Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

But if it can't supply enough current to do any harm, what's the worry?

Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

Good question.

Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

Won't the isolation transformer output float with respect to the input? (If there was a predictable potential difference, even 0 V, they'd be coupled, not isolated.) And if it's floating, than you don't know if there's 1 V or 1 000 V with respect to the PD ground at any given instant, so verifying compliance with R40 would be impractical.

(I realize there's some degree of coupling in an isolation transformer, but is that reliable enough to pin down the voltage between them? I doubt it.)

Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

As for being unsafe, most small hobby-style electroluminescent kits wouldn't usually be unsafe, unless you pierced your skin with the wires, and perhaps not even then. But the question did not specify the kind of electroluminescent equipment, and it's definitely possible to design a system to have high enough current to do harm, in addition to high enough voltage to arc dangerously.

But that's why we have R8. (R40 supplements it in this case.) And as a result, there's no need for a ruling on electroluminescent systems in general.

Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

EL systems are very safe (unless you are running a *very* long strand/lots of EL lights). Adafruit.com always show people how they can use it in costumes and decorations. They have masks with glowing EL eyes and costumes with the EL wire sown in. I don't think that they would do that if it wasn't safe. A big advantage to EL over LED is that it takes up a relatively low amount of energy. This also is a reason why it is safe. Also, EL tape/pads can be cut to whatever shape you want.

For me, though, I would not put it on anywhere but a protected part of the robot. I wouldn't want to have it get smashed and shorted out. I would definitely place it inside logo cutouts and around the inside of the frame for a glowing look.

I feel like it should be allowed, but only if it is inside the frame (not running along the outside). Hopefully they can change this for next year!

Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

I think we generally agree. I'm mainly pointing out that it's not the technology that's the problem, it's the implementation. (For example, this might be problematic on an FRC robot, though you'd presumably need a whole lot of panels to justify its capacity.) Fortunately, we have procedures in place to deal with stupid implementations.

That may be a fair assumption, but it's hard to make rules on the basis of their commitment to avoid killing their customers.

Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

Dave and magnets,
In order for 100 volts to provide only a mild sensation the current would have to be severely current limited to something in the microamp range. According to this site... http://elbestbuy.com/elwitein.html 1 meter of wire could require 10 mamp at 2kHz. So when we look at an inverter that is making 100 v RMS (that is 288 volts peak to peak) at 2kHz (as the 12 volt model on the Sparkfun site that is capable of running 15 feet of wire does) you are talking some seriously high and dangerous voltage. To give you an idea, the GFI in your bathroom must operate to open the circuit at 4 mamp or above. So even if the inverter did float the input and output, a simple failure of the wiring, a piece of heatshrink that is not capable of holding off 288 volts, a pinched wire, a robot hit, could potentially put the robot frame at high voltage. This not only puts participants at risk, it puts robot systems and control devices at risk. The 24 volts on the current PD when put across the robot frame in contact with another robot with an wiring issue will take out both cRIOs. I find it unsettling that a tech support guy at a firm like Sparkfun would say that the inverter will only produce a mildly discomforting shock. It is information like that that gets people dead. While a balloon may make a couple of microamps at several thousand volts of discharge, that is enough to take out electronics, permanently. LEDs are so much nicer, take a look at ours.
BTW, most DVMs cannot accurately read RMS voltage at 2kHz as that exceeds the input frequency response of the meter.

Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

That's actually a very good point. If you accidentally send 100v through your roboRIO, I don't think it would like it very much... (I know that you can short any pin on the roboRIO and it will be fine, but I don't think they intend for 100v going across something)::ouch::

Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

Something else for the beta teams to test...

Re: Is EL Lighting legal ?
 

Chad,
Knowing that NI is one of those great industrial controls companies, one of the things they do in design and then testing is to plan for electrostatic discharges near and to their equipment. There are actually electric "guns" that cause a discharge that is repeatable for testing. In the industry we call these "lightning strikes" but the equipment is designed to survive most of those and keep on ticking. That is one of the reasons that the case of the cRio is at power supply common. In the field it is intended to be "grounded" to power line ground or building ground to prevent electrical issues and to drain the high voltage spikes away from the sensitive controller.