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-   -   Tribot swerve (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130238)

JohnSchneider 07-08-2014 20:47
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Just remember. More 3 wheel swerve robots have won worlds than mechanum.

g_sawchuk 07-08-2014 20:54
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchneider (Post 1395717)
Just remember. More 3 wheel swerve robots have won worlds than mechanum.
Because that means a lot.

asid61 07-08-2014 21:01
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSchneider (Post 1395717)
Just remember. More 3 wheel swerve robots have won worlds than mechanum.
IMO, a well-designed swerve drive will beat a well-designed mecanum drive. However, mecanum wheels have only been widely available for a few years in the FIRST community, so you have to give them some time.

cmrnpizzo14 07-08-2014 21:41
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben Martin (Post 1395691)
Offhand, I can think of a few considerations:
- Looks like the side length would be ~37 in. for an equilateral triangle. This could make passing through a 36" door difficult if the bumpers are on (we have a hard time doing this with 28" robots with bumpers as is)
- You have ~23% less total volume available to you with the triangle configuration than the square configuration (with maxed out dimensions and an equilateral triangle).
These two items would dissuade me from pushing it in most cases, but in a game where space constraints are not an issue and you need wide pickups, I could see this configuration being useful.
The door point is what would get me. I never have even considered this as a factor in robot dimensions but if we can't get it out of our work room then we will have a tough time competing....

Lil' Lavery 08-08-2014 15:57
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by asid61 (Post 1395722)
IMO, a well-designed swerve drive will beat a well-designed mecanum drive. However, mecanum wheels have only been widely available for a few years in the FIRST community, so you have to give them some time.
AndyMark first introduced their mecanum wheels in 2006, iirc. It's been quite a bit longer than a "few years" at this point. Granted, the first robot with steered wheel modules to win a championship was 67 in 2005, iirc.

Andrew Schreiber 08-08-2014 16:23
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery (Post 1395833)
AndyMark first introduced their mecanum wheels in 2006, iirc. It's been quite a bit longer than a "few years" at this point. Granted, the first robot with steered wheel modules to win a championship was 67 in 2005, iirc.
Stang 03? (I don't recall)

Billfred 08-08-2014 18:18
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by asid61 (Post 1395722)
IMO, a well-designed swerve drive will beat a well-designed mecanum drive. However, mecanum wheels have only been widely available for a few years in the FIRST community, so you have to give them some time.
I know first-hand that mecanum drives go back to at least 2006 (357--Royal Assault--ran them to the Florida Regional finals). I know AndyMark had them available for the 2008 season (1293 used parts from them). That's seven years (okay, six if you want to discount Lunacy) of development for the masses. Swerve was around no later than 2000 (per this CD-Media picture of Chief Delphi (as in FRC 47) that year), maybe a couple years prior? With the raw number of teams now compared to then, I have to think mecanum has matured as an option by now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber (Post 1395836)
Stang 03? (I don't recall)
That's the first swerve I can think of that won it all. Can any old-timers go further back with a winner?

Nate Laverdure 08-08-2014 19:00
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Back in 2003 we were calling mecanums "jester drives." Too lazy to search, but you might find earlier evidence of mecanums under this name.

asid61 09-08-2014 03:22
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1395859)
I know first-hand that mecanum drives go back to at least 2006 (357--Royal Assault--ran them to the Florida Regional finals). I know AndyMark had them available for the 2008 season (1293 used parts from them). That's seven years (okay, six if you want to discount Lunacy) of development for the masses. Swerve was around no later than 2000 (per this CD-Media picture of Chief Delphi (as in FRC 47) that year), maybe a couple years prior? With the raw number of teams now compared to then, I have to think mecanum has matured as an option by now.
I stand corrected. For some reason I thought they were only introduced by AM a few years ago.
Swerve for life BTW. I don't care how effective they are now, but new designs are introduced every year. So many ways to do one thing.

Tyler2517 09-08-2014 17:13
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by asid61 (Post 1395906)
I stand corrected. For some reason I thought they were only introduced by AM a few years ago.
Swerve for life BTW. I don't care how effective they are now, but new designs are introduced every year. So many ways to do one thing.
Swerve is also one of the only things that FRC teams are front lining and developing within our selves to levels never seen before. We are not just stealing the ideas and using them we are developing stronger, lighter, faster swerves each year.
Each year you can see the traces teams leave the designs going full circle truly helping one another in the long run.

cadandcookies 09-08-2014 19:57
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Billfred (Post 1395859)
I know first-hand that mecanum drives go back to at least 2006 (357--Royal Assault--ran them to the Florida Regional finals). I know AndyMark had them available for the 2008 season (1293 used parts from them). That's seven years (okay, six if you want to discount Lunacy) of development for the masses. Swerve was around no later than 2000 (per this CD-Media picture of Chief Delphi (as in FRC 47) that year), maybe a couple years prior? With the raw number of teams now compared to then, I have to think mecanum has matured as an option by now.


That's the first swerve I can think of that won it all. Can any old-timers go further back with a winner?
Not winners, but 47 ran swerve for the first time in either 97 or 98 (someone told me that on here recently, but right now I'm on mobile and can't easily search).

Gdeaver 10-08-2014 10:35
Re: Tribot swerve
 
I was hoping to get more thoughts on the robot shape and it's benefits or negatives for game play. Right now we're trying to get our heads around the robot to robot interactions. Such as if one robot hits us here and another comes in and hits us here, how would the driver get out of the pin or blockade? We made some real progress this week on the tribot . We have some rotation models to implement chassis rotation. Also, Our head mentor has tackled the field centric issues with a different approach that should really help with making the swerve more intuitive for the driver with out fighting them on complex moves. We have a team member and college student working on the code. 2014 showed us that First is in the midst of a drive train arms race. For 2015 we intend to field a 6 cim tri-swerve or a 4 swerve with a quasi CVT. WE have to step it up to hang with the best. The bar keeps getting higher and we have to figure out how to jump higher.

XaulZan11 10-08-2014 10:39
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdeaver (Post 1395962)
I was hoping to get more thoughts on the robot shape and it's benefits or negatives for game play. Right now we're trying to get our heads around the robot to robot interactions. Such as if one robot hits us here and another comes in and hits us here, how would the driver get out of the pin or blockade?
I would watch video of 1425 from 2013. They had a triangle frame with a kiwi drive and they were very successful at avoiding getting pinned on their way back to full court shoot. It was very difficult to get a clean hit (and then pin) on them as they would just spin and bounce their way across the field.

thatprogrammer 10-08-2014 11:07
Re: Tribot swerve
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cadandcookies (Post 1395942)
Not winners, but 47 ran swerve for the first time in either 97 or 98 (someone told me that on here recently, but right now I'm on mobile and can't easily search).
It was 1998, same year omni wheels were first used in frc by teams 67 and 45 (to my knowledge). 45 also developed the 3 wheel Killough drive. Mecanums were first used in 2005 by 357 and called Jester drive. In 2008 148 developed the 3 wheel swerve.

Cool fact: team 47 (creators of swerve) are the namesake of this forum

NOTE: these points are to the best of my knowledge, I do not claim to be as knowledgeable as Mr. Karthik or Mr. Beatty.


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