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FRC Blog - District Slot Allocations at 2015 FIRST Championship
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http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...T-Championship
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Re: FRC Blog - District Slot Allocations at 2015 FIRST Championship
"We're gonna need a bigger boat" - Michigan State Championship Planning Committee. :ahh:
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540 is divisible by 6, but not 8.
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Indiana is getting a slightly smaller number of slots than last year.
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Edit: Also, only 9 teams made champs from Indiana on merit last year. You guys should be even better represented this year. (45 pre-qualified). Edit 2: looks like 868 got a wildcard slot at QC |
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447 868 5010 4982 1501 45 135 3147 3301 5188 |
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If you look at it in a different light, if you combine the 2 regionals and their 12 qualification slots, but then eliminate the duplicate RCA, EI, and RAS (since the district will only have 1 of each), you get 9 unique spots. I had hoped for more slots, but the proportional representation seems fair. |
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This is more of an incentive to switch to districts in large areas.
For example, in MN we send a maximum of 24 teams to champs under the regional system. At each event we can qualify a Regional Chairman's Award Winner, Engineering Inspiration Award Winner, the winning alliance and possibly a Rookie All-Star. 6*4 = 24. Using the numbers that Frank posted and assuming that all the teams are paid for, we would advance 35/39 teams if we were in districts. 192/2989 = .06765 .06765*570 = 38.56 .06765*510 = 34.5 Let me know if I did my math wrong. |
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Overall, separate from the ability of any particular team to make it to Championships, the NE district teams got a good deal more play time than in previous years for a lower cost. (We had a good year and ended up running in more than 120 matches!) That is a win. |
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Um, doesn't this mean there's probably going to be 6 divisions next year or is this old news? I know it was hinted at in the past. 600 in total vs 400 in total.
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I still think they're going to find a way to do 8 divisions of 65~75 teams. Less teams per division means more matches per team. Plus, it avoids making Einstein too complicated. |
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Regardless, +1 to FIRST for adding a ton more slots. Awesome to grow with the population of teams! |
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9/400=0.0225
9/540=.01667 Thant's more than a 25% reduction of slots for Indiana teams. I don't see how this is anything but bad for Indiana teams. The field at Champs finally increases and we see zero benefit from it. I'm not real happy. |
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Many regions aren't getting any increase in champs slots with the increase from 400 to 600 (as they aren't adding any regionals). CA is sending 6 more teams this year, but the percentage is going down because of the increase. I don't think anyone in CA will complain though. |
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at Crossroads 135 Finalist 5188 Finalist/RAS at Purdue 5010 RAS 3301 Finalist (135 had already qualified by that time) The remainder came from regionals outside the state of Indiana. Since none of the remaining slots were guaranteed we are actually gaining slots Both Indiana contests were loaded with out of state teams last year. Crossroads was brutal! |
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EDIT: It does look like they got a wild card at Queen City but assuming 600 teams like you did in your calculation, Indiana is still guaranteed an extra spot. |
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Please don't post items as truth on this forum if you do not know them to be so.
868 was DEFINITELY not waitlisted in to the CMP. They earned the right to compete as wildcards at QCR. They performed admirably at the World Championships, ranking second in their division and earning the Excellence in Engineering Award. They were also crowned champions at the Indiana State Championship. Also, the notion of Indiana exclusivity doesn't hold water. Sure, teams from other areas may have "poached" qualifying spots in Indiana events, but there's nothing that kept Indiana from doing the same at outside events. See: QCR, SMR, CIR, MWR and others. Don't get me wrong - I'm ecstatic that we're making the switch to districts. We get >50% more plays, close to home, which is the biggest boost to #MakeItLoud that we'll have ever seen to this point. It's also much better on the team pocketbook. But we don't stand to gain any more traction into CMP than years before, and to claim so is silly. |
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As our Indiana friends from Cybercards have mentioned, "... doesn't hold water..."
Water game confirmed:D |
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I crunched some quick numbers and counted 56* listed regional events. Let's say at each regional, the six qualifiers (3 champs, RAS, RCA, EI) are all unique teams. 56*6=336 teams qualifying through Regionals.
The total of the District teams (using capacity 600) is 169. There are 30 pre-qualified teams. 336+169+30= 535 total teams qualifying by merit. That leaves 65 waitlist spaces. Nearly eleven percent of the CMP teams will be there because of waitlist?** That seems odd to me, and very high compared to last year (I seem to recall single-digit waitlist slots). Did I forget something? *I may have miscounted, but the fudge factor wouldn't be substantial. **possibly even higher if events can't fill wildcard slots |
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If a New England team competes at an outside regional and qualifies for the World CMP from that event, they earn a slot. New England will still send the exact same number of teams (if you include this example team), all that happened was that example New England team guaranteed that they were in one of the slots. |
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Those 10 NE teams in my example would still qualify for the Championship but it goes against the number of slots allotted to our district. |
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I'm not sure exactly where the slot goes between the waitlist and IIRC in the past there were more slots handed out between regionals & districts than there were spaces at the Championship however every year there are many teams who can't attend which sends a slot to the waitlist or eliminates it although I'm not entirely sure how it all works. |
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Along these same lines, if the Michigan Championship stays the same size as last year, won't the District CMP for them almost be a formality on the way to Worlds? With possibly 68 slots, and 64 teams there, even accounting for awards of people that don't attend, thats pretty good odds.
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I think this is just going to motivate more regions to go Districts.
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Long Answer: Wait for the FiM announcement... It should be soon.. |
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Why is your long answer shorter than your short answer? ;)
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I think a better system would be to allow a district team to play in a regional but they only make wildcards. If a team is good enough to win a regional they should be able to make enough points to win a slot for CMPs in their districts, if not they won't steal a slot from a team utilizing the district rules. |
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It sucks that you guys started with more slots than you would be allowed under districts...leading to the perception you're losing slots. But fair is fair. |
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Did Indiana get shafted by the District allocation formula? Not even close. Indiana just didn't get enough new teams started this year to keep ahead of the rest of the country (and it looks like one has dropped out in the last week).
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Veteran teams not competing in 2015..... 3301 - a 2014 championship qualifier 4070 4545 4690 4927 Rookie teams added for 2015: 5402 5403 5484 Had we retained everyone and added the three rookie teams we would have gotten an extra slot. |
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Additionally, plenty of teams sign up for 3rd District events that don't help qualification (although these are cheaper). Quote:
Under the current system a bad team could win a weak regional, not earn enough points to qualify in-district, and still go to champs instead of a more deserving team with more points. Imagine if this took place in a regional system. A team wins a weak regional elsewhere. Then, at their 'home' regional, they lose in the finals and one of the winners doesn't qualify. It makes no sense. Quote:
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Could someone please explain this statement from the FIRST website?
"Top Ranked teams at the 2015 District Championships that are not one of the 9 Merit Based Teams." Chairmen's Award Engineering Inspiration Rookie All Star Winning Alliance (3 spots) Where do the other three merit spots come from? If this is correct there will be no open slots in Indiana after merit slots are awarded. |
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So no matter what, districts will get exactly their allocation (plus the # of prequalified teams), while regionals need to pray that district teams don't come and eat one of their slots for no gain. It can also hurt the district, either by skewing distribution of slots, or by qualifying teams who woudn't have qualified after attending the DCMP. Easy solutions is to: 1. Make district teams ineligible to compete for DCA/EI/RAS at regional events. 2. Open a wildcard slot (at the regional) if a district team wins a regional event. Then: A) Take a slot away from the district's "points" slots (reasonable if they have many), and allow that team to register for WCMP OR B) Prevent district teams from qualifying via winning a regional altogether, make them do it via their DCMP (possibly harsh, but solves the "winning a weak regional" issue). District teams should be competing within their district for the award slots, full stop. The rest is pretty justifiable. |
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See this: http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...Kickoff-Taping So Indiana would likely have: 3 Winners 1 CA 1 EI 1 RAS 3/4 "Points" Slots |
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Secondly, more non-MN teams can emerge from MN regionals than the opposite. Non-(MN, ND) teams at MN-hosted Regionals (total 27): Lake Superior - 7 North Star - 7 10000 Lakes - 5 Northern Lights - 8 counterbalanced by (MN, ND) teams at non-MN hosted Regionals: Wisconsin - 11 Others? |
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I believe FIM owns at least three fields (they are running three events every week) Has anyone ever been to the deltaplex in Grand Rapids? How many fields and pits can fit? |
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Out of the 191 teams listed, MN teams are competing at exactly 6 regionals: Code:
Lake Superior : 55Amusingly, this shows that even if MN teams took up all available champs qualifications slots at each of the tournaments they attended, the state would still only send 33 teams, almost a full regional-worth less than we would under a proportional district scheme. As it is, I'd anticipate it to be more around 20-25 teams sent, making it probably the 8th or 9th year in a row that MN has been underrepresented at Championships :P EDIT: Here are the numbers with ND: Code:
Lake Superior : 5617 teams with 2 regionals 176 teams with 1 regional |
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