Axis camera mount
 

Danny from team 3840

I recently overhauled my adjustable locking camera mount that I posted here: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:248033. The new design is more printer friendly and has tightening slots for both ranges of motion. My question is: If I listed complete mounts on eBay would any teams be interested in buying them? If so how much would they be willing to pay? If I post the update on thingiverse are there any teams that don't have ready access to 3d printing and would still buy them?

Re: Axis camera mount
 

Nice looking product. Instructions says hot glue the camera, would it be possible to use a nylon end cap nut to secure the camera. The bolt/screw sticking out of camera is grounded and we cannot let that thingy touch the frame when camera is powered up.

Personally I wouldn't buy on eBay (gosh my payment info and address is in every other country!), prefer on AndyMark, but if its coming from from FRC team I may go to eBay.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

Well, instead of end cap nut, is it possible to create snap-lock in your design itself? And make sure the metal thingy sticking out of camera is not exposed. Also would it be possible to have mounts for LED rings? Yeah its my wish list, makes life easier though.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

Before you start selling, it may be worth reviewing the definition of VENDOR in the FRC manual and associated rules.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

My shift key doesn't work.

I'm actually working on using the screw on the back to secure it.
Can i get in trouble for selling accessories to teams even if i don't claim to be affiliated with FIRST.9 By the way, the one i'm sitting on is much better than the one on thingiverse. It's an updated version that i haven't uploaded yet.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

No, you won't get in trouble. What does happen is that since you aren't a legal vendor, your parts don't count as COTS items, but rather fabricated items. As such, they may not be used on a legal robot if they're designed/manufactured after kickoff. However, I have been curious...if you release CAD models publicly, can you use them in the regular season? There's an explicit exception for software, but I seem to recall "designs" being allowed as well if they're shared before kickoff.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

what about parts i made last year for my team, are those legal this year:confused: What if i finish the design after kickoff and release it then, will that be legal?

Re: Axis camera mount
 

So are we not allowed to use things designed off season? If so what about other thingiverse designs people use, not to mention things reused from year to year like custom crab drive modules or complete drive trains.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

I think I miss understood; you're saying I need to make it public before kickoff for it to be a legal part, right? And after kickoff people can download it but not buy it? I did share it with some other teams last season and the inspectors didn't say anything.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

R13 D exempts all software and designs with source files publicly available before kickoff from not being allowed if designed before the season.

So as long as you post the source files, which in this case would be the CAD files to Thingierse, CD, or some other public location before the season starts you are free to use it on your robot as a manufactured part.

Without doing that you would either have to meet FIRST's criteria for a vendor, in which case your team could get one and use it as a COTS part, or make another improved version after the season starts. The latter option is allowed by Example 1 in the blue box for R13, but you'd probably need to make some significant improvements if you were to go this route—making small or pointless changes would be questionably legal and likely frowned upon.

Granted, this is all assuming that the whatever the equivalent of R13 is next year is the same. We won't be able to say for sure until kickoff.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

Nyle got most of what I was going to go into, so I'm going to home in on some questions.

Note: R13 hasn't changed significantly, other than exactly which rule number it is, in years. However, that was also said about the size rules prior to the 2013 season (which then saw the size rules change).

Not if it was used on the robot (unused parts that are publicly available, at least in design, are generally considered to be OK). R13 is quite clear. Particularly see the first paragraph of its blue box.

Again, see R13, but this time focus on R13D. If it's publicly available, it's fair game (provided that the particular item in question was not built for a previous robot, but built anew for the current robot). Incidentally, if someone is simply reusing a custom drivetrain (as in, not modifying it, redesigning it or otherwise reworking it or rebuilding it), I'd like to have a little chat with them with my neon yellow hat on about the implications of R13 on their design/build process.

Yes and No. For a fabricated item of this sort, either it needs to be public before Kickoff or designed/built after Kickoff. In this case, the former applies. Once it's uploaded, people can download the plan. If you happen to be a VENDOR or partnered with a VENDOR (Hint: AndyMark does sell items that were developed by teams), then people can buy the item; otherwise, I would err on the side of caution and not sell.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

I don't know why I said complete drivetrain, we don't do that and I've never seen anyone else do that. Thanks for all the tips guys.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

I can't find the rules, can someone give me a link so I can read rule13?

Re: Axis camera mount
 

Re: Axis camera mount
 

This rule is pretty restrictive and unenforceable. What about things like a simple frame L-bracket, a pressure gauge mount, a pulley spacer, or a mecanum wheel mount? These are all things my teem fabricates and need every year, and need to be the same . Do we have to not reuse any frame parts (hardware) that we make? I guess this means for the things we actually have CAD models of we need to make public? I guess what I'm trying find out because it's not very clear is this: does this apply to everything including simple parts or just assemblies/mechanical stuff? The spirit of the rule seems to be not reusing large chunks of design. Is it up to The inspectors to decide?

Re: Axis camera mount
 

Well, the rule is what the rule is. And by that, I mean yes, it does apply to simple parts. If you cut the L-bracket last year, then odds are, you can't put it on your robot. However, if you publish the design files, then you can reuse the same design, but you'll have to make a new bracket. That's just how the rule is written. Now, as far as enforcing it, it's difficult for inspectors to do. Competing in FIRST comes with a certain level of honesty (hence the overtone of Gracious Professionalism throughout the organization). We, as a whole, rely on other teams to be honest when it comes to abiding by these rules. FIRST is willing to trust teams quite a bit. Heck, we're allowed to bag our own robot and take it to competitions without actually "proving" that it was in the bag by midnight on Bag Day (capitalized because it should be a federal holiday). Don't violate that trust they have in us.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

Yes. You do need to rebuild it every year. Unless you're dealing with a COTS part, you need to rebuild it every year, regardless of whether the CAD is public or not. (Although, if it's actually identical, or nearly identical, every year, it shouldn't be too terribly difficult to make some form of jig to build it, which will improve speed and accuracy of work. Just a thought.)

Now, as far as the inspectors/enforcement: When your mentor and team captain sign the inspection form, they are certifying that the robot was built following all FRC rules. Will the inspector know? Probably not, as long as the previous year's inspection stickers aren't on there. But will YOU be comfortable signing off that form if you know that your robot was built in violation of a rule? If you are not, then I think you know what to do. If you are... I don't want to think down that train of thought.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

Absolutely, that's why i had so many questions, i don't want to break any rules.

Re: Axis camera mount
 

Hey guys, I've been talking to AndyMark about carrying my mount. Andy hasn't gotten back to me on weather or not they think it will sell. If there are any teams out there, and I know there were some at my regional, that would buy this from AndyMark and/or like to see it on FIRST choice/in the kop, please post on this thread with your team number so I can have a list of interest to show Andy. If people want to see pictures of the new design I may post them, I just don't want anybody to copy/use my design until I release it.