Chief Delphi - Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

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Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)

- Technical Discussion (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22)

- - Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131211)

themccannman

23-11-2014 14:35

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Here's out latest white paper on the electronic scouting system we have. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3037

We use tablets instead of laptops because they are considerably cheaper, smaller, and lighter. Be sure to get a high quality switch and cables if you're going to have everything wired together, we used a hardwired system in our first iteration two years ago and had constant problems with disconnecting. Using the tablet's bluetooth has been much easier and much more reliable and now people don't trip over our spider web while trying to get to the bathroom. Also, unless you tether with someone's cell phone having an offline server doesn't allow for any real time data analysis. We purchased a cheap data plan for two of our tablets which upload the data from the 6 other tablets to a virtual server. Then we can do live calculations on that server which makes the data available to be pulled down by a smart phone app made for our drive coach so that he can check team stats in real time before matches.

Most of this stuff came after a year of working on our system though so don't bite off more than you can chew, get a simple system that works well going first then start adding features.

notmattlythgoe

24-11-2014 10:38

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Quote:

Another way to get data down to the drive coach is by having some sort of data syncing system using mobile Internet.

You might want to be careful with this, this technically could be against the rules.

Quote:

4.15 SITE RESTRICTIONS
Please read the following common site restrictions and adhere to them in order to promote an orderly, safe, pleasant and exciting competition. Please refer to Administrative Manual - Section 4.2 FIRST Safety for additional site restrictions at your event.

Do not bring food to the site. If you bring food, do not bring it onto the property.
Do not use noisy devices, such as floor stompers, whistles and/or air horns.
Do not arrange for Internet access or phone lines on the site or attempt to connect to the Internet.
Do not sell any products. This includes food, hats, shirts or any promotional products.
Do not distribute any food products, such as candy, water, soft drinks or fruit.
Do not sell raffle tickets.
Do not bring bottled gas tanks (e.g. helium). This is a safety concern.
Do not use walkie-talkies.
Do not invite or bring live bands to play in the audience. This dilutes the presentation on the playing field and is too loud and confusing for the audience.
Do not play loud music in the Pit because it interferes with important announcements. If a team receives more than a warning or two, the power to the team Pit will be shut off and/or the music confiscated.
Do not form "tunnels" during the Awards Ceremony. This can cause discomfort to those traveling through them and creates safety issues.

sanddrag

24-11-2014 11:03

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

So what are you going to start collecting cell phones at the door?

notmattlythgoe

24-11-2014 11:06

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Quote:

Originally Posted by sanddrag (Post 1409786)

So what are you going to start collecting cell phones at the door?

No, but I can see where people might have an issue with teams using online databases to access data wherever they need it. Our team has not moved to online scouting storage for this reason.

However, I also see where the rule is a bit general and might not be intended to limit this type of scouting system.

AdamStockton

24-11-2014 16:34

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Quote:

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe (Post 1409789)

No, but I can see where people might have an issue with teams using online databases to access data wherever they need it.

Why would having an online database for scouting cause an issue? The blue alliance, FRC Spyder, and the FIRST FMS event pages are essentially online databases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by notmattlythgoe (Post 1409789)

However, I also see where the rule is a bit general and might not be intended to limit this type of scouting system.

I'm not entirely sure, but I believe that this rule came about after teams actually leased phone lines for internet access at a competition many years ago. This rule has been in the manual since at least 2009 (when I started FRC), and probably didn't account for internet enabled smartphones.

jvriezen

24-11-2014 17:16

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

All our students are issued iPads (wifi, no cellular, not sure about bluetooth-- I would think so). Are there any existing scouting applications out there that would take advantage of this?

EricH

24-11-2014 17:38

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamStockton (Post 1409853)

The blue alliance, FRC Spyder, and the FIRST FMS event pages are essentially online databases.

FMS has a dedicated line that FIRST (at some level) pays for. TBA scrapes FMS data from the FIRST site. Spyder, same thing. The FMS line is actually pretty critical for the field to have.

That being said, I would say this: If you need to use the Internet, and you work with existing venue infrastructure (say, the venue wireless, or using a cell phone's data plan), I don't think anybody will give you too hard of a time about it. However, if you happen to be broadcasting a WiFi hotspot, you can expect a visit from the FTA, FTAA, a CSA, or the LRI. They'll be there to tell you to shut if off.

silverD

24-11-2014 17:52

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Quote:

Originally Posted by jvriezen (Post 1409863)

All our students are issued iPads (wifi, no cellular, not sure about bluetooth-- I would think so). Are there any existing scouting applications out there that would take advantage of this?

John,
525 Swartdogs have an apple scouting app: Aerial Scout

KnightKrawler built and maintains their own android scouting app: FRCKrawler

Nate

yash101

26-11-2014 19:23

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

It is quite difficult to use tablets, specifically Apple tablets in the field as you are not allowed to use WiFi and Bluetooth. Some Android tablets, however, have the ability to connect an ethernet cable. I believe that e-scouting is quite reserved to laptops, which have some unbeatable features:

Ethernet Ports
USB Ports (for PPTP over serial if necessary)
Full desktop OS makes it easier to develop and deploy servers

cjl2625

26-11-2014 19:46

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Quote:

Originally Posted by yash101 (Post 1410241)

It is quite difficult to use tablets, specifically Apple tablets in the field as you are not allowed to use WiFi and Bluetooth

Not allowed to use bluetooth? I thought there was nothing in the rules prohibiting bluetooth use.

yash101

26-11-2014 22:20

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjl2625 (Post 1410245)

Not allowed to use bluetooth? I thought there was nothing in the rules prohibiting bluetooth use.

It's not safe to use Bluetooth. It runs at 2.4GHz so the staff can prohibit Bluetooth if they think it is necessary!

Gregor

26-11-2014 22:26

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Quote:

Originally Posted by yash101 (Post 1410264)

It's not safe to use Bluetooth. It runs at 2.4GHz so the staff can prohibit Bluetooth if they think it is necessary!

Source?

Chris_Ely

26-11-2014 22:33

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Quote:

Originally Posted by yash101

field as you are not allowed to use WiFi and Bluetooth

Quote:

Originally Posted by yash101 (Post 1410264)

It's not safe to use Bluetooth. It runs at 2.4GHz so the staff can prohibit Bluetooth if they think it is necessary!

Emphasis mine.

False.
See

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2014 FRC Game Manual

5.5.1.4 T4
Teams may not set up their own 802.11a/b/g/n/ac (2.4GHz or 5GHz) wireless communication (e.g. access points or
ad-hoc networks) in the venue.

Bluetooth is 802.15.1

Obligatory disclaimer: 2015 rules may differ.

yash101

26-11-2014 22:37

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bluetooth.
Bluetooth runs at the same spectrum as WiFi, the communications used by the FMS. You can guess that there will be some sort of interference that will occur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...nce_at_2.4_GHz

cgmv123

26-11-2014 22:44

Re: Electronic scouting using 7 laptops and a little mysql

Relevant Q&A from last year:

Quote:

Q. I would like to make a scouting app for my team that would sync data across tablets, but there is a rule against 802.11a/b/g/n/ac networks. I was planning on using bluetooth, which is 802.15, but would that be considered a violation of the rule?

A. There are no rules explicitly prohibiting this. If the Bluetooth network traffic is found to be interfering with game play, the team will be asked to disable the system. However, please remember that rules for 2014 do not apply to future seasons.

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