Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

But the world is a very scary place. That is the unfortunate truth of things.

Maybe someone saw something on a website relevant to the game and thought "wow, change really is coming. I want to discuss this thing I found with the community."

Not everything is negative just because some people see it that way. Even if you feel that this is the worst thing someone can do; try to remember that this is a chance to measure your character, not someone else's.

You seem to be doing that, but at the same time you ask what good does it do to spread the information. I'll just ask, what good does it do to get so worked up over something you have no control over? Can you imagine if this thread never existed? Most of us would have never even known that anything happened.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

Logic, as a defense to a bad act, is not a defense at all. Your "logic" would make all ill gotten information on the web fair game no matter how much damage it would do to someone or organization. EX: the recent Sony leaks or the release of any personal information on the interwebs be in stolen or not.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

You are presupposing that your view on the badness of the act in question is the correct one on a topic where that is very far from clear. Logic is useful precisely in determining whether or not an act is bad - what you've said is akin to dismissing the use of logic to resolve the trolley problem.

If you assume that every claim I make is intended as some sort of fundamental law and not as a heuristic which may or may not be useful in the current situation, then maybe so.

That's not how I intend the things I say to be taken, though. It is a monstrous leap from what I said to "all information ever put on the internet should be publicized as much as possible in all circumstances." I try to put enough caveats in my claims to make this clear - I'm sorry if I haven't done a good enough job of it.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

In a perfect world, people wouldn't spread information FIRST didn't want out there and would report the leak to the proper people. Had I found the leak firsthand, there are about a half-dozen employees at the company I could start Facebook messaging within seconds. Even if I didn't know them personally, the main phone number is not hard to come by.

Alas, we don't live in a perfect world and some people think spreading like this is a fun way to score imaginary internet cool points. Once it's out there, all us moderators can do is stop the bleeding. Yes, it means the people that first saw the thread are now in on the presumed scoop and can do as they please, but it does prevent that from spreading further on the venues we control.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

I am conflicted about information that is "out there". Some of it (the Pentagon Papers, for example) hurt someone but accomplished a major public good, and I am glad I read them. Salacious reports on celebrities love lives and costume changes do nothing good, I think, and I don't seek them out. Wikileaks sits somewhere in between, and I'm not sure what to think about the public value.

In this case, I don't know that any greater good is being accomplished, but neither do I think there is a lot of malice and poor sportsmanship being exhibited. We've got three more days to wait patiently, and that is what I intend to do.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

No, no it's not. Relaying information you know should not be pubic makes you just as culpable as the person who first found the information. The web allows you to do a lot of things you would not do normally. So how would it be different from a student who was given a test key from someone else and then posted it online? nothing. Everyone involved is guilty. We as community need to have certain absolutes. Disseminating leaks should not be tolerated by this community no matter how many degrees of separation there is from the original leak there is.

I know, I am not supposed to put my personal values on other people, but I believe there are certain lines that should never be crossed. They were crossed this preseason.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

This seems like an absolute claim that gives no room for adjustment based on the nature of the information and the context. Whether or not perpetuating information that "should not have been public" is a good or a bad thing, I think, depends critically on these things. There is no moral absolute here.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

I missed this in my first reply, so let's talk about this here.

I follow the auto industry a good bit, just the nature of my day job. When a new model is coming out, it's almost always the case that some publication leaks it out. Not even an accident, sometimes they're flaunting it or sometimes their print magazine hits the newsstands a smidgen early. In that case, the media embargo is fast crumbling and the auto makers will often just open up the flood gates with more information.

However, this is FIRST. Anyone that's done this dance, and any reasonable person that hadn't, would tell you that FIRST does not want Kickoff information published before Kickoff! Errors will happen, and it is on all of us who may see such errors to do the right thing. I fail to see how anyone can construe that the responsible thing to do here to do anything other than report it to the appropriate people with the company and then clam up until Kickoff to maintain alignment with FIRST's desired outcome as closely as possible.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

Seeing as someone else mentioned the original poster of the leak was new at it was his/her first post, it's entirely possible that they didn't know or think that it was a leak. They could have been new to FIRST and possibly thought that it was another hint.

I'm not saying that they did; I nor anyone else could know what they were thinking. But it's something you have to consider.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

I was initially disagreeing with you, but I find that analogy to be pretty accurate. The only difference is that FRC is essentially "graded on a curve", so it's actually more fair to release it to everyone rather than just keep it to oneself and thereby break the curve.
That being said, I do agree with you that it should not have been released. The optimal course of action would have been to keep silent (even from one's own team) until kickoff, and report to FIRST immediately. Obviously it is impossible to stop oneself from thinking about it, but in ultimately it makes very little difference if one person is given a small hint and a few days to think about it beforehand.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

If you are referring to those who continued to post the "leak" after they were requested not to, than I will agree with you. That is disrespectful.

If you are referring to those who originally found the "leak", I disagree with you. Whoever found the "leak" did not know if it was legitimate or not. Just look at all the "Game Hint?" threads that appear each year, after something Dave said, Frank wrote, or a gut feeling Bob has. It's exciting, especially for younger students, to think they have information to share with the community. The only difference between this and the many "Game Hint?" threads is this may have been real.

I think it may be best for this discussion to be put on pause until after kickoff. I think any discussion will be difficult until everyone is able to be fully informed on the situation.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

Oh god that coupled with this degree of heated debate scary thought. I would hate my first post to bring this much flak in from an honest mistake. To sit down at a table full of wise men and then first words out of your mouth to start a fire storm...
Its not that you aren't welcome its that you got off on the wrong foot and I truly hope none of the strong opinions on this thread turn students away from this wonderful resource just because they feel like they will draw heat for making a mistake.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

Just to clarify I wasn't agreeing with either and tbh I wish that this whole situation never happened. I only wanted to set some facts straight as there is definitely a different thought process that occurs in posting the info originally and in wanting something already told to some to remain public. Whether either is right is, as with all moral debates, an opinion. People aren't going to agree (and shouldn't expect too :D )

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

I would just like to say, thank you to the moderators who removed the leaked information. I'm not an active poster on Chief Delphi, but lately I've been periodically browsing through the game hint discussion thread, to see what ideas people are throwing around. Kickoff is very exciting for me, and the complete lack of knowledge is part of that. If by chance I had happened to see the leaked info, it would have hurt that experience irreparably.

I think the people who are arguing that "once it's public, it's public" and that it's futile to try to suppress it are missing the point: many people don't want to see leaked information. And when I'm on a site like Chief Delphi, I assume that I won't see that kind of information. If an episode of a TV show I like is leaked, I know that I can easily find the leak if I look for it. But I also trust that the sites I frequent will not link to that information, not because they believe they can suppress or un-leak it, but for the sake of visitors who don't want to see leaked information. We can and should be able to have the same experience that we would if nothing had leaked at all, and seeing the leaked information splattered everywhere would ruin that. I expect, as a matter of course, for a massively-influential, semi-official site, such as Chief Delphi, to have a policy of not showing any leaks or linking to them. I'm glad to see that the moderators here live up to that standard and appreciate the responsibility that comes with moderating such a prominent site.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

The original poster of the leak mentioned in the post that he/she noticed something. Then asked if it's ever been done like that before. It was a very innocent post of information and a question. The poster DID NOT post anything to the likes of calling it a leak, hidden information, or the likes.

Knowing the leaked information, no one could figure much out. It would only stir up the imagination more. There is no way that anything major about the game could be figured out to give anyone an advantage.

Deleting the threads was the choice of the moderators/administrators, I may not agree for circumstantial reasons, but I respect it. Just because it was deleted, does not mean that it was posted as a "HEY ALL HERE'S A LEAK" thread.

This thread has turned very sour and those of you who are adults should be ashamed about the uneducated judgements you are dishing out publically. Students frequent here and you're supposed set an example. If you want to bicker, do it in a PM, email, or phone conversation. I hope this thread gets deleted, it has gone down the wrong road and is a very poor example of the values of FIRST.