FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Well FIRST Choice window is open

http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/everything/

Initial thoughts; Not very many things to choose from like in years past. Hard to justify a 4 slot c-Rio, PD and DS when we need to use the RoboRio this year. Speed controls are there but no Talons. No compressor for teams needing pneumatic supplies.

Anyone else feel this years FIRST Choice to be lacking?

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I totally agree. Last year we had to prioritize what we wanted because there was so much good stuff. Hoping for a new battery I guess. And switches. Lots of switches.

IIRC it is all donated and depends on the generosity of the suppliers. We're just glad to get anything free.

-matto-

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I'm alright with the offerings, plenty of useful stuff at a good value (free + shipping). Just because the old control system isn't competition legal doesn't mean a team can't find a good use for the components.

Thank you to the sponsors who donated all of these products.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

That is a lot of linear motion-related supplies. I suspect that a lifting game may be imminent.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Don't they always have that many linear motion components?

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Im interested in the REVrobotics Protoboard and the Cypress PSOC3. I don't recall those kind of things on FirstChoice last year. It will be interesting to see what teams might use them for. I have pretty much no experience with digital electronics... Any ideas?

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Seconded. Might be just me, but I see a lot more than last year.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Yeah it seems pretty to be a pretty typical amount.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Keep in mind there will be more game-specific offerings available come January. This is not a complete list of FIRSTChoice.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

FIRST Choice Advice for Rookie Teams

FIRST Senior Mentor Dana Henry (hey, that's me!) put together a helpful list for rookie teams that might not be sure what to use their FIRST Choice points on. The list assumes that rookie teams are starting from scratch and therefore do not have some of the basic parts. Additionally, the list does not include the Classmate under the assumption that teams have access to a laptop that can function as a driver station and connect to the robot during competitions.

Part number Points Qty Total points
Batteries fc15-008 50 1 50
Battery charger fc15-005 50 1 50
Ethernet port saver fc15-030 5 2 10
Velcro kit fc15-036 10 1 10
Encoder Kit fc15-039 20 2 40
Spikes fc15-112 20 2 40
Black Jaguars fc15-0340 50 4 200
Victor 888 fc15-019 50 4 200
Total: 600

The full list of parts can be found at http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/everything/.

Sorry for the formatting.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

For a rookie team that already has a good amount of parts, is there any value in only using a portion of the 600 points and waiting to spend the rest after kickoff? Or are the 600 points only for this period?

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

It looks like FIRST won't be any more items to FIRST Choice after kickoff this year. I found this comment (which appears to be posted by an FRC staff member) in the comments section of the blog post about FIRST choice. (http://www.usfirst.org/comment/1869#comment-1869)

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

They changed their mind :)

From today's blog:

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I would change the fc15-0340 to the fc15-118. Since I recall the vex ones are supposed to be better than the ti version.
(fc15-118 was just added)

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I always like the subtle clues revealed by FIRST Choice, but I'm not seeing much this year. The linear motion components seem pretty standard, but who knows. :rolleyes:

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Are there always stack bins in Choice? I believe that boxes were used as the 2003 game piece...

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

the boxes in 2003 were rubbermaid tubs. If you're suggesting these can be a game piece... we're all doomed.


I noticed that the two belt sizes used in last years kitbot are available in limited quantities. Maybe that indicates that this years kitbot will not be using the same center to center distances? larger wheels maybe? an obstacle maybe? frame perimeter change? hm?

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Not horribly useful unless you're doing heavy simulations for your robot, but anyone else think the Quadro K4000 for 100 points is a steal? I mean come on, that's a $700 beast of a graphics card that costs the same as 10 mini dry erase boards. http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/fc15-114

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Maybe this is baseless speculation, but the stack bins are the only item I noticed that don't have a "yes" or "no" in the "In kickoff kit" box, therefore leaving the box blank. A hint perhaps?

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Much more likely, a simple oversight.

These bins are on a completely different scale than the 2003 bins

The item page says that these will be included in the kitbot box on kickoff.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Could someone please explain the difference between the two Jags?

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I wish they told us the resolution on the CUI encoder there...AMT103-V isn't exactly useful. I could be missing it, but I don't see it anywhere.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

It says it's programmable. Here's the Digikey page for it, http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...1308-ND/827016 and datasheet http://www.cui.com/product/resource/amt10-v.pdf

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Thanks, I thought I was going crazy. I've never heard of a programmable resolution encoder before. Now I'm going to have to research these.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Note that ALL First Choice items are donated, but in quantities smaller than necessary to give some to each team. Although FIRST would just love to have more offerings (ask Kate Pilotte yourself!) in the donation world, you get what you get and love it. There are no game hints in there.

THANK YOU to all the companies who donated items. This is all very much appreciated.:D

Nominally they are the same, but the supplier is different. One could argue the ones supplied by Texas Instruments are older and so somehow inferior, since the later ones have (IIRC) some minor improvements, but in my opinion they are the same.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

The resolution is set by internal dip switches.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

These ones are the older ones (2012 season and previous) and earlier made by TI. These ones are the newer ones (2013 season - 2014 season) made by IFI. As far as I'm aware, they're identical electrically, but the ones made by IFI are conformal coated, while the ones made by TI are not.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I get that, but I'm more curious in how they physically/electronically work.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

So it's probably reading position as an analog value (the capacitance), and then converting to digital. The dip switches just set the resolution at which you convert (just a scalar).

This is pretty common with magenetic encoders too (selectable resolution).

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

That makes sense. Thanks

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I find it strange that there aren't compressors in FIRST Choice. Kickoff KOP hasn't had them for any teams the last few years, so rookie teams needed to get them from FIRST Choice or buy them.

If they aren't in the KOP, it looks like another cost for new teams.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I'm hoping this just means a new compressor is now in the kit, or that the rules have been opened up further on what is allowed for compressors.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Interesting motor in FIRST Choice

http://firstchoicebyandymark.com/fc15-037

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

My take on it: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...74&postcount=3

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I've made a spreadsheet comparing credits to $ amount.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

It's incomplete because some prices aren't published. There are a lot of obsolete parts (which is why I'm guessing a lot of them get donated).

I was hesitant to share this because I don't want teams to claim stuff on First Choice just because it's more bang for the buck(/credit). Get what you're actually going to need, not chase the better deal.

Please feel free to edit and change prices if you find a better price somewhere else for the same (or equivalent) part.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

This thread has mentioned the 600 point limit, and provides a recommendation for Rookies (which I would have really appreciated seeing last year as a rookie team). I wanted to point out the first choice web site recommends not 600 points but 2000 points worth of items be selected:

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I'm impressed! Yesterday I worked up the following Python code which harvests the FC offerings from the website and outputs them as a comma-separated-values list. But it's really nice to see these items compared to their commercial counterparts. The one column in my list that is not on your spreadsheet is "Max Qty" for those items that are quantity-limited.

I imported a run from this morning into Google Sheets at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

a crimping tool that cost more than $200can anybody tell me why that's a good deal

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

It's a ratcheting crimper. It's a LOT more "idiot-proof" than a normal crimper/stripper combination. Means that you lose crimps a lot less often. And it's only 100 credits...


BUT, pay attention: It's meant for #8 to #1, and most FIRST teams won't use anything thicker than #6 (battery cables) or maybe #4 (same use).

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

<Rookie alert>

We are a rookie team starting "from scratch." I.e., assume we have nothing.

Reviewing FIRST Senior Mentor Dana Henry's FIRST Choice list for rookie teams, and crossing it against Michael Hill's spreadsheet comparing part costs to credits, I get the following $ / credit values:

Batteries fc15-008 50 1 50 $0.89
Battery charger fc15-005 50 1 50 $0.66
Ethernet port saver fc15-030 5 2 10 $1.15
Velcro kit fc15-036 10 1 10 $2.49
Encoder Kit fc15-039 20 2 40 $1.18
Spikes fc15-112 20 2 40 $1.75
Black Jaguars fc15-0340 50 4 200 $1.60
Victor 888 fc15-019 50 4 200 $1.40

It has been suggested that buying batteries locally may be cheaper than paying for shipping via FC.

The hypothesis I'd appreciate feedback on is: As rookies, we're probably going to be buying a lot of stuff, and so we should be careful to maximize the value of our FC credits. E.g., why not buy a battery charger, say - and conceivably one preferable to the one on offer here - rather than paying money for a higher cost / credit item available here?

The problem is: As a rookie, I don't know enough to know which higher cost / credit items here we're going to need.

Any further suggestions on this score?...

Many thanks!

I would look to add some of the pneumatic components to your list as a rookie team. They used to include more of them in the kop but that has been lacking the past few years and we have had to either purchase those parts or use our credits. Also while those speed controllers are not the most current ones that teams are purchasing they certainly do the job just fine and can save you some money in the long run.
I agree about the batteries and shipping costs. Are team is fairly close to andymark and can either pay lesser shipping or occasionally have another team mentor that goes through the area that will stop and pick items up.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I throw this together pretty quickly but this is what I would want if I were starting a rookie team this year and I was guaranteed to get everything I wanted from first choice. This isn't in order of priority or anything like that and any priority list should have way more items then are included on this.

Notes: I don't like jaguars and I'd rather buy batteries and chargers from other sources. This also assumes that you would like to build a practice robot and have some knowledge of the old control system.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...dBQ/edit#gid=0

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Thanks for your replies. This begs the question - that I had yet to consider: Will we, in our rookie year, have a practice robot?

This might seem OT relative to FC, but if we do plan to have a practice robot, looking at the very high $ / credit for the cRIO and PDB, the time is obviously now to make this call.

The change in the controller makes me wary of grabbing the cRIO since FRC is moving in another direction (right?), but two considerations push me toward this:

1. We have scheduled time for robotics every day through the end of February, so a practice robot would give us something to do once ours ships; and
2. Outreach seems to be one of the most promising arenas for us during our rookie year, and a practice robot would help with this since it would give us something to show....

Thoughts?

Thanks again!

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

according to the website, under product discription it states:
"Full Cycle Ratchet Crimping Tool, 16 AWG-4 AWG, 8 AWG-1 AWG Flex Copper, Die Wheel"

http://ecat.burndy.com/Comergent/bur...Other Features

It seems like it has two wheels? can anyone clarify this?

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

This is a decision you have to make as a team. If I were starting a team I would do whatever was needed to make some type of practice robot. My first year with Spectrum we build a practice robot but we did it by removing nearly all of our electronics from the competition robot on bag day and reinstalling them at our first event. It would have been far easier if we had a second controller and everything even if it were an older generation since most of the code is transferable from the cRIO to the RoboRIO (depending on your programming language and features you choose to use).

We also were meeting every day throughout the entire competition season, Jan-Apr. So a practice robot was very useful.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

That is a very high quality (think industry quality...mine has put on several thousand connectors from 1ga to 6ga in telecom sites over the years) ratcheting crimping tool that is the correct one for use on the 6ga Panduit power lugs that have come in the KoP in recent years. This tool makes very quick work with these lugs onto the 6ga power wire with a connection that will not come apart. Many teams do not use the provided lugs because they could never crimp them correctly, causing failures, and blaming the lug when it was the tool used. I believe that having the correct crimper available is great and an even bigger bonus that it is a real one and not a cheap one.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Does anyone have experience with the CUI encoders in FIRST Choice that they are willing to share?

I notice that they are much cheaper than the Grayhills that are usually recommended and wondered about the CUI's quality/durability/precision/ease of assemby/maintainabiltiy/etc. Our team was planning on buying a couple of Grayhills this week before build season, but if these can do the trick then I would much rather spend credits than money ;)

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

I just found an archived copy of the 2014 FIRST Choice and was a little disappointed to find that nearly everything was either the same "price" or "cheaper" last year. I've added 2014 credit prices to the spreadsheet I made available earlier. Some things are a rather drastic increase. For example, the Classmate went from 100 credits to 200, lead screw from 5 to 20, slewing ring from 5 to 100. The only thing, I believe, that is "cheaper" is the 4-slot cRio, dropping from 100 to 40.

Re: FIRST Choice 2015 Window Open
 

Yes, but the objective wasn't to make things fewer points - it was to normalize them so that their rough value was equatable to their point value. The last couple years, you could have loaded up on fluke multimeters and sold them for a big profit - much like the video card this year.

The values seem fairly accurate except for a couple exceptions this year, and there's a lot of worthwhile stuff in there. We can always use more pneumatic tube, hoses, batteries, spikes, etc.