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kstl99 29-09-2014 08:18

Re: Electrical basics
 
I work in custom automation. The only time soldering to a crimp terminal is allowed is when crimping onto a solid wire such as a resistor. I do like the idea of teaching students how to solder and properly done I can see that soldering would not be a problem, I too believe that with the proper tooling it is not needed and not acceptable in manufacturing. I prefer to teach the students the techniques that are acceptable in manufacturing, and those will last just as long.

FrankJ 29-09-2014 09:47

Re: Electrical basics
 
For those who say soldering a crimp connector is not allowed. Is that a standard, company policy, or long standing practice? One reason I ask is you can buy Mil-Spec solder connectors. The ones I know of have a mechanical strain relief after the solder joint & no crimp so this really is not an apples to apples comparison.

wireties 29-09-2014 22:24

Re: Electrical basics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankJ (Post 1402027)
For those who say soldering a crimp connector is not allowed. Is that a standard, company policy, or long standing practice? One reason I ask is you can buy Mil-Spec solder connectors. The ones I know of have a mechanical strain relief after the solder joint & no crimp so this really is not an apples to apples comparison.

In my case it is a military standard plus many of my industrial customers have similar restrictions in their quality guidelines. Agree about the mechanical relief, that is an ideal scenario.

AdamHeard 29-09-2014 22:31

Re: Electrical basics
 
We use soldered mil spec connectors on military product at work. The connector backshell has mechanical strain relief to the cable though.

wireties 29-09-2014 22:38

Re: Electrical basics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1402171)
We use soldered mil spec connectors on military product at work. The connector backshell has mechanical strain relief to the cable though.

Lots of ways it can be done - I think it comes down to using the connector, pins and strain relief "as designed". And for better or worse an engineer who designed a crimp connector most likely did not intend it also be soldered (or spend the money to have it tested and qualified with the addition of solder).

Michael Hill 30-09-2014 07:51

Re: Electrical basics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamHeard (Post 1402171)
We use soldered mil spec connectors on military product at work. The connector backshell has mechanical strain relief to the cable though.

Are you referring to Amphenol-like connectors?

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/pro...x?SKU=70011029

FrankJ 30-09-2014 09:33

Re: Electrical basics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1402212)
Are you referring to Amphenol-like connectors?

http://www.alliedelec.com/search/pro...x?SKU=70011029

That style was the one I was thinking of although that is the industrial version. You can often buy non mil-spec versions of mil-spec connectors for a lot less. Mil-spec can require a lot more testing & QA procedures which add to the cost. The material specs can be relaxed for the non mil-specs version as well. The Mil-Spec MIL-DTL-5015 for circular connector has apparently been superseded by SAE-AS50151.

RonnieS 02-10-2014 10:06

Re: Electrical basics
 
Do you guys buy the 45 amp or 30 amp APP connectors? Also, what experience do you have with the 15 amp versions for smaller wire? We use 12 gauge wire for all motors so the 30 amp will be fine but was wondering if we should maybe buy the 45 amp ones in case we decided to go up to 10 gauge wire? how do the 45 amp connectors crimp to 12 gauge wire?
-Ronnie

EDIT: Do you guys get the ones you can break apart or the ones fused together as one unit?

timytamy 02-10-2014 10:51

Re: Electrical basics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie314 (Post 1402547)
*snip*

We pretty much follow this chart:

We've used the 15A, 30A and 45A contacts on their respective gauges without a problem.

The amperage ratings on the contacts are slightly misleading. All the contacts are rated to 45A, however it's recommended you only pass the listed currents through as that is what APP considers safe for those gauges. eg you can put 45A through the 15A contact, however it's unlikely that the cable it's attached to will survive. That being said, always use an appropriate gauge for each circuit, and sized such that it is legal for the rules. However, if you have 18AWG wire on a 20A circuit (legal per 2014 rules) don't worry too much about using the 15A contact, it's more important you match the contact to the wire gauge than the contact to the current.

We also tend to buy the fused connectors. The vast majority of our cables only need the conventional red/black combination, it's easier than roll pins or glue, and the slight extra cost is negligible. However we do keep a few loose ones about for when they're needed.

Finally I highly recommend getting the TRIcrimp tool for the PowerPoles, it's very easy to use and will crimp all three sizes (to the appropriate sized cable). They're available from Powerwerx and Andymark.

Al Skierkiewicz 02-10-2014 11:20

Re: Electrical basics
 
We have found that the 30 amp contacts can be slightly spread open to make inserting #10 easy. They are slightly large for #12 but a little tight for the #10. WE also now stock the 45 amp which is fine for #10. We use the West Mountain Raido crimper which does all three sizes. I am not entirely happy about the job on the 45 amp though.

Thad House 02-10-2014 11:27

Re: Electrical basics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz (Post 1402558)
We have found that the 30 amp contacts can be slightly spread open to make inserting #10 easy. They are slightly large for #12 but a little tight for the #10. WE also now stock the 45 amp which is fine for #10. We use the West Mountain Raido crimper which does all three sizes. I am not entirely happy about the job on the 45 amp though.

Can you use the 30 amp on a 40 amp circuit? We've always used the 30 amps for 20 and 30 amp circuits, and the 45 amps for 40 amp circuits, because we thought you always had to use a connector rated higher.

FrankJ 02-10-2014 12:51

Re: Electrical basics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad House (Post 1402562)
Can you use the 30 amp on a 40 amp circuit? We've always used the 30 amps for 20 and 30 amp circuits, and the 45 amps for 40 amp circuits, because we thought you always had to use a connector rated higher.

The contacts will mate as long as the connector body is the same size. In FRC terms, the wire size govern the size breaker you use. The bigger concern is having the crimp side fit the wire. Having a poor crimp from the wire not fitting the contact, will cause more heat issues than using the "incorrect" contact. Of course you could always use solder. :]

Thad House 02-10-2014 12:57

Re: Electrical basics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankJ (Post 1402578)
The contacts will mate as long as the connector body is the same size. In FRC terms, the wire size govern the size breaker you use. The bigger concern is having the crimp side fit the wire. Having a poor crimp from the wire not fitting the contact, will cause more heat issues than using the "incorrect" contact. Of course you could always use solder. :]

I get that, but it looked like Al was saying that they use 30 amp crimps for 10 awg wire, which I would guess is being used in a 40 amp circuit. Which I always thought everything in the circuit had to be rated for 40 amps or more if using a 40 amp breaker.

RonnieS 02-10-2014 13:25

Re: Electrical basics
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thad House (Post 1402581)
I get that, but it looked like Al was saying that they use 30 amp crimps for 10 awg wire, which I would guess is being used in a 40 amp circuit. Which I always thought everything in the circuit had to be rated for 40 amps or more if using a 40 amp breaker.

I am wondering the same thing too. But as of now, ill be using the 30 amp ones for 12 gauge and the 15 amp for 18 gauge. We don't use 10 gauge wire right now so I am seeing no need to get them.

FrankJ 02-10-2014 13:33

Re: Electrical basics
 
Realize the battery plugs are "rated" for 50 amps & is on a 120 amp breaker. 6 gauge wire is rated for 101 amps for chassis wiring. But all these ratings are for continuous service. In FRC you are limited by battery size & match length.

Anyway back to the PP-45s. If you look on the data sheet, the rating comes from the UL rating based on 65 C or largest cable size. We are an edge case where peak current is much greater than average current. After heavy use, you can grab the connector without burning yourself, I wouldn't worry about it much. Build a panel that is going to be inspected by an UL inspector is a different subject.


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