Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Possible hints for hockey game:



-Long package is obviously hockey sticks :P
(Probably more realistically hockey pucks after discussion in the comments)

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...5-kit-of-parts



-In the source code for the site, the word "Choice" in the title "FIRST Choice" is split into "Ch", "o", and "ice". The word "ice" being alone is the first real hint towards it being a hockey game.

view-source:http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...5-kit-of-parts



-However, The "Ch" and "o" must be important because they are also separated. Since they posted all of this 24 days before the kickoff, and openly acknowledged it was 24 days until kickoff, let us assume 24 is important. If you google "24CH", you will find it is the title of a hockey documentary.

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...blog-Kit-Hints

http://canadiens.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=86513



-The final and most convincing hint: the remaining "o" looks like a hockey puck.

Hockey game confirmed.

New:

-FIRSTweets posted a picture related to lunacy, possibly a hint of a low-friction surface (for hockey).
https://twitter.com/firstweets/status/543108834932563968


Edits:

Added info about tweet and added info that long box is more realistically pucks.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

But hockey is played on frozen H20

Water game confirmed

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

If only the long box had a bend in it....

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Ah, it's that wild mass guessing time of year again.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Hockey pucks are 3 inches in diameter.. could the long package be hockey pucks?

This is interesting. Why else would they break it up in the source code like that?

They're probably just messing with us, but who knows.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

There would have to be some filler. the box is 0.1 pounds per inch, and hockey pucks are 0.375 pounds per inch. So in order to be hockey pucks it would need to have only 16 hockey pucks. Seems like a lot more effective ways to package that than a 60 inch tube.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

But would we really use real hockey pucks. I would want to be behind the only Solid wall (driver station ) while playing that game. I would be concerned if a robot went rogue during a match. It could be Dean kamen 2010 except worse.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

But they could also be using Mites pucks, which are 3oz instead of 6oz.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

The package weighs about 27% of what one filled with regulation hockey pucks would. If they were using 3 oz pucks they would weigh 50% of a regulation package. Also, If it were pucks, they would be packaged in a square box, not a long tube, not only for cost restraints, but to give away minimal information on game.

Still, at this point I can see a hockey game as the most likely rumor thus far.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

How about AIR HOCKEY???

Just a thought :)

They've had soccer- and basketball-themed games, which were loosely based on common sports. Then frisbee- and exercise- (last year's ball) themed, which are kind of not common sports. Now air hockey... that's a fun sport. Maybe FRC is cycling through common to popular to fun to totally random (Lunacy maybe. I'm not familiar with that game). Just my guess. They have to keep it fresh. Hockey would be nice though. It's a nice challenge for us to make non-ball shooters. (flashback to 2013) Not sure about ice though... but I mean if it's based off hockey, it would technically be a water game so.... :eek:

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Note that "CH" is in the logo for the Montreal Canadiens...:yikes:

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Hmm... a hockey game.

Would that be good news for Canadian teams, considering that Canada has pretty much owned Olympic Gold Medals for the past decade?

Or bad considering that we haven't seen the Stanley Cup in twice as long?

Jason

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

The Kings won the Stanley Cup last, so us LA teams have this hockey game in the bag! :p

I was messing around that the long box was a hockey stick, but it could legitimately be hockey pucks. Never even thought of that :P

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Considering that FRC is geared towards high school students, the U18 World Championships are probably a better barometer for FRC hockey purposes. I wonder how the medal count looks there? ;)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IIHF_Wo...8_Championship

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

@FIRSTweets just tweeted a #TBT picture to Lunacy 2009 :0

Low friction floors would be needed for the hockey game right??

It's either a hockey game or they are WAY too good a trolling us.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Yes and yes!

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I believe street hockey is played with tennis balls, yes? Sliding friction not such an issue, then. And, no nasty regolith. How does that jive with the packaging theories?

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Why would they force use to use hockey sticks? Wouldn't it be more (dare I say it?) in the spirit of FIRST to let the students solve the problem and not give them the solution...

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I don't know us Chicagoans have those Blackhawks. :D

Yes, I know. As I stated earlier, I was joking about it being hockey sticks. Assuming my theory is correct, it would make much more sense if it were hockey pucks.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

If you wanna force low-friction environments, I would rather see FIRST force everyone to use omni-wheels on carpet rather than regolith again. And from what I've heard, regolith was just a pain, so I doubt they would pull that out again.

My guess is field hockey with tennis balls, on carpet. I just wish for a mostly open carpet field...I like fast robots.

I just added that to the main post. That's actually a really good point.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

No no no... Though it could be.

Blog post about ANYthing being reused.

24 days to kickoff for the 24th FRC season (am I right there).

I expect a recycle to some extent, but regolith would be cruel.

Though there was that "full swing" reference on the KOP blog post 'hint'

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Just realizing that having this proof, and the fact they tweeted out about Lunacy as well the day after, just put so many hints towards a water game.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Well this was less than 100 ft away from our build space (same building we practice in which is across the street from our school) so we have the advantage:

https://twitter.com/FlaPanthers/stat...10182560927744

(Detroit Red Wings practice there sometimes too)

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Well if that is true, you lucky duck!

And if it is a hockey game, so many people are going to flip out about it, from all I hear, Lunacy was not the best game FIRST had in FRC.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I've long wanted a hockey game. They have pucks made for carpet that have internal fans and act as hover-craft, though I'm not sure if they'd be durable enough for our use.

I think you have to make two assumptions about that package.

1. The length is necessary, which means it's not flexible.
2. It's not a common item like a hockey puck, stick, or PVC. If it were, they'd have us buy it ourselves. Even things like the tetras can be made out of PVC. This is something a little more exotic.

https://www.google.com/shopping/prod...ed=0CFMQpiswAQ

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Line 269 for the note-so-gifted at parsing HTML source.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I do not think there will be regolith. None of the "game hints" of this sort have ever panned out, and I think FIRST knows that a return of regolith would make a whole lot of people very, very upset.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I think FIRST has a bunker somewhere in NH that has been used for constant regolith game simulations since Lunacy. One day, when the time is right, and the game is perfected, it will be unleashed upon an unsuspecting (but sort of suspecting) population.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

To be fair, regolith was only one of a great multitude of reasons why Lunacy was a terrible, terrible game.

But it was still a big one.

I don't think it's confirmed but a slight possibly. The name FIRST Choice has been that for a long time so I don't think that's a hint but my team was talking about how the 3x3x60 object could be a net rolled up for a hockey goal.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

If memory serves, Lunacy was also played using a brand new kind of control system for the robots (or at the very least the driver stations). Funny that we should also have a new control system this year... :rolleyes:

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

If they were to use Regolith or a similar surface that is not widely available, I would hope that they would include a sample in the kit. Didn't they do this for Lunacy?
There is nothing big enough for a robot to sit on in the described packages, unless it is rolled up in the 3x3x60" package.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

You and I are on the same page with that statement!

The disk you linked to is a "Soccer" disk. That said, I think it could VERY EASILY be used in a FIRST game. Kinda get's the juices flowing just thinking about the possibilities!

Both appear to be very accurate observations for the 3"X3"X60" package.

It could also be something as simple as a part donated by a sponsor.
A set of these rails with some packing material could very easily be in there.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ght=slide+rail

But, according to this post, it is not that part!

I wouldn't mind regolith if we were still allowed treaded wheels. It would allow a puck to slide while keeping control of the robot

I would have to agree with that. I think a regolith game without robots sliding everywhere would be interesting

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Yes, Lunacy was the introduction of the cRIO and related hardware to replace the IFI control system. As a side note, it was the only year that the blue box driver stations were used, before switching to laptops.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Remember having to fix those stupid blue boxes to add better grounding... Glad those things only lasted one year. The laptops are way better.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

"One set of items, collectively 3 in. x 3 in. x 60 in., 6 lbs."
3, 3, 60/20 = 3 6 lbs/2 = 3 lbs

Half Life 3 Confirmed.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

You also have to take safety into account.

This will NOT be a hockey game with normal pucks. Flying frisbees were scary enough and resulted in a few injuries. It's unlikely they are going to give us something like a hockey puck because shielding the entire arena would be really, really tough considering how hard robots could fire them. Also, remember that field cleanup has to be quick for fast game turn around. That limits the number of game pieces and type you can have. Super bouncy balls are out - even if it would be a REALLY interesting game to watch.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Who said that shooting would be allowed? All you gotta do to counter those is completely disallow shooting, or put a significant muzzle velocity limit, just enough to power-dump a cargo of gamepiece X into a goal that happens to be conducive to power-dumping. Or just design the goal such that it cannot be shot into without being in a particular zone, declare said zone to be a safe zone, and design the goal also to be rather impact-resistant.

Then add a nice, stiff penalty to said rule, say about 2x the maximum score a robot can legally carry, and you're all set.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

A possibility could be the rolled-up hockey nets for the 3x3x60 box, but I feel like they are much larger than that (and I am barely five feet tall).

My bet is that it's a field obstacle or field element of some sort that is necessary to be regulated amongst all teams. I'm pretty sure FIRST is backing down from having no field obstacles after seeing the damage caused in last years game.

Perhaps... It's something you throw Moon Rocks in? ::rtm::

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

As much as I want a hockey game, I think it's really too early to be jumping to any conclusions. Best to wait until the game hint is released

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Could the 3in x 3in x 60in package be some rolled up flooring perhaps?

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Wow, what a sensible resp...

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I think a hockey game would be interesting. Honestly, however, I can't see FIRST using hockey pucks. Even if you could set a maximum output speed, it would have to be so low that it would make the game dramatically less interesting. I am more inclined to believe that it is a roll-up of some sort of material.
Also, I would love to see the looks on the faces of the people in the GDC when they read these posts discussing what the game could be. They're probably like, "They are so far off it's not even funny..." But who knows? I can't read minds of people I know, much less those I don't. Heck, I don't even know what people are thinking even if they tell me.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I still doubt it being rolled-up material. KOP page says that the 3"x3"x60" item is a set. Unless they cut up said rolled-up material.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

What if it's rolled up material with game pieces (smaller hockey pucks or some alternative game piece)? That could possibly fit in that volume and still be a "set" of items.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Could be golf, as even the longest package seems pretty short for a hockey stick.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

What if it's multiple field surfaces?

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

That's pretty plausible, although its been pointed out before that its much more efficient to just fold surfaces and not stack things in a tube. But if its delicate field material that needs to be rolled, I could see how that could work.

Same goes for a set of multiple field surfaces that must be rolled for some reason. Did teams get a Regolith sample during Lunacy?

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

FIRST did use an ice like field in Lunacy. So if it is a hockey game, we may see the same field as in 2009. Also, the long packages could contain an arrow like game piece.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

In 2006 I remember thinking "This is GREAT! I never thought FIRST would let us SHOOT things." and they cautiously introduced flying nerf balls with a maximum velocity limit.

Then we got to shoot ten pound earth balls. Then more nerf balls, but without a velocity limit. Then... hard flying discs!!! Then big, heavy, inflatable balls that humans actually had to catch!

FIRST would have no problem with high speed hockey pucks... all they'd have to do is put a requirement that teams not shoot the pucks outside the playing field. First infraction is a warning, second is DQ.

But there is also no reason that NHL hockey pucks are required to play hockey. As has already been pointed out, street hockey balls, tennis balls, foam pucks, old balls of tape, crumpled up paper and hackey sacks have all been used as hockey pucks.

In fact, I believe red and blue hockey pucks played a role in the FIRST VEX Challenge in 2007?

Jason

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

The nerf balls and the 2014 balls were not super dangerous. Even at full speed one of those balls shot wouldn't hurt a person too bad. The Frisbees were alot more dangerous, which required the nets. If an frisbee had gone into the crowd at an event, it would have been a MAJOR safety issue. I fell like the same thing would happen with any type of small balls, or especially pucks. The first time an object like that hits someone in the stands, even if accidentally, that would most likely lead to some major legal issues I know FIRST doesn't want to get involved in. So I don't think FIRST will do a small game object because of this, unless the nets can GUARANTEE nothing will go flying into the crowd.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Or just fully enclose the arena like an actual hockey rink.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

It doesn't make sense for FIRST to give us a hockey stick or golf club. Teams are supposed to engineer the way they manipulate the game piece. Yes, they've given us mandatory wheels before, but to say you HAVE to use this object to move the game piece around is a bit too much.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I would tend to disagree that the 2014 exercise balls would not hurt anyone. I know that our robot shot those exercise balls with enough force that it took ~125 lbs of force at the end of a ~30 in level arm to disarm the catapult. They also had to put up the hockey glass in the arena at the Utah Regional because some teams were shooting the balls through the goals and out into the stands where spectators were sitting.

As to the hockey topic, would it be reasonable to expect a hockey stick to fit inside a 3x3x60in. package? Wouldn't the angled blade at the end of the stick (the part you hit the puck with) make it impossible to fit into a package with that small of dimensions? A typical hockey stick (according to Wikipedia) has a blade that is ~12.5 inches long, and the stick itself is typically 64 inches long without including the blade.

I think it's much more reasonable to assume that, if there were to be a hockey game, the package contains a net and goal frame than a hockey stick. It would make sense since a goal is 4 feet tall (the vertical posts would fit easily within the package) and 6 feet wide (the crossbar would have to be assembled in two pieces to fit within the package) and the netting could fill up the extra space and also double as packaging material to prevent damage. I do not, however, know how much a full goal would weigh though to see if it would fit within the 6 pounds allotted.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

...but you can buy a hockey goal from a store, so there's no need to include it with the KOP. And there's really no need to have a hockey goal anyways, we've always had to make our own goals for past games.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

All of these poles would also need to fit within the 3x3 area, which I doubt would be possible. Have we ever gotten a piece of the field in the KOP before? I'd be more inclined to think it is part of a game piece than a goal.

Agreed.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Im just going to add fuel to the fire here:
http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...escription.pdf


hockey(and water), half life 3, and the Illuminati are confirmed

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Kind of like how you could buy frisbees in a store? Or exersize balls?

I honestly don't have any idea what the game is. I really don't buy the hockey idea, it is too obvious for it to be the hint. But they could have a custom size goal that only FIRST has, or some game specific netting. To go against that, a team could easily build a hockey net frame out of PVC.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Has FIRST ever not given the game piece though? The goal would be a field element not a game piece.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

The game piece is not the goal. We had to make our own goals for the frisbees and the exercise balls. The only goal stuff I can remember getting, was for visual processing, such as retroreflective tape, and colored cloth.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

If it is a hockey game I dont see them using pucks but hockey balls maybe, their diameter is just shy of 3 inches and if they give us say 20 of them it is right around that 6lb mark

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Did we get soccer ball[s] in the kit for Breakaway? That's the only one that comes right to mind.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Good question, I can't remember if we did or not. I seem to remember having to go buy some.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

We bought them.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I dunno how many times this will need to be brought up, but Frank acknowledged that the 60" box will definitely make it hard to transport. If the box contained anything like balls or tiny pieces, they would have put it in a more square box. It's obviously something rigid that requires a 5 foot long box.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Did anyone bother to look at the 2014 source code for the kit of parts.

This is the line that this post was based on
<h3 align="left"><strong><em>FIRST</em>&nbsp;Ch</strong><strong>o</strong><strong>ice</strong></h3>

This is the line from the 2014 source code
<h3 align="left"><strong><em>FIRST</em>&nbsp;Ch</strong><strong>o</strong><strong>ice</strong></h3>

they are exactly the same. Sorry to ruin this thread, but I think you guys are barking up the wrong tree with a made up hint

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I've wondered if this were a single large 'baton' that needs to be passed from robot to robot, then into a 'goal'. Possibly a big piece of 3" dia PVC pipe.

Cooperation games are popular and passing a baton like in a running relay is a really obvious possibility to cooperate.

That would be an interesting challenge. How would we do that....?

That's my guess for 2cents.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Aw :(

Well what if there was Ice somewhere in the competition and we didn't realize it, It may have been relevant somehow, we just need to find it.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Dare I say Regolith ice?

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

No

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Just so we're on the same page: every time someone here says "regolith" referring to the actual surface Lunacy was played on, I get a little crazy. Regolith is the loose surface of dirt or dust over bedrock; in this case, the dust on the surface of the moon. What we played on was the stuff that is used to line cheap showers, and it was called "regolith" so that we would associate it with low gravity on the surface of the moon, in keeping with the theme. That stuff will never be used again in FRC, as it disintegrated and lost the desired low CoF characteristic, and made a mess.

Please don't dog on me, veterans. I know that you know already, but some people (especially students) don't know and might need to get caught up on the terminology.:D

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Just in case anyone's wondering, I highly doubt the big (3*3*60) box is pucks. Rubber is far too heavy and foam is too light (when calculated using - http://www.ebay.com/itm/POOF-Slinky-...-/331413584959 as the approximate foam weight, the box would only weigh around two pounds).

Perhaps it is a mix of rubber, foam and street hockey pucks and tennis balls.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

THANK YOU FOR THIS!! The actual material is called FRP (Fiber-Reinforced Plastic) Board. http://www.homedepot.com/p/Unbranded...9600/100389836 This is a huge pet-peeve of mine as well!
FIRST made the mistake of saying "a slick polymer material called regolith" in the game animation, and it has stuck ever since.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I think a lot of us have overlooked this... There are a lot more efficient ways to pack a bunch of hockey pucks or balls. I have to conclude that with both this, as well as the source code debunking, the odds of the game actually being something like hockey are pretty low.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

It is at this point that I must get out my soapbox, stand on it and SHOUT "Nattering Nabobs of Negativity!"

It must be a Hockey game!!

Stepping off the soapbox now.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I give a "capture the flag" type variant (with plenty of leeway for adaptation to robots) pretty good odds this year; maybe 13/4. My second choice would be football, at maybe 15/1. Hockey is way down the list, less likely than a redux of AA or some other game from the past. "The Box" is either bumper fabric, Versa Frame samples, or the game piece. No hockey sticks, and certainly not pucks or some other nonsense. Sorry people.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

So I got to thinking a few days ago about the box size, and i immediately thought back to the flags on the robots back in 2008. I also thought of the "Trident" things in soccer to inbound the balls. And lastly of the mini bots climbing the poles in 2011. My idea is that either we are going to have the flags again or something similar, and FIRST just wants to drive us crazy with the long box. Or we have an inbound tool, possibly Human Player defense in front of some type of goal??? Or we have Some type of device (pole) we must run a mini bot up, or it could be a game of stacking objects, and we must use said object (The object in the box) to do it. My other idea is you must use a pole or something to touch beacons or something similar in the air above the playing field.

I also looked up the FTC game this year. In it there are long tubes the robots must fill with balls. Could this years game have something similar, and they are including a tube with the kop?
http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/game

On the Hockey thing, why include a hockey stick in the kop when we can go to most sports stores and buy one?

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I never actually looked for a hockey stick in a sporting goods store in southern Louisiana, but I don't ever recall having seen one in my browses looking for something I can adapt to a totally different purpose, either.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Aargh!

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I'm having doubts about it being a hockey game simply because that package could be anything - it doesn't have to be hockey specific.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

Hahaha this tho...


Credit: 3175student17
PhotoCredit: Frcnation.com

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I see you have been reading my posts again!

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

This post is too funny, This off season we have built a hockey playing robot. It would drop the puck and than we attached a hockey stick to it. We did a demonstration at a local hockey game. We dropped the puck for opening ceremonies and than at intermission we drove it on the ice and shot a puck. I hope it is a hockey game as we are ahead of the design curve.

Re: Hockey Game Confirmed?
 

I came up with a hockey game concept years ago back when Dave Lavery was encouraging us to come up with game designs.
I miss those days.