Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

Seems like some revisionist history happening here. PNW wanted/invited N. ID teams, not southern ID teams. Joining PNW would have meant less travel for southern ID teams especially after California goes districts and potentially draws in LV/NV. Until SLC regional started, Idaho teams traveled to Seattle, Portland, Sacramento regularly for their competitions. Having all of Idaho join PNW was viewed as existential threat by some to SLC viability. The issue is more complex than you are describing.

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

Don't know what "revisited" means in this context but did not hear of any renewed effort to include ID.

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

Okay, I haven't read this whole post, but I am sort-of bummed that 1108 from Kansas, who won Crossroads this year--won't be able to compete in Indiana now.

We normally only have the budget to compete in one regional, where so many of the district teams have played many times when the CHP comes, so again that's a disad for us.

But the big question I haven't heard addressed here is how do all of you get off work for all of these tournaments? I get two weeks vacation a year and this year I've used it all on regional, CHP and IRI and off-season. My wife is totally not pleased that I use all my vacation on robotics. Do these little events fit into one day? Driving too? One-day events would make my life better.

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

Many (for teams; not necessarily volunteers) end up starting Friday afternoon (ie. starting at 4PM) for loadin/pit time/sometimes practice matches, then full competition Saturday and Sunday. Of course, not all are, but ones that take place in high schools tend to follow that schedule.

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

IIRC (please correct me if im wrong) Ontario wanted to go to districts for 2015, but it was delayed. This was (at least partly) why 254 came to Waterloo, to compete in Ontario before districts showed up. Again, a big IIRC, and please correct me if im wrong.

In my Ontario First experiences, I've never noticed an event short of volunteers.

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

I won't be able to quote it but I remember reading one of Jim Zondag's informational posts about FiM and playing outside and inside of the district. When FiM was first installed, they pushed to allow teams outside the district to visit and play. This was shut down for some reason, I don't remember how. I do not think is going to stay that way, it isolates too many things. When more districts start to form, I would image they would look at teams visiting outside districts if they are able.

I could be missing something here, but I think its a good discussion to have.

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

With FIRST having adopted a common point system for all districts, it opens up the possibility (once allowed) for teams to play at district events outside of their own district - you can earn your points wherever, then if you earn enough compete in your own district championship. That possible future is very easy to see right now!

However, non-district teams are at a slight disadvantage - there's currently no line of sight for a non-district team to play at a district event. Say you play at a district event and win, or win chairman's, etc... it would get you nothing. You would earn points, but as your team isn't part of a district those points mean nothing - a non district team doing well at a district event does not provide any path towards advancement to the next level of play. The only benefit I could see, given what we currently know, is if a district event cost less and you could play there before playing in a regional event - the added practice and experience could help you at your regional.

As things currently stand, opening up cross-district play seems like it could create an artificial boundary between district and regional teams, where district teams all interplay to their hearts content, and regional teams all interplay, and the two only ever meet at champs. Now, I will grant that this could be interesting... kind of like baseball with the NL and AL (prior to 1997, when interleague play was first introduced). Looking at it that way does start to imply a whole different structure for champs, though!

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

The only adjustments necessary to welcome non-district teams is to apply a uniform points system globally, allow all teams to compete where they want/can afford to and send the top 600 teams to Champs. Possibly incorporate a competition surcharge for non-district teams to help defray additional field costs incurred by districts....

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

When I refer to ID teams traditionally attending PNW area events I am referring specifically to the time period after the existence of SLC. You are correct that it is a little more complex.

FIRST originally intended for all of ID to be a part of the PNW District. The projected number of teams for the PNW District was based on all of the ID teams being part of the district. When venues were being scouted and selected it was with the thought that ID teams would be a part of the district. The decision to have 10 events was based on thinking that ID teams would be a part of the district.

We were then told that FIRST was told that the ID teams did not wish to be a part of the PNW District. We then went back and asked if the N. ID teams could join the district. We were then told that FIRST was told that the N. ID teams were not interested.


Before the 2014 season had ended I for one and others asked again if the ID or N. ID teams could join us for the 2015 season. We were again told that the ID teams still did not wish to join.


So it is not because FIRST nor the PNW district does not wish for ID to be a part of the district.

If you want to be a part of the PNW district then you need to gain support from a majority of the teams in ID and directly let FIRST know that you wish to join the PNW district.

Unfortunately at this point it is probably too late for that to happen for the 2015 season as the process of selecting and scheduling the events for 2015 is well on the way to being solidified.


I can not speak to what specifically is going on regarding Ontario joining the district system.

However event volunteers are only a small part of the equation. You also need to keep in mind the key volunteers as there is frequently more than one event per week so you need at least two trained key volunteers for every one of those positions. The reality is also that the number of volunteers needed for a 36 team event is substantially the same as for a 64 team event. You can get by with a few less judges but for the other positions you need the same number. In fact you actually need more if you do not hire Show Ready Events to do the AV production and provide the catering and additional support.

Inter-district play is being discussed as potentially starting for the 2015 season. The details have not been worked out yet and it is not certain that it will happen this season. If it does happen what would likely happen is to allow out of district teams to register at the same time teams from in district are able to register for a 3rd event. Again this is far from finalized and it may not happen this season.

Presumably if FIRST were to allow a team that is not in the district system to play at a district event then the non-district team would likely have to pay the 3rd event fee to the district that they are visiting.

The problem with your idea of a global points system is that you bring up the question of what to do about the teams that can only attend one event. Simply doubling their points does not account for the "valleys of doom" and "coattail" effects. Minimizing those effects was one of the guiding factors behind the unified points system. Having it totally based on points also throws a wrench into how the culture awards advance and would require a re-write of the Unified Points System. It would also be very unfair as the points that a team can earn are directly related to the number of teams at an event which is why efforts are made to make the number of teams at a district event as close as is possible. So the teams that compete at a traditional Regional would be at an automatic disadvantage compared to teams in the District System.

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

This is no different than the "third district event" play for teams in districts. You accumulate points that you cannot cash in for any sort of benefit other than bragging rights, and possibly a trophy. We all know that trophy accumulation is the real reason teams go to the third event.. :yikes:

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

And dat unbag window.

Re: Indiana going to Districts for 2015
 

And keep presenting for Chairmans under the new rules.