Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

boooya

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

Has anyone considered picking a mecanum robot after talking to the team about switching the wheels to traction for eliminations? Or do you think the lack of drive practice would offset any benefits from the traction wheels?

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

that could end up being a lot of work

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

True, WCD has spoiled me in terms of pit repair/wheel replacement.

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

I'd say that the lack of drive practice would effectively disqualify that option. Along with:

--You now have a 4WD all-traction setup. Generally speaking, those don't turn easily. (With the shorter wheelbases we've seen the last couple of years, though, that's less of an issue.)
--You really need to make a major change to the programming, like eliminating the sideways motion part. Otherwise the robot will act really funny on the field. (Alan Anderson has a story about that somewhere...) But changing the program requires some testing, which you probably won't have time to do...

In short, not a good option. Either you take a mecanum robot as a mecanum robot or you leave them for someone else to take.

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

It's interesting to see that different regions may have different takes on drivetrain choices. I noticed a lot more mecanum robots in Orlando than I did in Texas (it seemed like 1/3 of all the competition used mecanum).

I figure this might have to do with the mentality of the teams. Again, this is just from my observation, and it's not a blanket statement. But in Orlando, it looked like everyone is more focused on outscoring the opponent rather than denying points from the opponent (which isn't bad, as long as your alliance has more points at the end is all that matters) - in short, offense > defense. For many teams, this was their first regional, yet the finals saw scores around 180 on both sides.

At our first regional, Alamo, the finals never saw a score above 100 points. I attribute that towards a more defensive focused play in Texas, rather than offense. While teams still build and gear towards scoring points, when it comes down to strategy, there's an emphasis on locking down the opponent so they can't score any more points.

Because of this, and the reputation most mecanum driven robots have for getting pushed around, it seems teams in our region stay away from them, and instead focus on tank drives or, even further, butterfly drives to escape pins more easily.

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

This may have to do with Alamo being earlier, and teams not being sure about offensive strategies at that point in time. By world champs, teams scored over 250 points even during the finals, due to solid offensive strategies being made over the 6 weeks of comp.

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

I attribute that more to about 8 teams at Alamo knowing how to play the game and about 5 or 6 of them actually able to play it.

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

I would assert that it is safe to say this is not a view or an opinion, but an objectively observable trend. Of course the only way to prove this; You need a database directly comparing average win/loss ratio of different classes of robots by drivetrain.

This is not likely to happen any time soon, but that doesn't mean we can't recognize that it is true that robots of similar ability level have similar qualities. Mecanum robots historically are not as good as non-mecanum robots. We don't have to like it, but that is how it is.

I think I may coin a term "mecanum-apologist"...

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

49 tank, 10 mecanum, 2 jump drives and 1 swerve.
This is why you see mecanum drive in Florida. Defense is not played nearly as much as in other places and most alliances go for the outscoring strategy. Just look at QF 2-2 at South Florida in 2013. The match had 3 mecanum drive robots, no defense and a 149-103 score.

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

Right, but I know it was the first regional for most of the teams there. Our alliance ran the same strategy that we ran at Alamo (2 assist cycles, the 3rd robot being focused on defense) yet the scores were significantly different.

Again, just an observation.

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots durring alliance selection.
 

I believe that it is very well known New England is where some of the heaviest defensive play occurs. watching events all over the US I noticed that in the west its offense offense offense. even in Texas the robots were made to play a purely offensive games, example 148 118, yes they play defense but there robot designs were more offensive. therefore I believe its true that mecanum wheels would be more common in those areas then up in new England.

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots during alliance selection.
 

Sorry to go a little off-topic here, but these are questions I had relating to this thread.

1) An add-on to the question for those who said automatic DNP: Instead of pick list, if you are a top 8 seed and a team with mecanum wheels above you picks you, do you automatically decline, or is it dependent on performance?

2) Are the same penalties made towards teams with:
a)4WD Omni
b)Slide/H Drive
c)Kiwi Drive

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots during alliance selection.
 

It depends on performance. I don't think to many teams were declining 33 this year even though they were a 4WD omni robot. However, I assume that their drivetrain choice was a consideration when teams were putting together pick lists.

Re: Penalizing mecanum wheeled robots during alliance selection.
 

1. It would depend on the team.

2.
A: Until a larger amount of teams use them I shovel them into the same pile as mecanum. that being said, i would pick 33 at just about every opportunity.

B: mecanum pile.

C: DNP. it can not push and has a smaller wheel base.