Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Hey everyone,

To my understanding, when you turn the robot on, the spike controlling our pneumatic switch should turn either red/green from orange. Our spike stays orange. We can't hear anything coming from the compressor, but every other mechanism on the robot works. What's going wrong?

Also, if this has anything to do with it, the dlink turns red upon first turning on. Then, after around 10-15 seconds, it turns blue and the robot runs functionally. (asides from the pneumatics)

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

The control (pwm) connector can be pretty finicky. Verify the green LED next to the correct relay port is lit on the DSC, then twiddle/replace the signal cable until it works.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

That is what the router is supposed to do, the red light signals that it is booting up. I assume you mean that it doesn't work when you enable the robot right? When you turn the robot on it shouldn't do anything at all until it is enabled. Other than that, it's probably either an issue with the wires and connections going to the spike and and pressure switch from the digital sidecar, a programming issue, or an issue with the pressure switch itself.

Try temporarily shorting the leads of the pressure switch while the robot is enabled, if this turns on the compressor, then you have a bad pressure switch. If that doesn't do anything, then make sure that the wires and their connectors are good and plugged in to the ports specified in the programming.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

The red light on the dlink is normal.

On the DSC, next to the connector for the compressor relay, is the light turning green? If not, you have a programming problem.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Do you have the code that controls the pneumatics? If so, can you share it?

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

All LEDs on the DSC are green, and I don't think it's a programming problem. We used the bot all throughout competition and our fairly simple code was never an issue for us. I might try shorting the leads on the pressure switch to see if I get any response.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

I'm not talking about the three green LEDs for 5V, 6V, and BAT, I'm talking about the row of LEDs next to the relay outputs.

Next to the relay port where the compressor's relay is plugged into, there should be a green light that comes on when the robot is enabled.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

No relay LED's illuminate when turned on.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Also, here is our robot's code, if that helps.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Hmm. You have the relay set to turn "On" with the operator's controls. You should use "Forward" instead of "On."

Anyway, you should check the operator's controls. That may be it.

Edit: Just realized it was rigged to a pressure switch. Sorry.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Spikes are extremely finicky. They were the bane of 100's offseason last year, I think we used our three timeouts at each of our three offseasons on fixing a spike that suddenly decided not to turn on when we enabled. Try switching out spikes, Pwm cables, and verify that when the robot is enabled, the relay output goes on as expected. And verify that the pressure switch is closed when the pressure is under 115 psi or so, and that it is connected correctly to the DSC.

One option if you're sick and tired of spikes breaking for the stupidest reasons, you can use a Talon instead. You will need to put the Talon on a regular PWM port on the DSC instead of a relay port, and you will need to change software, but it's an option that works. Keep in mind that this is illegal, but as long as you have a correctly working and programmed pressure switch and a correctly installed emergency relief valve on the compressor, this is just as safe as using a spike.

Like others have said, the router thing is normal.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Since the Compressor relay is configured as "forward only", setting it "On" will work fine.

Since you say you don't get a green LED next to the relay pins, the Spike LED will stay orange. Don't focus on the Spike until you get the proper response from the Digial Sidecar relay status LED.

How do you have your pressure switch wired? Specifically, which pins on the Digital Sidecar are connected to it?

Your code is well-instrumented with appropriate feedback via Network Tables. What do you see the pressure switch value doing when you run the code?

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

this is what our digital sidecar looks like (same robot as achen15)

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

I have no idea why, but the relay LED now turns on when we enable the robot (we have it plugged into #1). The cable where the LED lights up leads to the spike, but the spike is still orange. How do we get the spike to read green or red?

We also realized that whenever we unplug the pressure switch from the Digital I/O, the relay LED corresponding to the PWM cable going to the spike turns off. That's normal, correct?

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Yes, that's how it should be. When the DSC senses the pressure switch is open (ie, disconnected or over ~115psi), it turns the compressor relay off.

Basically, from what you're telling us, it seems like a PWM cable or spike problem at the moment. Try switching out the cable and/or spike with new ones until the light on the spike goes on.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

We replaced the spike and PWM cable, nothing has changed. Could it be a power distribution board issue at this point?

Edit: We also replaced the pressure switch. Nothing.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Have you tried changing the relay channel you are using?

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

No, but we would then have to switch it in the code right? We aren't proficient with the code so we don't know how to switch values. (our coder left without explaining anything to us)

Unless someone sends us screenshots on how to switch values in code (if that's what needs to happen), we kind of hit a wall.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Before you worry about changing code.
What you have seems to be working from a code perspective.

The Digital Sidecar Relay LED that's green means you should be able to read ~5v from the Relay pins there.

• Test the Relay output: Use a multimeter and measure the voltage on the Digital Sidecar from the Relay ground pin to each of the two signal pins.

If you get voltage then everything is fine and the problem isolates to be the PWM wire or the Spike.

• Test the PWM cable: Reconnect the PWM cable to the DSC Relay output and use the multimeter to measure for voltage at the far end of the PWM cable. Still should be ~5v

If you get voltage then the cable is fine and you've isolated the problem to be the Relay or how the PWM cable is plugged in to the Relay (could be backwards for instance).

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

I've found that in cases such as the OP is describing, the culprit isn't the cable or the spike per se, or even if it's plugged in backwards. It appears that the female PWM port is extremely "deep" in that it's both recessed very far into the packaging of the Spike and that the actual electrical contacts appear to be really far into the female PWM port in the spike. This means in my experience that the electrical connection between the spike and the PWM cable is often really flaky.

We had most success (IIRC, it's been about a year) with older spikes and with PWM cables with extremely long male pins. The idea was that the long pins should make better contact with the deeper female PWM port, and it appeared to work.

I really wish that spikes would be updated to include a better PWM port all around. I've never had a problem with Talons or Vics or Jags, but Spikes seem to have all around problems. Perhaps the newest run of them have had the problem addressed, but if not, I'm really hoping Vex will take note and fix the problem.

Speaking if which, aren't we overdue for a Spike update, especially with the new Vics and Talons coming out? It'll be a huge drag if our spikes are bigger than our fancy, CAN enabled full on Talons. And the new form factor would solve a lot of the stuff that bugs me about spikes.

By the way, OP, don't assume that you're seeing what I saw automatically. (Or, for that matter, that what any random person on the internet wrote is true.) Go through the troubleshooting steps suggested in this thread first,if nothing else, they'll help you learn more about electrical troubleshooting.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

So I switched out the spikes multiple times, it started to work but not consistently. I ended up testing a spike from 2003 that does not have a recessed PWM port, and that has been working consistently. I think it was a problem with the male end of the PWM cable not fitting well with the newer spikes that have recessed ports.

Oh well, I guess I have to figure out a way to protect the spike so the PWM cable doesn't bend over and snap the leads.

Re: Spike trouble with pneumatics, maybe dlink issue too?
 

Little off-topic, but I don't feel bad since the topic's been answered...

I'm doubting you're going to see a new form factor Spike. At least no anywhere near the current price point. The Spike is cheap and small because it's dumb relay logic protected by a fuse. I haven't busted one open, but I'd be surprised if the board had more than 15 components or so on a 2 layer PCB. Electromechanical relays and fuses can only get so small, and don't benefit from the passive cooling tech of the new Vics/Talons. If you wanted to make it significantly smaller, you're talking about moving from relays to FETs, with gate drivers, etc. It'd be a little simpler if you kept the fuse for protection, though that'd increase the size of things. If you ditch the fuse, you're adding overload detection circuitry and logic for it, etc. At which point you basically have a lobotomized Victor SP, though with the option of manually controlling both sides of the H-bridge.