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-   -   What does it take to be a good engineer? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130722)

raystubbs 04-10-2014 09:13

What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
In your opinion are some key traits that make a good engineer? What defines and engineer?

DonRotolo 04-10-2014 10:51

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Creativity is important. Some call it thinking out of the box, but developing good solutions to problems requires you to first imagine the solution, then do the math to make it work.

Focus and discipline: You can't do the work without it. Implies a good work ethic.

Intelligence: You can't do any of this if you are grossly uneducated* or not "that kind" of thinker. I work with highly creative people who are outstanding workers who couldn't figure out how to make a paper bag from a sheet of paper. But a sense f color and appeal, off the charts.

Desire to learn: You have to be insanely curious about things. Always asking Why and then finding out. Also called Fascination.

(*not necessarily formal education)

Funny thing is, you really don't have to be Excellent at math, just persistent enough to pass. I don't like math, myself.

Live the scientific method: Almost everything I do - work, home, anything - is a series of experiments in a way. I do the experiment, examine the results, and see if I can improve. The hardest one is people: They change over time in unpredictable ways.

Humor. Don't take everything so seriously, workahol is an addictive drug.

Be well-rounded: Strive to know a little about everything (but don't put yourself out there as a know-it-all). That'll help with the 'creativity' and problem-solving stuff.

There's so much more, but those are my thoughts for now.


EDIT: Yes, communication is critical, possibly more than any of the above. You not only have to clearly describe highly complex things to the layman, you have to do it right: Any grammar or spelling mistakes and you immediately lose all credibility.

Yes, any grammer or speling misteaks and you loose credability. I cant beleve I forget that.

wireties 04-10-2014 17:19

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Math skills, intellectual curiosity, work ethic and stubborness

Ether 04-10-2014 17:39

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 


Communication skills, both verbal and written.

And yes, that includes grammar.



wireties 04-10-2014 18:26

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ether (Post 1402903)


Communication skills, both verbal and written.

And yes, that includes grammar.



QFT

Michael Hill 04-10-2014 20:22

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Being able to admit when you're wrong.

Confidence in your work is important, but don't let cockiness get in the way of admitting when you're wrong.

Effectively communicating your ideas is also important. Both verbal and written communication are important.

raystubbs 04-10-2014 23:18

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Those who have said that confidence is good, but cockiness is bad have, in a few sentences, earned my utmost respect. Humility, I think, is important in life itself, not just engineering. But I think it is especially important for engineers because of their interaction with others of their field, and the high respect that others have for them.

Big Ideas 05-10-2014 00:20

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ether (Post 1402903)


Communication skills, both verbal and written.

And yes, that includes grammar.



This is my new answer for the VERY important engineering skill that is not talked about enough. The reason is simple. Your job as an engineer is not DONE until you give the product of your work to someone else. That is, you have to communicate with others in a way that they understand what it is you did. Paper for research, Drawings and manufacturing methods for designs, Presentations and discussions for design reviews. Technical descriptions, process plans, detail drawings, Powerpoint presentations to introduce and describe ideas. These are all part of my daily life as a mechanical design engineer.

EricH 05-10-2014 01:28

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Speaking as a technician who has to deal with the results of engineering, I couldn't agree more on communication. And remember, it's a two-way street. The technicians who have to deal with you will probably not accept a "it's good as it is" if they have to spend extra time dealing with whatever you didn't account for. (And if they deal with what you designed a lot, they probably know where its weak points are at better than you do.) But if you listen to why it's not what's needed, and how to improve it, and especially if you do something about it, the techs are going to listen a lot better, and work with you a lot more, than if you simply dismiss them or don't listen.

Mr. Mike 05-10-2014 10:36

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
A good engineer will never stop learning. From his peers, technicians, and competitors. The field is just to vast for any one person to know it all.

IKE 05-10-2014 11:03

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
I would personally say that engineering is in many ways the application of physics or other sciences. Because of this, I think one of the most important traits of a good engineer is being able to figure out how "things" work, and using that knowledge to apply it to solutions.
While we often think of engineering and "invention" in the same line, invention is often the re-application of other inventions or ideas.

I specifically use the word "things" above as the "things" can vary a lot. "Things" could be a complex mechanical machine, electrical circuts, a piece of code, buildings, cities, or even people.

techhelpbb 06-10-2014 23:53

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Persistence, patience and healthy dose of reality.

You did not fail.
You tried something that did not work despite best effort and you can prove it with a realistic analysis of the evidence.

Patience because people, politicians and life are generally frustrating.
If everyone else jumped off a bridge would you?
Sure you would if they all rush you hard enough!
Once you clear the edge - the 'wanted to' part is less relevant.

Knowing how to get stuff done with what you have is the name of the game for engineers. Science hands you the pieces. You have to figure out how to apply that knowledge to make it useful. With skill and some luck your solution stands the test of time.

Communications is a valuable skill but realistically if you are not persistent in finding the most effective communications for a particular audience you are just wasting opportunity. Politicians look at it differently. You have to find the simplest way to grab your target audience and bring them along. Simplicity makes it easy to convince people that something is transparent (even if that catch phrase is a total bold face lie based on no evidence what so ever).

anthonyttu 07-10-2014 09:32

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Curiosity, wanting to understand how and why, and taking the time and effort to go figure it out yourself.

IronicDeadBird 07-10-2014 13:38

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Insane amounts of tenacity seem to be something I notice in a lot of engineers.
Another interesting one is a "loud mouth" or the ability to step up to authority figures and question and always look for better ways of doing things.

gblake 07-10-2014 13:57

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Some of the replies so far are descriptions of what it takes to be a good "____" (you fill in the blank). In that sense they are excellent advice, and it's useful to know that that advice does apply to Engineering, but that also means something is still missing.

In the OP, the author asked "In your opinion are some key traits that make a good engineer? What defines and engineer?" That second question is a crucial one. I think you have to answer it before answering the first.

I have a pet peeve that rejects the flood of popular definitions that say and engineer is someone who solves problems, blah, blah, blah. Instead I stick with the notion that scientists discover the relationships that describe how the universe behaves, and engineers apply those relationships to make things.

Similar explicitly expressed thoughts from other posters are:
Quote:

Knowing how to get stuff done with what you have is the name of the game for engineers. Science hands you the pieces. You have to figure out how to apply that knowledge to make it useful.
Quote:

engineering is in many ways the application of physics or other sciences
In practice, there is obviously tremendous overlap, between the two activities I described, and in practice people trained to be scientists or engineers perform a wide variety of other tasks (everything from cooking to creative writing to accounting and project management).

My point is that if you want to be a good engineer, you must be good at getting things done by understanding and applying the relationships scientists have discovered. That is what uniquely (IMO) makes a person an engineer.

OBTW, it helps to get things done, that the rest of your community cares about (knowing what to do is as important as knowing how to do it). ;) A two-way street exists.

In parallel, if you want to be successful at almost anything (and engineering is absolutely included in the list), with rare exception, you need all of the communication, humor, humility, etc. skills other folks have listed here.

Blake

Michael Hill 07-10-2014 14:01

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gblake (Post 1403241)
What defines and engineer

Obviously, an engineer solves problems that currently exist, and a scientist solves problems that don't yet exist. :D

techhelpbb 07-10-2014 14:25

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1403243)
Obviously, an engineer solves problems that currently exist, and a scientist solves problems that don't yet exist. :D

Not always true, see for example the history of Gorilla Glass:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorilla_Glass

I am sure someone thought that was a real waste of engineering.
While I type that on an iPhone display.

Kevin Ainsworth 07-10-2014 14:25

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
A good engineer learns why something works the way it does.
You must understand how all the interactions play their part and affect each other.
If you recite what someone else said, that doesn't mean you understand it.
Learn each thing firsthand for yourself so you truly understand it.
Then understand how these different principles work with or against each other.
Fully understand the problem before coming up with a solution.
All the book smarts in the world won't get you to the finish line.
Theorizing and arguing won't teach you anything.
Testing, prototyping and understanding will take you a long way.
In the end, it comes down to experience.

Ether 07-10-2014 14:51

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin Ainsworth (Post 1403247)
Theorizing ... won't teach you anything.

You may want to clarify what you mean by that.



rick.oliver 07-10-2014 15:21

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
A passion for excellence and a sense of urgency.

JamesCH95 07-10-2014 16:58

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Beyond communication - emotional intelligence. Being able to read someone you're working with/for/over has an immense impact on your (and your team's) productivity.

Being able to understand the larger (and smaller) implications of your work is very important. I.e. seeing the forest and the tress at the same time will help keep your work relevant and useful.

Most other points I consider valuable have been touched on (or beaten to death) already.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1403243)
Obviously, an engineer solves problems that currently exist, and a scientist solves problems that don't yet exist. :D

Ugh. I don't like this quip (and those like it). It makes engineers sound second-rate to scientists when in fact the scientist-engineer relationship is an equal partnership - you can't engineer without scientific principles and you can't investigate science without engineered equipment.

I prefer this quote from Einstein: "Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been."

[/peeve]

Michael Hill 07-10-2014 18:37

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JamesCH95 (Post 1403275)
Beyond communication - emotional intelligence. Being able to read someone you're working with/for/over has an immense impact on your (and your team's) productivity.

Being able to understand the larger (and smaller) implications of your work is very important. I.e. seeing the forest and the tress at the same time will help keep your work relevant and useful.

Most other points I consider valuable have been touched on (or beaten to death) already.



Ugh. I don't like this quip (and those like it). It makes engineers sound second-rate to scientists when in fact the scientist-engineer relationship is an equal partnership - you can't engineer without scientific principles and you can't investigate science without engineered equipment.

I prefer this quote from Einstein: "Scientists investigate that which already is; Engineers create that which has never been."

[/peeve]

I was only kidding...

EricH 07-10-2014 20:23

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hill (Post 1403296)
I was only kidding...

You forgot that engineers...

...have no sense of humor. :rolleyes: :p

(Those smilies are only there for the people that might actually believe that...)

jpetito 07-10-2014 21:52

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
How many engineers do you know who can design and math you under the table, but can't wrench their way out of a wet paper bag? Or design elegant stuff that can't be built?

The practical application aspect of what we've labeled Engineering is hugely overlooked in the current environment. The theory, the academic, the theoretical must be hitched to experience with the Real Stuff in order to Make Things Work, and those we put on the design pedestal have to earn their keep so the welders and wrenchers and electricians and pneumaticists can build gear fitting their vision.

JesseK 08-10-2014 09:46

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Coopertition: Succeed in an endeavor even while working with people you do not agree with and without drinking their Kool-Aid.

Diplomacy: Nicely telling another engineer that they are probably wrong about something abstract, gently proving it, and professionally leading the team to the right long-term solution.

Enthusiasm: The instant an engineer stops proactively learning is the instant the engineer should become a manager. Not that being a manager with a engineering background is a bad thing, but technology moves too bleedingly fast these days.

Humility: Become self-conscious about what is not known, and admit it. Your peers will get behind you faster. Learn Empathy from Coopertition.

You don't know Jack: Maybe you think you do, but 3 years from now you will realize that you actually don't. You don't know Jack is a perpetual cycle...

Concise: Do not drone on about a technical topic, especially to non-engineers. Doing so typically has the appearance of arrogance due to lack of knowing what the audience actually wants.

MrForbes 08-10-2014 09:57

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jpetito (Post 1403336)
How many engineers do you know who can design and math you under the table, but can't wrench their way out of a wet paper bag? Or design elegant stuff that can't be built?

I highly value the 3 years I spent working part time at an auto salvage yard, while I was in engineering school.

techhelpbb 08-10-2014 11:03

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
It is always nice to be able to 'close the loop' on a manufacturing process.

Whether that is accomplished by handing off a project for review and manufacture to that department and have an excellent feedback process in place or by going down and getting your hands into the process is generally a question of the situation.

I like having my own tools, even if they are not quite on the scale of what I would want to turn production on. Then if there are some particular sensitive pieces with unusual fit or finish needs I can focus on that while production of the remainder moves forward.

Ideally you want to design things so that they can be mass produced without resorting to precision fitting but when you reach the physical limitations of the materials or situation involved sometimes you just have to make do.

Plus if I get an idea at 3AM I can crank up the tools and explore.

FrankJ 08-10-2014 11:18

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
So
Scientists are mostly concerned with why something works
Engineers are mostly concerned with how something works
Technicians are mostly concerned with making something work

Regardless of your profession, you need to be a little all three.

JamesCH95 08-10-2014 11:44

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jpetito (Post 1403336)
How many engineers do you know who can design and math you under the table, but can't wrench their way out of a wet paper bag? Or design elegant stuff that can't be built?

The practical application aspect of what we've labeled Engineering is hugely overlooked in the current environment. The theory, the academic, the theoretical must be hitched to experience with the Real Stuff in order to Make Things Work, and those we put on the design pedestal have to earn their keep so the welders and wrenchers and electricians and pneumaticists can build gear fitting their vision.

Some. But I don't really care if the guy making the coupled Eulerian-Lagrangian model for my project can turn a wrench, I care that he understands the theory behind his work and will validate his model against emperical data.

We don't all have to be experts in practicality. What we all DO need are open and effective lines of communication and enough humility to listen and carefully consider criticisms to our work.

Ether 08-10-2014 12:35

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jpetito (Post 1403336)
How many engineers do you know who can design and math you under the table, but can't wrench their way out of a wet paper bag?.

I encountered very few in my engineering career spanning 4 decades.

Fortunately, I also encountered few technicians who were so uniformed that they used an impact wrench when the assembly instructions call for a torque wrench.



IronicDeadBird 08-10-2014 13:30

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankJ (Post 1403408)
So
Scientists are mostly concerned with why something works
Engineers are mostly concerned with how something works
Technicians are mostly concerned with making something work

Regardless of your profession, you need to be a little all three.

And as someone thinking about a psych major I just want to know how all that makes you feel...
Sorry couldn't help it.

Yesterday I had a talk with some new members on the team and one of the biggest concerns they have about being good is the confidence involved. I was confused until I realized if you stop and think about power tools, about the resources involved, about everything that makes robotics FUN, it all could be seen as dangerous.

techhelpbb 08-10-2014 14:01

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1403430)
Yesterday I had a talk with some new members on the team and one of the biggest concerns they have about being good is the confidence involved. I was confused until I realized if you stop and think about power tools, about the resources involved, about everything that makes robotics FUN, it all could be seen as dangerous.

A good machinist, wood worker or artist knows the tools and shop.

A disproportionate number of shop related accidents actually happen to people who are very experienced.

In another topic I mentioned fulfillment. Well that 'habit' part of doing something can lead to being careless. It takes from the experience the element of fear that is your warning that you need to exercise due caution.

'I do it all the time! It's no problem!'

I once had to take someone to the hospital to have a hand reattached after he made beautiful wood work for 40 years. He was older, on blood thinners and tired. A great combination to cut his hand right off on the table saw.

I recently had a very experienced shop foreman certify me for working in his shop. 1 month later he was in an ambulance because he got a woodshop router into his arm while running.

Danger should be managed with care and responsibility.
The mere presence of risk does not make an activity too risky to do.
The inability to manage or control the risk within reason does.

FIRST gives you the opportunity to learn how to handle these tools and understand the risks.
Consider the alternative. Perhaps you buy them and try this in your basement without the benefit of guidance.

IronicDeadBird 08-10-2014 15:26

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by techhelpbb (Post 1403434)
A good machinist, wood worker or artist knows the tools and shop.

A disproportionate number of shop related accidents actually happen to people who are very experienced.

In another topic I mentioned fulfillment. Well that 'habit' part of doing something can lead to being careless. It takes from the experience the element of fear that is your warning that you need to exercise due caution.

'I do it all the time! It's no problem!'

I once had to take someone to the hospital to have a hand reattached after he made beautiful wood work for 40 years. He was older, on blood thinners and tired. A great combination to cut his hand right off on the table saw.

I recently had a very experienced shop foreman certify me for working in his shop. 1 month later he was in an ambulance because he got a woodshop router into his arm while running.

Danger should be managed with care and responsibility.
The mere presence of risk does not make an activity too risky to do.
The inability to manage or control the risk within reason does.

FIRST gives you the opportunity to learn how to handle these tools and understand the risks.
Consider the alternative. Perhaps you buy them and try this in your basement without the benefit of guidance.

I don't know where to start. I just agree with everything right off the bat. The issue is what I struggle at in one aspect is that I have a hard time empowering people into thinking that what they do is making a difference, even when what they do exposes them to situations that aren't favorable to them. At what point am I inflating ego and not actually helping?
It doesn't matter to me how good of an engineer someone is when you are a mentor because your job is to facilitate the growth of positive traits.

techhelpbb 08-10-2014 15:45

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1403455)
The issue is what I struggle at in one aspect is that I have a hard time empowering people into thinking that what they do is making a difference, even when what they do exposes them to situations that aren't favorable to them.

I have a friend that thinks NASA is a terrible idea that straps talented people to tons of explosive force and shoots them into an environment where at any moment a tiny piece of rock might cost them all the air they have to survive.

It's interesting...if it was my choice to be strapped to that rocket and launched I would ask what business is it of his to invalidate this risk?

I was a valedictorian of a vocational school in electronics. It helped I was already working professionally before I was in high school. The school used to start classes like this: 'Here you are adults. You wanna kill each other we won't stop you...take it outside we will involve the police. You cause trouble go ahead and loose the opportunity and prove you are not adults.'

Part of being adults is to take off the training wheels. It confounds me that modern society thinks that when you turn a certain age - you are magically endowed with the skills needed to understand, withstand and determine the risks you will take.

Maybe we ought to try exposing these future leaders to some managed risk so they can understand what they are about to encounter before we assume that not doing so is actually less risky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1403455)
At what point am I inflating ego and not actually helping?

I think that when you teach a child to walk one makes a big deal.
Even potty training is a sort of a big deal.
I am pretty sure that has been working out longer than either of us have survived (then again I've been in a men's room at a competition!).

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1403455)
It doesn't matter to me how good of an engineer someone is when you are a mentor because your job is to facilitate the growth of positive traits.

Positive reinforcement for the moment does not mean you don't follow it up with exposure to an even bigger challenge. I know that seems sort of like those you mentor are Pavlov's dogs but repetition is an ancient teaching method.

JesseK 08-10-2014 15:52

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by techhelpbb (Post 1403461)
It's interesting...if it was my choice to be strapped to that rocket and launched I would ask what business is it of his to invalidate this risk?

(Sidetrack) My wife has already approved me going into space, just once. Space rocks and all. (woo!) All from a conversation about the legitimacy of spending 300+ hours in 1.5 years on Kerbal Space Program.

Though I dunno what you're trying to say - sounds like your friend wasn't invalidating the risk so much as he was emphasizing it. Invalidating the point of NASA maybe? Again, sorry for the side track.

techhelpbb 08-10-2014 15:58

Re: What does it take to be a good engineer?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JesseK (Post 1403463)
(Sidetrack)...
Though I dunno what you're trying to say - sounds like your friend wasn't invalidating the risk so much as he was emphasizing it. Invalidating the point of NASA maybe? Again, sorry for the side track.

The implication underlying his idea is that these people are somehow victims of a bad idea.

Cause why take the risk? He thinks it has no pay off worth it.

Why figure out how to fly? You might get too close to the sun!

I just had a good friend die in a diving accident. Why go diving?
There can't be anything worth it under those vast oceans...[sarcasm]

The logical follow up to his thinking: why fund NASA at all?
Never let us mind that the will of the Federal Constitutional Republic we live in decided to fund it (and these days fund it less).

Let's complete the loop:
If you might cut your hand off on the table saw, why are my tax dollars going to fund wood shop?

A beauty of FIRST: a whole bunch of the funds that keep it going are from donations from like minded individuals.
So that doubting person can not argue that their tax dollars give them the right to stop it cold.
They also can't argue that we elevated the risk to people who are forced to be here.
Experience has shown me vocational programs can be destroyed by simply closing off the funds.

Not everyone that takes wood shop will be an expert at carving or make furniture or be fulfilled by it.
Not everyone that does something in FIRST will like it or be fulfilled by it.
How would you know if you did not try?
How would you try if you never had this opportunity?

The day I decided to discontinue my college major I was confronted by a department head that told me straight up:
you are wasting your time with this robotics thing...I told you what you need to know to get ahead.
I told him that this was about giving other people a fraction of the opportunities I had as a kid because of my unique situation.

That was the 1st year I mentored for FIRST and nearly 20 years later I make more money than a lot of doctorates and FIRST is still here and so is Team 11.
I took a risk, I guess it paid off, have doubts if you will but just remember I am an adult it was my choice to take this risk.
Had FIRST or Team 11 gone bust any consequences were potentially mine as well.

To put this in perspective:
My brother was also valedictorian at the same vocational school.
Took the same major.
Went on to his bachelor's degree.
Worked for a place that helped him get that degree.
Moved on to a higher salary.
Does great work but his company basically imploded.
Is currently looking for work because almost everyone is out on the street.
He knew the risks, he made the call, he knows the consequences.

Even if this had gone terribly wrong for me - I did what I did for the reasons I believe in.


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