Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

This point was mentioned early in the discussion but I believe that it has been nearly forgotten amidst debate on the morality of spreading leaks. While this is an important discussion to have in case of future, more serious leaks, I believe there is something more pertinent and, most importantly, positive about this situation.

That is that the information that was leaked, whether it was real or fake, offers little to no considerable advantage to anyone. I saw it and know quite a few people who have also seen it. I spent possibly a minute looking it over, and then went back to finishing my college applications. None of the people I know have put more thought into it than they have into actual game hints.

I don't seriously believe anyone is going to spend the coming of a new year in the shop prototyping and designing off of incomplete information that may mean different things based on the actual game, and may or may not be true.

My 2c.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

Just as an observation:

I noticed in this thread that there really seem to be two different perceptions of FIRST as an organization.

On one end there is a "the small town" or "small company" perception of FIRST, where people feel a real give and take with FIRST HQ and see FIRST HQ in a very personal light.

On the other end there is a "big city view" or "corporate" of FIRST. The relationship with FIRST is much less personal. This view sees FIRST HQ as the organization that releases the game rules, runs worlds, and that's about it.

I wonder where the position on this spectrum of an "average team" is and where it will shift as FIRST continues to grow.

Again, this is pretty irrelevant to the main topic of the thread (though so is much of the debate on this thread anyways). It's just something I noticed, and I was wondering if anyone else noticed it as well.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

Agreed. I feel sorry for the poster, who is now being scrutinized by, to quote another post I saw earlier
We don't know what they were thinking, it is entirely possible there was no ill intent behind the post, and just something someone found and wanted to share with the community. Consider this: if they really wanted to get an advantage, why would they even post it rather than keeping it to themselves?

This thread wasn't even originally about the poster/leak themselves, it was about the removal of the posts by the moderators. I don't understand exactly how this became a trial by jury. I think it's in everyone's best interest to forget this, let the mods handle it, and enjoy our few remaining days until Kickoff.

EDIT: I was informed that the leak was posted to social media as well, where it could really spread like wildfire, as opposed to somewhere like CD where everyone has access and is able to discuss things. My opinion has definitely changed a bit...

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

Quoted for all the truths

Well this is concerning now that it seems to be stated that someone who wanted to participate in the learning process of FIRST robotics just brought moms home made ribs to the vegan picnic. As mentors and coaches we have a major impact on those who we teach and we need to remember that our actions in the pit, on the internet, or even in a classroom all have weight. As someone who has worked summer camps I stand behind all my actions because they are what I believe in. That is not to say I am right all the time, that is to say I am passionate about what I believe in. Yet those emotions and opinions I am passionate are not allowed to stop kids who signed up for a sports camp to have fun. The same goes as a mentor for robotics.
I am allowed to have opinions, and thoughts, and beliefs. But not for a single second would I want those emotions to stop someone from learning because that is selfish.

I don't care if none of that makes sense at this point cause in all honesty I am getting upset and I need to step back.
In the end the most important point I want to get through is that those aren't just random pixels on your screen forming words. Those are the thoughts and opinions of another human being, and they should be respect, regardless of failure or success human beings deserve respect.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

I feel bad this happen, but it happen. CD mods did the right thing, but I think they are fighting a losing battle.

I wouldn't be surprised if FIRST announces something about it soon. It didn't take long for an old hack like myself to figure it out (but have told no one). I can only assume it is spreading through back channels amongst the teams that choose to keep themselves informed. So now it is an advantage for those teams. And those that aren't as informed will be even more at a disadvantage. Just what we need now, more inequity.

And if you don't think it is an advantage, I know many FIRSTers that don't have school this week that would love to CAD up some ideas.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

Delphi always bubbles down to "trial by jury". You have a forum full of people who lead teams who have differing opinions, and they're all trying to be "more-GP" than each other.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

At this point what I find most disappointing that individuals and teams have taken to other public mediums of communication in an effort to further spread this leak. I understand that people have different ideas when it comes to the free flow of information, and everyone absolutely has the right to say what they want via non-moderated forms of communication, but I guess I'm just disappointed the members of this community would ignore FIRST's wishes to keep their confidential information private. I know that this was inevitable, nevertheless it's still disappointing.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

I think what it boils down to is that people reposting the leak don't view the information as "their [FIRST's]" information anymore.

I'm not commenting on whether that viewpoint is wrong/right, but it certainly is a understandable opinion IMHO.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

Yup. It's a viewpoint I disagree with, but I can understand how a reasonable person would take that stance.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

On the subject of people knowingly doing anything wrong with the information, we do all need to remember that FIRST is full of people which means they won't all view the core values the same or even care about them at all. Being on a FIRST team does not mean someone will be, or even want to be an upstanding exsemplery human just as much as it means not being on a team doesn't mean someone won't display what we call GP.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

The original post revealing the leak was not trying to spread a leak. The guy was from a new team, had one post, and was asking what it meant.

I've removed a few words, but here's what he said:

On [website], there is one object labeled [something]. It has the same description as [something else], but just [some picture] as a picture. Have they done this in the past? Could this mean we will have [something that the leak doesn't mean]?

Imagine you were this person, and all these people were arguing if you were GP or not. You probably wouldn't be feeling so great right now. Please be considerate, and don't accuse people without knowing the full story. A few unfortunate accidents were made yesterday, and we should try to move past them and get on to kickoff.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

I just want to be clear, I am not upset with "the dude" who originally posted on CD. I am throughly disappointed in certain members of this community who then took that info and ran with by posting it on multiple social media outlets. They knew better and did it anyway.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

I have been watching this thread and while everyone has their opinion I guess I should share mine.

For those of you think it is "fair game" to spread confidential information once it is public, I say this: I will never, ever consider hiring you to work for me. Ever. No apology, explanation, or other rhetoric will change my mind. You can't be trusted with confidential information.

It is really sad that some posters think the prolific spread of confidential FRC info is ok.

Paul

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

The moderators are excellent people that everyone should be happy are affiliated with these forums. FIRST is correct in taking game leaks and censorship very seriously.

Re: Chief Delphi Moderators Censoring Posts
 

As someone who acted on the information, please let me share my side. At the time, there was no indication that the information was not supposed to be out in public. To be honest, I stumbled across the same link, prior to the first post appearing on CD, while trying to get to some FTC info. Like any other thread that even vaguely looks like a hint, it took off like wildfire. At this point sharing any thoughts and vantage points is the norm.

Then, as soon as the thread was deleted, my entire thought process changed. Maybe this wasn't supposed to be known. Was this an accident? What am I supposed to do? I really felt (and still do) bad about the decision I made, but I could not undo what had been done. What hurt the most is seeing the picture I made pop up on other websites - after it was deleted from CD.

Looking back and knowing what I know now, I guess it is pretty obvious that the info should not have been shared on CD (which ultimately led to it being shared elsewhere). I know that there is nothing that I can really say to fix this, but I still want to apologize for my actions.