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-   -   What does it take to be a good engineer? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130722)

IronicDeadBird 08-10-2014 13:30

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankJ (Post 1403408)
So
Scientists are mostly concerned with why something works
Engineers are mostly concerned with how something works
Technicians are mostly concerned with making something work

Regardless of your profession, you need to be a little all three.

And as someone thinking about a psych major I just want to know how all that makes you feel...
Sorry couldn't help it.

Yesterday I had a talk with some new members on the team and one of the biggest concerns they have about being good is the confidence involved. I was confused until I realized if you stop and think about power tools, about the resources involved, about everything that makes robotics FUN, it all could be seen as dangerous.

techhelpbb 08-10-2014 14:01

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1403430)
Yesterday I had a talk with some new members on the team and one of the biggest concerns they have about being good is the confidence involved. I was confused until I realized if you stop and think about power tools, about the resources involved, about everything that makes robotics FUN, it all could be seen as dangerous.

A good machinist, wood worker or artist knows the tools and shop.

A disproportionate number of shop related accidents actually happen to people who are very experienced.

In another topic I mentioned fulfillment. Well that 'habit' part of doing something can lead to being careless. It takes from the experience the element of fear that is your warning that you need to exercise due caution.

'I do it all the time! It's no problem!'

I once had to take someone to the hospital to have a hand reattached after he made beautiful wood work for 40 years. He was older, on blood thinners and tired. A great combination to cut his hand right off on the table saw.

I recently had a very experienced shop foreman certify me for working in his shop. 1 month later he was in an ambulance because he got a woodshop router into his arm while running.

Danger should be managed with care and responsibility.
The mere presence of risk does not make an activity too risky to do.
The inability to manage or control the risk within reason does.

FIRST gives you the opportunity to learn how to handle these tools and understand the risks.
Consider the alternative. Perhaps you buy them and try this in your basement without the benefit of guidance.

IronicDeadBird 08-10-2014 15:26

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by techhelpbb (Post 1403434)
A good machinist, wood worker or artist knows the tools and shop.

A disproportionate number of shop related accidents actually happen to people who are very experienced.

In another topic I mentioned fulfillment. Well that 'habit' part of doing something can lead to being careless. It takes from the experience the element of fear that is your warning that you need to exercise due caution.

'I do it all the time! It's no problem!'

I once had to take someone to the hospital to have a hand reattached after he made beautiful wood work for 40 years. He was older, on blood thinners and tired. A great combination to cut his hand right off on the table saw.

I recently had a very experienced shop foreman certify me for working in his shop. 1 month later he was in an ambulance because he got a woodshop router into his arm while running.

Danger should be managed with care and responsibility.
The mere presence of risk does not make an activity too risky to do.
The inability to manage or control the risk within reason does.

FIRST gives you the opportunity to learn how to handle these tools and understand the risks.
Consider the alternative. Perhaps you buy them and try this in your basement without the benefit of guidance.

I don't know where to start. I just agree with everything right off the bat. The issue is what I struggle at in one aspect is that I have a hard time empowering people into thinking that what they do is making a difference, even when what they do exposes them to situations that aren't favorable to them. At what point am I inflating ego and not actually helping?
It doesn't matter to me how good of an engineer someone is when you are a mentor because your job is to facilitate the growth of positive traits.

techhelpbb 08-10-2014 15:45

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1403455)
The issue is what I struggle at in one aspect is that I have a hard time empowering people into thinking that what they do is making a difference, even when what they do exposes them to situations that aren't favorable to them.

I have a friend that thinks NASA is a terrible idea that straps talented people to tons of explosive force and shoots them into an environment where at any moment a tiny piece of rock might cost them all the air they have to survive.

It's interesting...if it was my choice to be strapped to that rocket and launched I would ask what business is it of his to invalidate this risk?

I was a valedictorian of a vocational school in electronics. It helped I was already working professionally before I was in high school. The school used to start classes like this: 'Here you are adults. You wanna kill each other we won't stop you...take it outside we will involve the police. You cause trouble go ahead and loose the opportunity and prove you are not adults.'

Part of being adults is to take off the training wheels. It confounds me that modern society thinks that when you turn a certain age - you are magically endowed with the skills needed to understand, withstand and determine the risks you will take.

Maybe we ought to try exposing these future leaders to some managed risk so they can understand what they are about to encounter before we assume that not doing so is actually less risky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1403455)
At what point am I inflating ego and not actually helping?

I think that when you teach a child to walk one makes a big deal.
Even potty training is a sort of a big deal.
I am pretty sure that has been working out longer than either of us have survived (then again I've been in a men's room at a competition!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1403455)
It doesn't matter to me how good of an engineer someone is when you are a mentor because your job is to facilitate the growth of positive traits.

Positive reinforcement for the moment does not mean you don't follow it up with exposure to an even bigger challenge. I know that seems sort of like those you mentor are Pavlov's dogs but repetition is an ancient teaching method.

JesseK 08-10-2014 15:52

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by techhelpbb (Post 1403461)
It's interesting...if it was my choice to be strapped to that rocket and launched I would ask what business is it of his to invalidate this risk?

(Sidetrack) My wife has already approved me going into space, just once. Space rocks and all. (woo!) All from a conversation about the legitimacy of spending 300+ hours in 1.5 years on Kerbal Space Program.

Though I dunno what you're trying to say - sounds like your friend wasn't invalidating the risk so much as he was emphasizing it. Invalidating the point of NASA maybe? Again, sorry for the side track.

techhelpbb 08-10-2014 15:58

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 1403463)
(Sidetrack)...
Though I dunno what you're trying to say - sounds like your friend wasn't invalidating the risk so much as he was emphasizing it. Invalidating the point of NASA maybe? Again, sorry for the side track.

The implication underlying his idea is that these people are somehow victims of a bad idea.

Cause why take the risk? He thinks it has no pay off worth it.

Why figure out how to fly? You might get too close to the sun!

I just had a good friend die in a diving accident. Why go diving?
There can't be anything worth it under those vast oceans...[sarcasm]

The logical follow up to his thinking: why fund NASA at all?
Never let us mind that the will of the Federal Constitutional Republic we live in decided to fund it (and these days fund it less).

Let's complete the loop:
If you might cut your hand off on the table saw, why are my tax dollars going to fund wood shop?

A beauty of FIRST: a whole bunch of the funds that keep it going are from donations from like minded individuals.
So that doubting person can not argue that their tax dollars give them the right to stop it cold.
They also can't argue that we elevated the risk to people who are forced to be here.
Experience has shown me vocational programs can be destroyed by simply closing off the funds.

Not everyone that takes wood shop will be an expert at carving or make furniture or be fulfilled by it.
Not everyone that does something in FIRST will like it or be fulfilled by it.
How would you know if you did not try?
How would you try if you never had this opportunity?

The day I decided to discontinue my college major I was confronted by a department head that told me straight up:
you are wasting your time with this robotics thing...I told you what you need to know to get ahead.
I told him that this was about giving other people a fraction of the opportunities I had as a kid because of my unique situation.

That was the 1st year I mentored for FIRST and nearly 20 years later I make more money than a lot of doctorates and FIRST is still here and so is Team 11.
I took a risk, I guess it paid off, have doubts if you will but just remember I am an adult it was my choice to take this risk.
Had FIRST or Team 11 gone bust any consequences were potentially mine as well.

To put this in perspective:
My brother was also valedictorian at the same vocational school.
Took the same major.
Went on to his bachelor's degree.
Worked for a place that helped him get that degree.
Moved on to a higher salary.
Does great work but his company basically imploded.
Is currently looking for work because almost everyone is out on the street.
He knew the risks, he made the call, he knows the consequences.

Even if this had gone terribly wrong for me - I did what I did for the reasons I believe in.


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