "1.5 GPA? This kid obviously doesn't have much motivation or commitment."

When it comes to grades, our faculty adviser keeps an eye on them for every student, and we try to intervene before it gets to a point where they have to leave the team. Hopefully by having a limit like this, the team can help motivate students to do better in their classes, when they need such motivation!

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

We have open enrollment policy, even allow students from other schools come in. As far as academic performance is concerned, we inform the student and parents that they are responsible for academic performance and students can chart their path in our team, pick activities of their interest. Mentors will guide and train them. So far it has been working good. Students who are regular and show interest, they have picked up leadership reins and have become good leaders. Few times we ask student to do something that he/she hasn't been doing and we either see potential in student or we need some hands to do it.

1058's stance:

We have no exhaustive requirements or rules, no applications or getting rejected from joining the team. We have the Pirate's Code: (which, if you've seen Pirates of the Caribbean, are more like guidelines than actual rules :D)

Don't be a jerk, be willing to learn, stay on task (the snowball fights after long Saturday build season meetings don't count :D) and most of all, HAVE FUN. We deal with all grade and disciplinary issues on a case-by-case basis with the student's teachers and administration.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

On my team the minimum grade requirement is essentially an excuse for the team to help struggling members out. We have all types-- A students, students that would drop out, and everything in between. We try to help our students succeed in all academic aspects of their high school career.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

For the students questioning the grades requirement

This...

Our team is in a No Pass No Play state. We follow all UIL rules which I believe are the same in most states; if any grade falls below a 70 the student is not allowed to participate in extracurricular activities until the next grading period in which the student is passing all courses. It is an unfortunate fact of our team being associated with a school. It's just one of those rules many of us are required to follow.

Oh and this is what it should be:
Good Leadership and Teamwork CadandCookies!!

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate. I agree that grades are very important for getting into the college you want, but I think that employers have been relying less and less on GPA to evaluate new hires. I also think that colleges are behind the times in this regard, but that's a different topic.

The company I work for probably wouldn't have noticed if I had left my GPA off my resume (and they certainly never asked about or requested a transcript). From what I've heard from other recent grads, this is becoming somewhat of a trend. Google has also made the news lately by stating that "GPAs are worthless as a criteria for hiring.".

Obviously a *bad* GPA can hurt you. You are definitely correct in that a 1.5 GPA could be difficult to get passed. However, I think that whatever poor habits led to that would also show in other ways as well.

In the context of this discussion, I'm definitely a fan of a GPA requirement for the team. Team 2052 has a grade requirement for attending competitions and lettering, though our school only provides us with a list of how many classes the student is failing, and a pass/fail (no GPA or per-class grade list).

We also are more than happy to work with students to make exceptions. If they tell us that they are failing one class because they missed a test and that they are making it up in a week, we are more than happy to accommodate them.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

Thank you all so much for the response! I actually wasn't expecting this much. x) in our teams case, grades thankfully aren't too big of a deal and everyone ends up passing, even during build season or when a lot of school is missed during comps.

Thank you! I actually might be scouting but our safety captain will be part of the FTC team if you want to talk to him too. I'll have (hopefully) an LED flower crown and a sash full of buttons.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

I'd be willing to bet that Google still does what all large companies do for their normal recruitment process: put their resumes through computer filters that eliminate based on benchmarks - GPA included. You have to have a decent GPA for your resume to ever be seen by human eyes.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

I can tell you back in the day (dating myself here... about 14 years ago!) when I was looking at colleges I talked with a recruiter from * (I don't want to influence opinions of an institution based on a single anecdotal incident in my past). He asked my GPA, and when I told him it was less than perfect (at the time a 3.99998), he practically dismissed me out of hand. He didn't care about the other stuff I had done, and it left me with a very bitter feeling towards that institution.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

I agree with this as well. I, along with some members of our team, are not A honor role students and we do get a lot out of FIRST. Maybe even more so then from our classes. I know that the athletic teams at our school have a grade requirement in order to compete in meets or play in games but FIRST is a different program then normal sports. It really is a "sport for the mind" and kids learn skills that will help them in life more so then just a sport. I think that not letting your grades fall because of being in robotics is important but I don't think it should be a requirement to join the team.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

I understand this view, but I think any student's first priority should be school itself. Almost all sports at our school have minimum grade requirements, so why shouldn't the sport of the mind? As much as FIRST can teach a student, graduating is a far more important goal.

A large part of what FIRST has taught me is how to balance and prioritize. I understand the struggle of keeping grades high or even passing, especially in the heat of build. The ability to draw the line where I need to stop doing robotics and focus on school is arguably one of the most important skills I've learned.

Re: Criteria for Allowing New Team Members
 

We have no policies regarding who can join and who is allowed to attend our meetings (for example, one of our member's girlfriend is known to drop by meetings and competitions on a regular basis and help us out, even though she's not an official member of the team). However, we take attendance extremely seriously and various aspects of the team experience are off limits unless you meet a certain attendance criteria.
To be considered officially in the records as a member of the team, one must have cumulative 60% attendance at team meetings (Sundays, competitions, and extended meeting times are extra credit, so some members might have in the ballpark of 140% during build season). There also used to be a rule that members with less than 60% attendance would at least have to arrange their own ride to competition, but with a recent lack of scouters that rule has been left relatively unenforced.
Running for a management position or trying out for the drive team requires an attendance rate of 85%, which is rather inflexible. Rarely are there exceptions granted to this rule, whereas the former is pretty flexible. Exceptions may be given to the former if you were very sick, grounded, or an extremely dedicated member who had an intensive prior commitment. (I'd also like to add that while you might get an official exemption for showing up late to every single Sunday meeting because you had oboe private lessons, you will still be made fun of and asked to remind everyone what time this meeting starts.)