Motors: Past and Future
 

I was looking through some Chief Delphi threads for history on how the FRC technology has developed over the years and I noticed that the motors have not changed much in recent time.

How long has the CIM ben around?
I noticed that there was a Bosch drill motor from years ago, why did they discontinue it in FRC?
Do you think there is room for a new company to develop motors and improve upon what has already ben proven over the years?

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

The CIM has been around since 2002, and four were first legal in 2005, making it practical for robots to use CIMs exclusively for drive motors.

I wasn't around then, but from what I hear drill motors stopped being used because they tended to blow up in situations where CIMs do not.

There's certainty not much that can be done to surpass the CIM for outright durability. Perhaps lighter or more efficient motors could be developed, but reliability under non-optimal conditions is what makes for a great FRC motor, and the CIMs are phenomenal at this.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

There's definitely room for more motors. I could see stepper motors coming in at some point.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

I don't really see stepper motors having a great place in FRC. Too many ways to lose counts.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

Just last season (2013) we added the BAG motor and MiniCIM which were huge improvements. I'm pretty sure we have all the motors we need now. I haven't see to many robots that use all of the 200+W motors that are legal (6 CIMs, 4 MiniCIMS, 4 BB775/550s). Unless they decide to change a lot of the rules to allow stepper motors or brushless motors, I'm pretty satisfied with the brushed motor options available to teams.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

There has certainly been plenty of new motors introduced over the years. The MiniCIM and BAG motor were introduced in 2013. The AndyMark motors were not much before that. The throttle motors have only been around since like 2010, iirc (but nobody uses those anyway). The 775 banebots motors have only been around since 2011 or 2012 (don't remember when they first introduced the 550, but it was around the same time I think). Not to mention several useful motors have been discontinued in the past decade, namely the globe and fisher price motors (not to mention the significant variations between different FP model numbers).

Very few motors are developed for FRC specifically (I think the two VexPro CIM variants being the only ones). More often, FRC-suppliers develop gearboxes to integrate with them (namely the CIM-size or 500 series motors). In some cases, namely with AndyMark, they are reatiled as gearmotors with these gearboxes affixed as a standard COTS item.

Honestly, if anything, I kinda yearn for the days of fewer high powered motors. The drivetrain arms race is getting ridiculous, and now you don't even have to sacrifice motors from elsewhere on your robot to compete. Scarcity isn't really a factor in designing with motors anymore. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not, but my personal nostalgia biases me.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

Personally I wish the motor rules were:

6 - Cims
4 - MiniCims
Unlimited Bags!

No need for any new motors.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

I do like having 500 sized motors.

They're more power dense, which can be utilized if teams understand the failure mode from heat.

They're good for high bursts of power (like a 2013 shooter spinning up) with intermittent low load between.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

That would be pretty expensive for teams.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

As a mentor of a team that frequently uses the AM9015, PG-series, and window motors, I'm glad this isn't the case.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

Vs Buying 550's? Eh, I wouldn't mind the $15-20 dollar difference for a better motor. We use the 775's over the 550's currently so its not a big difference in what we spend currently.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

We're in the same boat, I'd be fine with just CIMs, MiniCIMs, BAGs, and 775s though most of the time we use 775s because we already used 4 MiniCIMs/Bags.

The 550s were useful in 2013 when we needed a lot of speed.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

Yes. The only thing that steers me away from BAGs is their relative price. That being said, my robot this year consisted of 5 CIMs and a 775.

Using 8 BAGs vs. 8 550s (4 competition bot + 4 practice bot) is a difference of $148.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

I'd like to see a motor that was a little more powerful than the 775 but packaged the same way, so that it could be used instead of the CIMs for drive. The reliability of the CIMs is great, but they're really heavy compared to a 775, and not that much more powerful.

Re: Motors: Past and Future
 

That's a fair comparison, we won't consider using the 550 over the 775 in the current motor allotment so for us its a $74 difference. Either way its just a personal preference, I tend to spend more :cool: .