Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

What if it was 3 alliances of 2, except everyone's partner was on the other side, but we had some inefficient way to communicate, causing the teams to really have to plan and stick to their plan. We would loose the cooperation in person that we are used to, but we would learn how to communicate in situations that aren't ideal. I'm not sure why they would do this, especially since only two teams would win, and it wouldn't make sense for them to create space for more teams in St. Louis.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

But if they had said the ONLY time, it would make people assume that they would never use another surface, and they wouldn't limit themselves like that, even if they didn't plan to use a different surface anytime soon.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Interesting idea...

Three-team red alliance spends first half of the qualification match shooting and scoring balls while the three-team blue alliance stacks and scores tubes. The match pauses at the 60-second mark and the alliances switch roles for the second half of the match. In qualification matches each of the six teams receives the same number of points for each match (no winner, no loser, co-opertition is rewarded). Team rankings for the qualification round are based on total points.

In playoffs, eight three-team alliances take the field one at a time and compete against the clock (no opponent) trying to score the most points possible in the least amount of time. They are free to score any combination of balls and/or tubes. Highest scores advance to the next round.

This lends itself to a six-division Einstein where the top four scoring alliances of the first round move on to semi's.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

1992 the field surface was corn. So that is the correct wording.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Actually, "only time since 1992" would be correct, too - the only way "first" would be correct but "only" would not would be if there had been some time after 2009 where the primary field surface was not carpet.

That said, I seriously doubt they're going to try an alternate field surface again.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

The 2003 endgame required robots to hold a position atop a slippery (HDPE, if I recall correctly) platform at midfield. While that wasn't the primary field surface, it was often quite important to the outcome of a match. Maintaining the endgame "King of the Hill" position was complicated by a new rule for that year, continued down to the most recent game, prohibiting traction enhancements that can damage the field. 71's famous file card drive, which dominated the competition the previous year, made that change necessary.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

First. A hokey game would further make sense because most of the video footage was robots putting stuff into or over goals to score. Like I noticed a LOT of the arms lifting up rubes and balls. So a hockey game I'd different that that, because it would all be one the floor. HONESTLY? the game is going to be all of the floor. Think breakaway.

Second, if the recycling box IS not synonymous with throwing out, then maybe we recycle teams. Like we borrow other teams robots for matches. The ultimate copertition game.

Or third. I like this one the most. There are three teams of two like mentioned before, and the teams are across from each other. And then the end game it switches. So teams on the same side are suddenly on the same team.




I have always dreamed of a game with ultra robust robots that jumped onto a platform for a king of the hill style game.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Well, last year Escanaba had only 36.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I thought about this this morning...what if, say, the red alliance was making a mess and the blue alliance had to clean it up/recycle it? In every other game, both alliances tried to achieve the same goals, maybe this year, one alliance tries to undo what the other does.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

While it's an interesting concept, I don't think FIRST would do something with so little coopertition.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Hmm... '03 Stack Attack + '12 Rebound rumble = 2015 Game?

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Frisbee game is recycled this year

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Do with it what you may, but the song featured in the video is "Social Disgrace." It is a royalty free track available for 10 dollars from WavTracks.

http://www.wavtracks.com/index.php?m...ducts _id=251

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Increase size/wireless 1993
Weight increases 1996
Alliances 1999
Timed Game 2001
Autonomous introduced 2003
3v3 introduced 2005
Not Carpet (only time since 1992) 2009
Frame perimeter changes 2013
Change is coming
Recycled last years manual
1996 footage was from the 1993 competition

That should be the complete list, plus details that other people picked up on. Should be interesting to see how close our guesses are. Personally I think that the changes above will change yet again, aside from switching to wireless, or, the other theory I've got bouncing around inside my noggin is that perhaps we're doing a reboot of the 1996 game, and that's why they didn't show footage.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

While I don't think they'll have a setup where each alliance is designated as "offense" or "defense" for a whole match, maybe we could see a game in which descoring is legal to some extent.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I think they are taking significant things from each game (coop bridge, regolith flooring, assists) and combining it into one massive game.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Please excuse me if I haven't read all 315 posts at the time I started writing this, so this may have been mentioned already.

I think we may have already previewed the change that may be coming. This would also play into the "co-opretition" aspect that FIRST has been implementing since 2000.

What if the change was 4 vs. 4, as we have seen in elimination rounds as of recent. This might be for qualification rounds only, elimination rounds only, or bot qualifications and elimination rounds.
Not that all 8 robots would be in play at all times, but all 8 may need to participate in each match to some degree.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

4 vs. 4 would not work in eliminations unless the 8 alliances are reduced to 6, as some events will not have the 32 teams needed in order to play a full set of elimination rounds (i.e. Waterloo). That's in addition to issues with changing the field size mentioned previously that would make 4 vs. 4 impractical.

But hypothetically, I can see one advantage to downsizing to 6 elimination alliances: it would get teams acclimated to potential round-robin Einstein playoffs between the 6 divisions.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

There's a gospel song titled "Change is Coming". The alternate title is "Hold On".

YouTube link.

Yesterday, a man step to me,
He said how can you smile when your world is crumbling down
I said, here's my secret, when I wanna cry, I take a look around
And I see that I'm getting by

And I hold on
Hold On
A change is coming
Change is coming
Hold on
Hold on
Don't you worry
Don't worry bout a thing
Hold on
Hold on
You can make it
You can make it
Hold on
Hold on
Everything
Everything will be alright

Some people like to worry
Some people like hide
Some people like to run away
From the pain inside
Now it's your business
Do whatever you wanna do
But if it don't work out
Here's what you oughta do

When the troubles of life weigh you down, just lift your head
Yea, yea, yea
When the love you seek is hard to find,
Don't give up, just keep strong, keep ther faith and
Hold on
Change is coming

lala la now hold on

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

The footage from 1993 was NOT reused for 1996. I found both videos where each clip has come from and it is definitely not a reuse of 1993 footage.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Chief Delphi people seem to be thinking more along these lines:
Fleetwood Mac slam!

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Another important point is that we are moving to a new control system this year. Perhaps this could spell changes in the underlying FMS architecture, including additional robots through some wifi trickery. The RoboRIO is only 330 grams, meaning it could potentially be easily lifted by propellers.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I have also found the footage location for the 1997 game and "1999" game used in the hint video. These clips both came from Andy Baker's YouTube (easy to get permission to use) and were a part of the same video. One important thing to note: The footage used for the 1999 segment in the hint video came from a clip of Andy Baker's 1997 video that was BEFORE the clip used for the 1997 video segment in the hint video. This is a quite confusing statement but please reference the pictures for a clearer understanding.

I really do think this has some significance, and despite what others say there is no way that people of FIRST HQ did this on accident. However, this is only my opinion and nobody has any real way of knowing who is right or wrong until Jan. 3. It is fun to analyze things like this though.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

97 and 99 being mixed up has to be big. Just like Cash said, there is no way that was an accident. Especially if the clips both came from the same video.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

:yikes: Whoops! Thanks man, I didn't catch that when I posted it the first time. I guess my fingers autopiloted or something. But there was footage reused. I just got the years wrong. '97 and '99. Sorry about the confusion!

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Earlier, I forgot who it was, someone mentioned that almost never before did the hint talk about the actual game, but actually the name of the competition.

So what does the double of 1997 and lack of 1999 footage relate to the game?

I just though of a name!

CYCLE SWITCH

ha HA! I have no idea what it means though.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Or...just thinking outside the box here, it could simply be a complete accident.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

To the vast majority of teams that never get to Einstein, this wouldn't really be much change. Heck, each year most teams don't even get to elims.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I still don't understand how it could be a complete accident if the footage for both 1997 and 1999 segment in the hint video came from the same 1997 video on YouTube.. Also, frank did comment on the blog with "Whoops." with no further explanation meaning it was most likely a sarcastic comment.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Usually when I hear/see someone say 'Whoops', it means they made a mistake.

How could it be a complete accident? Most likely whoever made the video has not been working at FIRST for over 15 years. They probably had no clue what the 1997 game looked like versus what the 1999 game looked like (Would you?). They were probably just given a bunch of files with clips from the different games to use for this montage, and accidentally clicked on the file for the 1997 game instead of the one for the 1999 game, and never noticed his/her mistake. It's as simple as that.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I haven't read this entire thread, so i apologize if this has already been said, but when viewing the hint this seemed too strange to not mention.

When the video is shown for 2002, it is a clip from one of 71's matches. They were truly dominant, and I've never seen a video of a match where they lost. In the clip shown, they are clearly moving backwards down the field as if they are being out pushed by their opponents. Unless this is a clip of video that I've never seen, I would guess that FIRST deliberately chose to show this clip in reverse.

Just food for thought. :)

Let me know if there is actually a video around in which 71 gets pushed backwards, or if this has already been brought up.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Maybe this year is a "trip back in time?" :ahh:

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I only quickly scanned the multitude of posts, but the theme I see is looking for small incremental changes or specific details in the video.

Instead I see in the video of the listing of fundamental game changes over the years. (They didn't include passing between robots for 2014 for some reason, and included the lack of carpet in 2009 instead.) And then the game manual (which doesn't usually change much) being tossed COMPLETELY. (Recycling is just the environmentally friendly thing to do.)

So think about truly fundamental changes in the game rules that could lead to a completely different string of games for a while.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

It's not in reverse. The timer is ticking down normally, and you can see the balls fall into the goals, not fly out of them.

This is the video where it comes from: http://youtu.be/lAmAnkYDUQM
71 gets pushed back at first, but they ultimately overpower the other alliance and win.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

It is taken from this clip, they did get pushed back a bit in the beginning.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAmAnkYDUQM

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

You're right. I guess it just caught me off guard to see 71 moving backwards. False alarm. lol

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

So, you bring up an interesting point. And no, no one has noticed this yet.
I personally believe that the video is not shown in reverse, since Hammond moved so slow that year that a reverse video would have to be sped up as well but definitely was not. I feel like the backwards motion of 71 must have been the initial push they got before deploying their torque system. But that's all that I can think it is. None of the other clips are backwards.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

"Change" is coming is not a new message from Frank. It must be something relatively fundamental otherwise it would be anticlimactic.

2v2v2: Possible, but doesn’t seem very much like a sport or easy to explain to an outside observer. We have enough trouble with 2 sets of bumpers. 3 would be madness … unless there are no bumper color requirements.

4v4: That would be tough for a 30+ team district event and crowded without smaller robots.

Recycle last year’s game: Recycling games elements is not new. Recycling last year’s game is just odd. (We’re changing by not changing the game.)

No bag and tag / stop build day: Admin manual says otherwise, unless that gets tossed in the recycle bin.

Change size or weight: Possible. Doubt we would go with larger weight or starting configurations. More weight is more cost and a safety hazard. Lighter would need to be for a specific game purpose. The kit base appears to be roughly the same size.

Change the field: Shape is roughly set. Primary surface could be different. Multiple surfaces and elevations have been previously done.

Match length change: Possible. There was a minor change last year. Autonomous end game could be interesting game change, but difficult for most.

Different elimination tournament format / ranking system: Obviously something has to give for Einstein. Don’t see this changing at regional or district events.

As for the game hint, I’m going with the triangular game piece theory because it fits my predefined paradigm. I’ve been waiting for a Triple Play re-do.

David

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

One thing that I'm not exactly sure about is that the entire video is in 4:3 aspect ratio (hence the black bars), and is also maxed out at 360p. This is what causes the newer game clips to look in a bad resolution and look squished. I don't exactly how youtube handles resolution because it might just be a result of mashing together the older videos (which were likely in 4:3 and bad resolution), or it was intentional.

One thing that strikes me though, is that the final part seems to have actually been filmed in 4:3, since it doesn't look squished. Perhaps this means it was actually intentional? This could be going with the idea of a "throwback", maybe recycling something from an older game, like maybe the '97 or '99 game.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Long, long ago....everything was in 4:3 and low resolution. This only changed in the past few years. A high quality video that has to use old content, is also filmed in 4:3. I think it just means that they wanted the hint video to look contiguous.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

How about they just had some guy take video of Frank one day, and they didn't care about the aspect ratio?

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

See post 128;)

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

How did previous game hints relate to their respective games?

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Usually just a word of the title, not really hinting much. Last year what we got from the hint was the assist part.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Somebody mentioned the gospel song "Change is Coming" (Hold On). A quick search shows that it was released in 1994. Maybe we should be looking at the '94 footage. Just a guess.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I was watching all the animations, and the 2008 Overdrive animation says a new position was added, robo-coach, yet the hint video doesn't mention this change. Are there any other changes they missed, intentionally or not?

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of these, please:

2014: Numbers that turned out to be birth dates and assist totals for various athletes who led their respective sports in assists.
2013: Some numbers that were apparently a cipher for a poem, whose lyrics somewhat obtusely referenced a "great seal" (one side of the Great Seal of the US has a pyramid), and contained the word "dinner," which is eaten on plates, which are shaped similar to frisbees.
2012: A list of sensors that could be used for real-time goal counting.
2011: A picture of Little Eva standing next to a pole (minibots climbed poles that year), who had a song entitled "Locomotion" (the game was named "Logomotion"), and a picture of the FIRST logo (game pieces were shaped like the shapes from the FIRST logo).
2010: An out-of-context picture of a CAD of a small part of a field element (namely, the ball-return rail).
2009: A picture of a fish. Specifically, a "moon fish." The game was Lunacy. Yeah.
2008: Three of them that year. Teams were given an IR sensor - teams were allowed to give two-bit IR commands to their robots during autonomous that year. Coordinates that pointed to a statue of a tortoise and a hare in Boston (the game, Overdrive, involved racing). And the string "Vet hurdling FIRST tetra", which in addition to using the word "hurdling" (which was used to refer to throwing the track ball over the overpass in the game rules), was an anagram for "drive straight turn left."

Don't remember any other years.

Edit: Fixed some factual errors, added more information.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Ok I was hoping by looking at previous game hints I could kinda figure out how the GDC comes up with these things, so I started a list of previous game hints and their solutions while waiting for the 2015 hint. Sorry I only analyzed 2014 and 2013 before this year's hint was released. However we can learn several big things from the GDC's previous hints:

1. Game hints can be very intricate or very basic depending on how much time the GDC has. Since this year is a video I'm assuming it's intricate.

2. They threw a curve ball at us, normally its a string of numbers not a video, which annoyed me because there is so much more data in a video making it much harder!!!

3. Based on #1, the solutions to game hints can be a multi-step process, check out the 2013 solution, the people on chief delphi used a cipher (with a slight twist, one # represented 2 different letters) to get a vague riddle which they solved to get the hint, and even then it seemed like a long-shot but it turns out they were correct!

So from this we should learn to never rule out any ideas based on the hint! (unless they are about water games or triple alliances cause FIRST is big on safety, meaning no water, and they already ordered the same fields). This is why I definitely believe the 1999 footage was no mistake, also I noticed everyone found the original footage for each year in the hint quite easily, maybe the hint requires us to look at the original videos and find clues there, like the dates they were uploaded or something,

Attachment 17626

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Download my document if you want to see the full solution to the 2013 hint, it was VERY complicated but the guys on Chief Delphi did actually solve it

Also if anyone has links to the original video footage from the hint for each year please post them, it would be much appreciated and there could be information there on the solution. Usually these things require poking around on the internet

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

The poem's relevance to the 2013 hint was covered in a blog by frank. http://www.usfirst.org/comment/908#comment-908

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

So, here's a screen from near the end of the video:


Something's not right here. The field walls are awfully short (1'8"), and they look to be (correctly) about the height of the recycling bin. But they're almost to Frank's hips! Either his legs are really short... or he's standing in a hole (or the walls are elevated somehow). Does anyone else see this? Or am I just crazy?

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Ya know, there is a way to play 4v4, without totally screwing up the wifi. And without crowding the field. But to do it, you gotta take a page out of hockey's playbook.


2015: Line Change.

4v4, with only 2 robots/side active at a time. Alliances can execute a "line change" at any time by bringing one or both robots from the field to the side of the field and flipping a switch. However, alliances MUST use each robot for a minimum of 30 seconds over the entire match or take a penalty of moderate value.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

That would give more rise to the believers in the hockey game.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Neither. He's standing in midfield and the camera is angled funny. Try it yourself: Put a bar at knee-high, stand several feet in front of it, then have a friend take your picture with the camera up around the top of their head and pointing near your chest. You should be able to have the bar end up at about hip height (or higher, maybe) before it's obvious that the camera is high.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. I think it's more of a perspective problem.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I've met Frank in person and he's only so tall. About the same height as Dean or slightly less. I think Woodie is taller.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

The carpet changed color for 2010 (green) and 2012 (brown), game pieces change, 2009 introduced the cRIO ... there are tons of unmentioned changes.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

That was the one I got right....

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...4&postcount=79

.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Little Eva, not Aretha Franklin. The column in the picture represented the minibot pole.

Remove "picture"--it was physically sent to teams. You could have up to 4 commands.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Was on the blog post and noticed this:

Is it actually an error?

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

We've been over this 5 times now. We believe that was a sarcastic "whoops" more like a "whoops, hint hint, you're getting warmer" there is no way they did that on accident! the GDC spent some time making this, if you don't think the GDC spends time making the hints look at the solution to the 2013 hint!!!!

Also it's currently our only solid lead, so we're running with it.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

To everyone thinking of posting on this thread -
Yes, it might be over 300 posts already, but if people refuse to go back and read the previous pages before posting, new posts are just going to keep going in circles.

Or, as I have pointed out, there is just as much (perhaps more so) chance that it actually WAS an accident, and the 'whoops' is simply just a 'whoops'...

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

There is only one game hint that I can remember (other than the 2013 one mentioned above) that actually gave teams a possible advantage with robot design: 2009 Game Hint #2, which was a cryptic riddle including cities in the US, and teams figured out sooner or later that it referred to ice. Now, more people on the forum were worried about how the competitions were going to freeze and maintain ice (obviously they used regolith instead), but teams could have feasibly worked out the physics behind low-friction surfaces. But that's it.

All other game hints that I recall only hinted at the name or other vague clues that are never any actual help to teams.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

3-3-2-2-2-4-4. I have a feeling these numbers are important. Game hints have always had numbers and some of these changes seem forced as if they were trying to get these numbers.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

The last two sentences above Frank's name say that the hint revealed this week is to be taken at face value; don't try to read more into it. That said, I would be a bit surprised if the name of the game doesn't include "change".

GeeTwo

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I think that this year is going to have multiple gamepieces with different geometry. Earlier, FIRST tweeted a picture of a gamepiece from Lunacy, then something about Lunacy itself. A major element to Lunacy was exchanging those empty cells for super cells, or "changing" one gamepiece into another. After that, there's this hint. Bill flips to the page of the 2014 manual that's about cycles. Then he says "Change is coming." Probably referring to cycles. Then he tosses the paper into a recycling bin where it will be changed into something else. I think that this year's game will involve exchanging one gamepiece for a different one, with different geometry. It would also be a significant change, because, from what I can gather, every FIRST game so far has had only one geometry type for their gamepiece.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

A search of these numbers on Google brings up this Wikipedia Article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formati...on_football%29
Football related game? ::rtm::

EDIT: A CTRL F of the Wiki page does not specifically show a 3-3-2-2-2-4-4 sequence.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

as stated somewhere in the middle of the 350 some odd posts, many recent games have two words that start with similar sounds.

If the hint is "to be taken at face value" than

Assuming like many hints, It has a reference to the name.

Unless "change" means currency in the form of coins, I would expect "Changeup or exchange (as mentioned earlier)" or some other form of the word "change" to be part of the name.

I am thinking "(insert word starting with CH sound) (Word with "change" as root)"

The word starting with CH (or maybe c sound) would refer to the "change that is coming" or maybe the sport that is the theme of this years game

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I'm hoping for Tetras again. After 2005 I thought to myself, 'these things are nifty, FIRST will use them again.' So I have a corner of my garage full of them.

-Jim
P.S. 2005 was ten years ago, and ten is such a well rounded number.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Ah, yeah, that's right. It's been a while.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I agree with this. Your logic is sound, and it seems like different geometry would be an interesting, fun, and hard challenge.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Thank you Frank and the rest of FIRST GDC - even though I too get wrapped up in the fracas that is the game hint - the fallout is entertaining!

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I was in a living room full of people when I watched the game hint video, I needed a fan afterwards or something because all I could get out was (literally almost word for word "Oh my god, oh my god, how could they, this is to much, ahhh, i'm so excited, oh my god, did they just, of course they did, did he throw it away I CANNOT believe he threw it away" I didn't have much success explaining the reaction to those around me, the bewildered expression on their faces stayed. I do hope some serious spice in thrown in this year, always fun for a new challenge. My first year since starting not being a student, hopefully I can find places and time to help out between classes

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

so after reading through all 375 posts, the 2v2v2 idea using the 60" object seems legitimate. If the object was a team indicator light, it would be relatively easy to "change" the teams from 3v3 to 2v2v2. First already requires us to have a few mandatory lights so a new one wouldn't be so surprising. Also seeing as how the rules from 2014 were just terrible, we should see a significant change regardless of the other mechanics.

And of course for the random speculation: some game involving one team chasing the next, kind of like the arrows on the recycle sign. Would also tie in with the cycle idea that he flipped to.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

The whole emphasis on recycling and the use of past video made me go hunting through the video of last year's championships on the FRC teams global youtube page... What's with the video from galileo SF 1 - 2? It has a short clip at the start. :confused:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzoN...YQ9&ind ex=63

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

This is more speculation by me, but it would kinda fit if there were dynamic alliances as someone previously mentioned. This would not only explain the odd change from "Elimination matches" to "Playoff matches", because it would require a different format for these matches. It also fits in with the theory that the 3x3x60 object is a team indicator. This also would explain the replacement of the '99 game footage, sort of symbolizing a replacing of alliances, which were first in '99.

This is completely different from that theory, but I think the game piece will be some sort of inner tube, since the '97 game and '99 game both used that shape.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I expect it was part of one of the sponsor ads they had playing on loop. They went on display when nothing else needed to be shown, so the video guy was probably just snoozing.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

This has been posted before by someone else on my team, but I wanted to bring it up again since there seems to be a lot of hype around the "increased alliances" theories...

From the administrative manual (Section 5.1.2 I believe) which has been released for 2015 already:

The manual talks about Bag and Tag, so they are keeping that. It also talks about how Practice Matches are assigned to teams and how it must be divisible by 6 before giving free practice matches, which basically confirms 6 robots on the field.

Obviously, FIRST could have made a mistake in the manual or be hiding things only to give us an updated version later. I don't really know how solidified these administrative manuals are.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

This is a dead end. Here is the link to the image seach
Google Image Search

And here is the video, which is actually kinda funny.
Family Safety Discussion Youtube

this probably had more to do with the video that it orginally was with. I'm guessing that when FIRST found the video off another user, when they copied the video they also copied a bit of the ad before it! This was fin to find though, and a good find on your part!!

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

That sounds like the Jim I know.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Here's what I think the thought process was from FIRST HQ regarding the game hint....

-Release a video as a game hint but try to sneak through the fact that we purposely not including footage from the 1999 game
(Knowing we would eventually figure that out)
- Look up the omitted game
- The only mention of the 1999 game on the FIRST website is a short description (Here) which specifically mentions "pucks"

Rubber pucks being too hard, foam pucks are the solution...

http://thestore.gameops.com/category_s/46.htm

Already sold in Red and Blue and at 2 7/8" in diameter, they would fit nicely in a long tube which is being given to teams because the minimum order of 100 is a little high for many teams so FIRST bought a bunch and is helping teams out. A 3" x 3" x 60" tube should do nicely.

Oh, and the "changes" refers to "line changes"

Hockey Game confirmed.

Let's get some sleep before kickoff, good work gang.




;)

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I'm not trying to discredit anything you said there (personally I love the hockey game idea and I was actually hoping that last year's game would be hockey), but there might be some problems with the math involved.

Firstly, actual hockey pucks are made to be an inch thick. Of course, this could be different for the foam pucks (the website only gives a diameter, not a thickness), but I feel that, if anything, you could actually compress the foam pucks down to less than an inch thick. Which means that if you believe that the 3" x 3" x 60" object from the KOP is a tube for holding the foam pucks, then each team will be receiving around 60 pucks in their tube. Now the website for the foam pucks says that they each weigh approximately 2 oz. If we take 60 pucks multiplied by 2 oz. each, then we end up with 120 oz. or 7.5 Lb. However, the KOP list states that the 3" x 3" x 60" object weighs only 6 pounds. While it's not a huge difference by any means, but it is significant (a difference of 12 foam pucks).

But that doesn't necessarily shut down that idea. The easiest solution is that both the foam puck website and the KOP list state that the measurements are only approximate. A little change in the weight of each puck (as small as 0.4 oz.) could make up for the difference. Additionally, the tube does not need to be jammed as full as possible with pucks. There can easily be 12 inches of empty space or packaging in each tube to made up for the 12 pucks worth of weigh. And that just seems to make more sense to me because I don't see the need for every team to receive 60 pucks. 60 just seems a tad bit excessive (unless if you plan to go to a hockey game soon and throw them onto the rink).

So really, while there may have been some minor math problems with your idea (clearly someone forget that we always assume that we are working in a frictionless vacuum with spherical cows), they can all be easily justified. So in reality, this post should have made your claim just a little bit stronger. Which is great because now I can say:
HOCKEY GAME CONFIRMED!

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Why would pucks be shipped Ina tube rather than just thrown in a box? That makes no sense.

I think more emphasis needs to be placed on the recycling bin, rather than the red herring that another game will be recycled. I can imagine a game where things must be sorted into different bins (I.e. Compost, recycle, garbage). Of course we won't be actually sorting out real garbage, just a representation. The clips from previous years, I think, just are what they represent themselves to be; examples of drastic changes from previous years.

Of course I could be way off base.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

I'm just going to leave this here: Recycle Robot

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Check this out:

3 allainces with 2 robots each, a game like 1997. Item D in the kickoff-kit contains allainces flags, representing your allaince. Each team will discover its allaince only in the begining of the match. A fair competition will be - that your teammate is always on the other side of the field. Item C is tubing!.

How's that?
1999 is the first year with allainces. In the frc game hint video FIRST replaced 99' footage with a 97' game. Somebody mentioned it in frank's blog post, and frank replied - "whoops." - which means it was not by mistake.
99' was the first year of the allainces 2vs2, but we already have a 3vs3 and a total of 6 teams on each match - which might be changed to 2vs2vs2. Somebody mentioned here that FIRST changed the name of the elimination matches to 'playoffs' - which supports the idea. By replacing its footage in the game hint video they tell us 99' is somehow connected to 97' and both somehow connected to 2015.
Both 99' and 97' game objects are tubes, which may tell us that this year game object will be, as well, tubes!.

I bet the name of 2015 game will include the word "change".

:)

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

A Change of Pace

Change Over

Ring the Changes

Sea Change (here come the water game comments)

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

FIRST things FIRST.

Wonderful to see all of the posts from new CD members.

Those who admitted to not reading all of the posts = good.
Those who expected others to correct their laziness = bad.
Netiquette, people! :)

I really should be wrapping gifts right now.

If Justin is close, and I think he is, then I would credit:
Not "NEW TO FIRST GAMES". Aim High (2006) used the Offense/Defense periods, so we may see a return to that. That may be the "change" mentioned in the clue.
They have Hockey in New Hampshire, don't they?

Supplying teams with enough game pieces in the KoP (the long tube) would also eliminate past complaints about obtaining said game pieces.

I think the "Whoops" was indeed sarcastic. FIRST ain't stoopid.

While I think the recycle bin might be important, (It also has the triangle, delta = change), I am not sure how it would work. It may be a second game piece that multiplies your score if you can stack them. A recycle of Stack Attack (2003).
In that game, teams were rewarded for stacking the "bins", but in the end, they were so easy to tip over that the endgame of "King of the Hill" on top of the ramps trumped the stacking of the bins.

Having two different game pieces would require two different manipulator systems.
This would challenge teams on a decision-making level about resource choices.

I need to find the wrapping paper, tape, and a good pair of scissors.

One problem with pucks, like Ultimate Ascent, is the Real Time scoring model.
Like professional sports, this aspect is important in creating a game with tension for the players and spectators.
The game will likely need to incorporate this.
So, how would the pucks be "counted"?
(Stacking recycle bins would be obvious to a spectator and the scorers.)

You know, gift bags are easier than wrapping paper.

Also, going along with the sports model, will the rules address Robot Concussions?:eek:

#GameHintHijack
#AnEngagingWasteofTime
#EnjoyYourFamilies

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

99 was played with floppies (round fabric filled with what feels like packing peanuts) but I agree that it might have something to do with placing a game piece in some fashion in both 97 and 99 which involved having their respective game pieces a certain height to score bonus points.

What if we are "recycling " 2 games??? 4 two team alliances ! One set playing one game the other playing the other!! Massive loss of points if the teams reuse their previous mechanisms.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

After doing extensive analysis of the video, trolling this thread of nearly 400 comments (many repetitive), and many other threads related to game hints, etc…..
In my opinion (we all know what they say about opinions)
1. The missing 1999 video we have all figured out is intentional and we’ll be playing some variation of that game.
2. The long tube in the kit of parts will hold a fiberglass pole(or multiple poles) with a colored or numbered flag (bicycle flag for us older people)
3. The recycle bin utilized in the video did not have any text on it, only the symbol. This to me was not so much for recycling, as repeating. There has been speculation for years about making a game Auto/Tele/Auto. Why not, it would show how good your driver is to get back to the correct position and orientation for a follow-on Auto, or demonstrate your programming and use of sensors by leaving the robot anywhere and having it locate itself.
4. Or the symbol, could be 2v2v2…..I just throw that in for fun….we are too set on our 3v3 on a rectangular field. And there are too many teams who have built and/or purchased rectangular fields to mess with that.

Now that we have all beat the proverbial dead horse, :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: let’s all relax for a few days before the madness really begins.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

99 - Wayne Gretzky

(any teams from Brantford, ON?)

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

What if we started a new view on this matter...

I have read all 390 posts, and everyone seems to be focusing on what has changed for FIRST over the past 23 years...

What if we look at what has been the same?

One part of the games have stayed the same consistently throughout every game.

Just a thought for new perspective. Because if you think about it, "Change is coming" could mean they're doing something they've never ever done before... So what have they done every single year?

There's only ever been one game piece. Different colors, sure, but the same size/ shape. What if there's multiple and that's the change?

Just a thought, a lot of people seem to be over thinking it. :)

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

2004 had different sizes of balls robots had to manipulate

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

1996 had two different size balls too...

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

That's still the same shape though...

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

You're right that there's never been two completely different types of game pieces.

You could consider the goals in 2002 acting as game pieces, IMO, because they would only score if placed in a particular zone.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Conversely, I think they will take away games pieces, and they robots will be expected to interact more with the field and other robots.

For example, there may be a puzzle or maze on the field requiring robots to cooperate to complete it in a timely manner. Someone suggested a fencing game when I proposed no game pieces on reddit.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Did anyone notice the hight of the side rail? It looks twice as high than the last few challenges, or am I seeing things wrong?

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

No you're seeing right, the side rail is to about Frank's midsection which makes it considerably higher.

I'm not taking too much from that but it could mean a considerable field change.

Re: 2015 HINT DISCUSSION
 

Maybe the hint is only meant to convey the name of the 2015 game.

Video of previous year's challenges could be seen as "flashback". Mention of change coming is "foreshadowing".

Game name "Flash Forward"?

What would this have to do with the actual game? Perhaps a zoned field - a robot's turn to play in the "forward" zone would be indicated by flashing lights: