Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

Pre-fab would be a little unfair, I think. At least with designs it's possible to share everything. You can't exactly give a sample item to every team.
It's the only good way to keep a level playing field IMO. It's definitely not a rule I like (swerves are resource-heavy, after all) but I see the necessity.
If there is a better solution, I would be very pleased if it was implemented.

EDIT: Yes, veteran teams have an advantage, but there's no need to make the gap even wider.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

In years past, there were three possible sources of components/designs in a robot:
1) COTS items
2) items designed and/or implemented during build period
3) items designed outside of the build period that were published as public domain prior to kick-off.

I maintain that, if a team wants to design items (before the build period) that they may use during build, those designs must be readily available - that's the cost that FIRST assigns to the privilege of shifting these activities outside of the build period. Not providing all of the pertinent information needed to implement the design (by reasonably skilled parties with reasonably available resources) violates the spirit of this option.

We'll need to wait until Saturday to see if the 2015 rules are different in this regard.

I heartily agree with the earlier poster - these type of rules should be released with the administrative rules.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

Am I the only one that thinks that Frank's post was a game hint? I'm serious, BTW.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

Which part? The rule isn't exactly something new.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

Pre-fab components are a huge advantage for teams. The longer a team has been around, the more pre-fab "components" they have. Many games we have today are similar to previous games that have been played. For example, Logomotion could have been played with a robot from Rack 'N Roll with only a few changes. How would you feel going up against an Einstein-winning robot from a previous year, one that the team spent the entire 6 weeks driving and improving? Rebound Rumble wasn't all that different from Aim High (similar balls, shooting, etc). Aerial Assist and Overdrive. Allowing pre-fab components opens the door wide open for older teams to have an even bigger advantage than they already do.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

You're right - it's not new at all. That makes it strange that he would emphasize the rule.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

It is so the rule isn't retroactively enforced after kickoff. It is a rule that most veteran teams know but rookies may not and learn the work they did has been made partially invalid. Only due to a rule enforcing something that happened before the rule could have been known.

I hope that makes sense.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

This is my take on it, as well. Occam's razor tells me that it is extremely unlikely that this is a game hint.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

You would never see an "Einstein" level team (or any right minded veteran for that matter) re-use a complete robot, or even a complete game piece manipulator mechanism from a previous year. Teams would build a better one that is optimized to the specifics of the game piece and game. Their knowledge base is the true asset, not the hardware. Besides, they wouldn't deprive their students of the build experience.

My point is that "In a World" (great movie BTW) where you can buy FRC-specific COTS assemblies, why not let teams use a gearbox, swerve module, leftover gusset/bracket, or chassis they built previously (provided they publish the design and declare it on their BOM)? Let them have the same "workload-shifting" advantage as a team that uses the kit chassis or a checkbook. The current rules discourage us from building anything that can be purchased (which increases every year), and really don't provide veteran teams with a meaningful advantage that is worth regulating (IMHO).

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

But if so much change is coming, why do I want to use my old designs? :rolleyes: ;)

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

I'd like to think that the rule clarification has to do with extending the season so roboteers can work year round. (And that popping sound you just heard was mentors heads exploding at spending more time. The slap sound was divorce papers being served. C'est la vie. It's hard to turn brains off once you get them started)

The off season design stuff is cool. For example I'd love to see the details of Aren's swerve design, the "COT support" for the main shaft is a key thing. So I'm thinking a step file and a BOM should cover most of it.

But we've come a long way from the days when I'd cruise the pits and see robots covered with trashbags to hide the internals.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

This was a thing? Wow.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

It was. And trying to get a picture was a very interesting event. I have lots of shots of team shirts suddenly on top of drive trains....

Aye matey, 'tis a great memory of roboteers, just mere lasses and lads, hiding the bounty of their efforts :rolleyes:

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

Ok this opinion might not be too popular but I feel it needs to be discussed by others. I always thought the now rule R13's two primary intents were for teams not to use the 'same' robot each year and that other teams could be inspired to try other's designs in a GP way. I love this rule as I have spent hundreds of hours looking at other teams' designs just so I might see something that would help our kids. My problem is that it seems like teams are now, just days before kickoff, all of a sudden posting their designs. I can't say that these designs wouldn't have been posted without the blog post of the rule release, but I can say if a team released their design just due to the post instead of to help other teams then I am a bit disappointed of the community just because it seems like some teams , general statement not pointing out any individual, are just doing it because it was a rushed point. On the other side it is always nice to remind teams of this helpful rule, but it would have been better to put it in the already released admin manual so that teams get more than a few days to look over quickly done up designs. Hopefully I'm not to big of a scrooge on FIRSTmas and I hope every team has a fantastic build season this year.

Re: FRC Blog - Some Tidbits Before Kickoff
 

I think some of it is more that teams are trying to get their offseason project CAD files into a presentable state that others would understand all of the details. There are teams working on their offseason designs up until the last minute.