Re: pool noodles
 

Wrong question.

The product in question is marketed as "can be used for pool noodles". NOT marketed as "pool noodles".

"Rugged" and "smooth" are characteristics of the cloth--thus, any cloth with those characteristics, as judged first by the team, then by the inspectors, falls into the category. "Pool noodles" is a product type--if I go to the store and buy pool noodles, I have a reasonable expectation that they won't give me a pipe blanket (foam used to protect pipes/people contacting hot water pipes). They might be the same material, but if I got a pipe blanket instead of a pool noodle, I'd have some pretty good grounds of asking store management to retrain whoever gave me that.


It might be the same discussion as we had in '07 over "grip tape" vs "grip tread", or in '11 over "light switch" vs "switch" on the Minibots, but when it comes to FRC, the distinction can be the difference between a lot of work to pass inspection on Thursday and a lot of practice on Thursday.

Re: pool noodles
 

From the page I referenced:

"appropriate for applications from insulating and weather stripping to "noodle" swimming toys at the pool or beach."

That's what they are. They are solid core, that's it. I can't find solid core consistently at Walmart. Actually, I've /never/ found solid core noodles there. If you have a source other than the foam company who sells the solid core product and you think it isn't fair for me to buy them in white, please let me know and I'll put in a purchase order from them instead.

Re: pool noodles
 

And I also don't understand how the way the product is marketed is relevant. Do the words "appropriate for use as noodles for the pool or beach" (emphasis on "appropriate for") magically change what the product actually is? It is The. Same. Thing. It has a solid core, as do the most desirable noodles we can purchase that are marketed /as/ noodles.

Re: pool noodles
 

It's kind of funny that I just wrote "the most desirable noodles".

Re: pool noodles
 

You were around for BOTH of the years I referenced. Do you NOT remember the to-do about "light switch" vs. "lamp switch" for the minibots in 2011? You could literally buy the same part from two different vendors, and one would be legal and one would not because one sold it as a lamp switch and the other as a light switch. The same went for "grip tape" and "stair tread" when applied to robot ramps in '07--same exact product, but the grip tape was ILLEGAL because it was "tape" and at that time, all tape was illegal except for electrical tape and labeling tape. I'm not making this up. (For the Minibots, even weld rod--aluminum stock--was briefly ruled illegal!)

The amount of sense the rule (or actually, the ruling) in the above cases makes (which in the referenced cases was roughly zero) is irrelevant. It's still the rule. And while most inspectors would agree that it makes no sense, and wouldn't understand the reasoning behind the rule, the GDC apparently didn't realize that--notice that those rules aren't really making much of a return.


Incidentally, the fact that the company is selling the product in question as being appropriate for weather stripping and insulating... and the same product as being appropriate for pool noodles... That's got me questioning their marketing, and their material. There are differences between weather stripping, insulating, and pool noodle materials.

Re: pool noodles
 

I was around for both those years but was blissfully unaware of all that, or I've blocked it from memory. Forgive me for being out of that loop; so you're saying that the /same/ product was either legal or illegal depending on what the vendor called it? Wow. If that's the case, then you're right and I won't buy from the foam company. But man, that is weird. Like, weird weird.

Sorry if I was being a jerk about it.

Re: pool noodles
 

Of course the standard rules may be different this season but yes in the past for both FRC and FTC they have used the "marketed as" to define whether a particular time was legal or not.

Re: pool noodles
 

Now that we are approaching the start of the season, I would like to remind everyone to read the rules, all the rules, please. We change rules from season to season including those rules that everyone think do not change from year to year. I tell everyone to expect the unexpected and read everything. If you think you are at the end of a rule, turn the page and check that it does not continue on the next page. If I had a nickel for every time a team told me that they didn't read that rule "because it never changes", I would be a rich man.
As to the pool noodle for bumpers. There was some exhaustive testing done in an attempt to come up with a easy to implement method of protecting robots. Up to that point, we were seeing a team be put out of competition in an unfortunate collision that damaged some part of their robot. Woodie, especially hated to see that, and so did/do I. The bumper design is a way to protect robots with a predictable, energy absorbing system, that should be easy to build from cheap parts. Inspectors check the construction of your bumpers to insure you and everyone you play against will be able to play match after match. When you use other materials or try to fill the void with 'hard parts', that puts you and other robots at risk.
BTW, the construction is also to help you make you robot look good on TV. That is why we don't want you to use tywraps, duct tape, etc. to hold them on. Our viewing audience may not understand the game or your strategy, but they certainly can tell an ugly bumper system when they see one.

Re: pool noodles
 

Well this escalated quickly...
I know Target will sell you a box of 28 pool noodles and I imagine other stores like it will do the same, although I haven't checked the prices.
What I find interesting in all this is that no official bumper material is sold. Like if GenericCorpRobotics just suddenly made the filler for bumpers and you just bought sections of it that might save a lot of hassle.
On the flip side creative thinking with bumpers has lead to some recent proposals like more then one material providing a gripping surface or a slick surface. Personally I have faith in the students to design robots so why not at some point try having bumper rules be more like robot design rules.
I imagine implementing rules that made bumper design much more flexible would push some teams to try really cool things.

Re: pool noodles
 

You also use pool noodles in the WATER…. Especially when participating in GAMES in the WATER….

Re: pool noodles
 

I'm always complaining about the challenges we have being from Hawaii doing FRC.
However, Pool Noodles is probably 1 of the 3 advantages we have in doing FRC here. Those things are everywhere 365 days a year!;)