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2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
Alright ladies and gents, now the fun part. What is the max score that each side of the fields can come up with? Highest auton score? What will be the highest stack of the year? What scores do you expect from weeks 1 and 2 all the way to champs?
(Im looking at rules and crunching numbers as I post) |
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I'm going through this too, uggh. Ill post my findings as soon as I can manage.
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Im trying to figure out the wording on the auton. Can you move the grey bins in auton? I havnt found a rule about it, I dont think it was mentioned. Does the 20 stacked bin mean if you had 3 on the scoring spot, 2 stacked one not you would have 2x20 plus 1x6?
EDIT: Im looking but havnt found anything about it yet |
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The three yellow totes earn 6 points if they are all in the auto zone. They earn an additional 14 points if they are stacked. |
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There are 3 per side.... So if there were 3 seperate stacks it would be 6 points. 3 stacked would be 20? what about 2 stacked and one not?
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There are three yellow totes per side.
If they are all in the autonomous zone you get 6 points. If they are in a stack (defined in the manual) you get an additional 14 points. If two totes are stacked and one tote is not, you only get 6 points. |
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there are several ways to handle auton scoring as I read the rules now.
32 point method (A): -4 points awarded for all active robots in auto zone (Robot Set) (4pts.) -6 points awarded for 3 totes in auto zone (Tote set) (6pts.) -14 additional points awarded for stack (Stacked Tote Set) (14pts.) -8 points awarded for any three recycling containers in auto zone (Container set) (8pts.) Total: 32pts. Max --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 32 point method (B): -4 points awarded for all active robots in auto zone (Robot Set) (4pts.) -6 points awarded for 3 totes in auto zone (Tote set) (0pts.) (included in Stacked Tote Set) -14 additional points awarded for stack (Stacked Tote Set) (20pts.) -8 points awarded for any three recycling containers in auto zone (Container set) (8pts.) Total: 32pts. Max --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 38 point method: -4 points awarded for all active robots in auto zone (Robot Set) (4pts.) -6 points awarded for 3 totes in auto zone (Tote set) (6pts.) -14 additional points awarded for stack (Stacked Tote Set) (20pts.) -8 points awarded for any three recycling containers in auto zone (Container set) (8pts.) Total: 38pts. Max - it is still up to debate if you can get a Stacked tote set and a regular tote set scored at the same time. |
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I agree with your max, but you only get points for sets, so you need all yellow totes in the auto zone to get 6 points, you cannot get 4 points for only having two of them. The recycling containers only needs one to have a set.
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My problem with the golden totes in auton being worth only 2... Grey bins in Teleop are worth only 2. Arent auton scores always worth more?
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I don't think you can get Teleop points in auto. What do the rest of yall think? |
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Grey totes aside, lets look at the gold ones. lets have 0 be a golden tote and ___ be the ground. Ill give you the situations I see happening.
___0___0___0____ =? .....0 ___0________0___=? ...0 ...0 __0________=? How many points would each situation be worth in auton? Would it be 6 (2 points each) on the first, or 18 points, 6 per. Would the second be worth 20+6 (one stack one alone)? 20+2(this would be if scoring totes alone in auton are only worth 2)? Would the last only be worth 20? It seems like quite a feat to get 3 stacked in auton. Im sure we will see it, but it seems insignificant if you look at what you can score after Teleop starts. |
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I couldn't find anything in the rules (haven't read entire thing tho), can we open the totes and stack them inside of each other?
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Please read page 19 of the manual. |
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They are intended to be closed- THey are zip tied shut. |
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I originally thought the coopertition points were a red herring since they won't really affect ranking since averages are calculated to 2 decimal places but the high value of the stacked totes probably means each alliance should try to put two yellow totes on the step once it is clear of grey ones. Assumes another robot will complete the stack of 4.
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You're forgetting a situation:
......0 ___0 0________ = ? (I believe this is a void configuration resulting in 6pts, however there was not an example given to this situation in the manual.) anyways here is how I see the scoring of the yellow totes alone in their respective situations (assuming they are compleatly contained by the auto zones): ___0___0___0____ = 6pts .....0 ___0________0___= 6pts ...0 ...0 __0________= 20pts (possibly 26, depending is a stack and a set can simultaneously exist) |
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A similar situation is called out at the bottom of page 19. They are not in a single column and do not meet point A of being a stack.
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Okay, so that is considered a TOTE SET, which is defined by 3 golden totes in the auton area. The CONTAINER SET is the tall recycling bins, NOT the totes. 3 of the large bins in the scoring area count for 8 points. A STACKED TOTE SET are all 3 golden totes stacked on top of each other as per figure 3-1 , or 3.1.2.1 in the rules. It appears, though I may be wrong, that 2 totes or two bins dont count? |
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A container set on the other hand does need to have three present in the auto zone in order to be counted (definition of container set, rule 3.1.2.1) |
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The rule you quoted is right, but if you look closely they use the word any, not all when defining the container set.
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I wish to confirm I am interpreting the following rule correctly:
LITTER Scored in/on RECYCLING CONTAINER 6 per RECYCLING CONTAINER I am understanding that we are allowed to have various Recycling Containers one next to another and have one piece of Litter lying on top of these Recycling Containers instead of inserting one Litter per Recycling Container. |
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Situation 1 would be worth 6 points, a Tote Set. Situation 2 would be worth 6 points as well, still a Tote set because you need all 3 totes to be stacked to be a Stacked Tote set and worth 20 points. Situation 3 would be worth 20 points, as it is a Stacked Tote set. This requires all of the totes to be stacked in a single stack. See section 3.1.2.1 |
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Is the recycle bin 4 times the lowest level it occupies or 4 times tge number of levels it occupies? We're having a heated argument about this...
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4 times the lowest level it occupies is how i'm interpreting the rule
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Do you get points for having more than one pool noodle on a trash can and stacking that can?
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"When a scored RECYCLING CONTAINER fully supports a LITTER, that LITTER is considered scored in or on that RECYCLING CONTAINER, as demonstrated in Figure 3-5 Parts A and B. A maximum of one (1) LITTER will be scored per RECYCLING CONTAINER." |
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How about some "extra credit" coopetition?
I'll dump all my litter on my side if you dump all your litter on your side. Extra 4pts per litter for everybody! (I'm thinking we may need team colored litter to fix this loophole) |
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Just dump the noodles through the player station. "The Noodle Agreement" as mentioned in another thread.
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And you didn't specify that you wanted the robot to do it, just that you wanted it to happen. If the robot isn't able to do it, figure out a legal way to do it without the robot. |
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Quick little scoring mockup for anybody to use in their brainstorming sessions, correct as far as my understanding of the rules goes (Feel free to correct me if it's wrong)
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Yeah, I was just looking for a loophole that the robot could score the litter on the opponents side of the field. But the rules have that option pretty well sewn up. The only way ti get your litter onto the opponent's side is via human player throwing, or a tower unintentionally falling over and introducing a piece of litter (not entirely sure about the second one).
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Yes, any above the 6th dont count. WIll edit in rule in a minute
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Okay, so theoretical max scoring.
THEORETICAL MAXIMUM COMPETITIVE SCORE Autonomous Robot Set: 4 Tote Set: 6 Container Set: 8 Stacked Tote Set: 20 Total: 38 Points (Assuming Tote/Container/Stacked Tote can be simultaneously earned) Teleoperated 60 Gray Totes: 120 7 Recycling Bins Level 6: 168 7 Litter in Bins: 42 13 Unprocessed Litter: 52 Coopertition Stack: 40 Total: 422 Combined Total: 460 THEORETICAL LET'S BE NICE EVERYBODY SHARES SCORE Autonomous Robot Set: 4 Tote Set: 6 Container Set: 8 Stacked Tote Set: 20 Total: 38 Points (Assuming Tote/Container/Stacked Tote can be simultaneously earned) Teleoperated 54 Gray Totes: 108 5 Recycling Bins Level 6: 120 5 Litter in Bins: 30 5 Unprocessed Litter: 20 Coopertition Stack: 40 Total: 318 Combined Total: 356 |
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Also, I think you can get 70 grey tubs: 30 + 28 + 12 This raises the theoretical max to 32 + 140 + 168 + 42 + 52 + 40, or 474. Edit: The tote set definition was already pointed out. |
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I know you don't get points until the end of the match, but what prevents you from moving them. |
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Math is hard guys.
THEORETICAL MAXIMUM TOTALLY FIXED COMPETITIVE SCORE Autonomous Robot Set: 4 Container Set: 8 Stacked Tote Set: 20 Total: 32 Points Teleoperated 70 Gray Totes: 140 7 Recycling Bins Level 6: 168 7 Litter in Bins: 42 13 Unprocessed Litter: 52 Coopertition Stack: 40 Total: 442 Combined Total: 474 THEORETICAL LET'S BE NICE EVERYBODY SHARES TOTALLY FIXED SCORE Autonomous Robot Set: 4 Container Set: 8 Stacked Tote Set: 20 Total: 32 Points Teleoperated 64 Gray Totes: 128 5 Recycling Bins Level 6: 120 5 Litter in Bins: 30 5 Unprocessed Litter: 20 Coopertition Stack: 40 Total: 338 Combined Total: 370 |
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*I'm waiting for someone to forget the second t in totes so we start talking about yellow or gray toes. |
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64 totes on the "everybody wins" number so I'll fix that. |
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the game animation shows robot moving grey tote in auton.
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If your robot is in the auto zone and is holding a yellow tote, such that the tote is within the boundaries of the auto zone (extended vertically) but not touching the carpet (supported by the robot) at the end of autonomous, does the tote count toward a tote set ( if two other totes are in the auto zone, do you get 6 points)?
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now has anyone thought of this don't even worry about the three cans and three totes in the staging zone instead grab all 4 (or at least 2) cans in the middle of the field bring them into the auto zone in autonomous this give you the auto can point of 8 and gets you all the recycling bins on your side of the field for your use.
very plausible as well knowing you can extend infinetly outwards, In more then one direction making grabbing 2 cans at a time possible. and because you can start right up against the land fill zone |
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So I've seen a few opinions on this, are you only allowed to score one container set in auto or can you grab three from the middle theoretically score two container sets?
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gray area to me but i would say no you can't seems like only one container set can be scored but with any containers on the field |
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Can someone please check my math? By my calculations: (WITHOUT "TNA")
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294 points from 7 "Full Stacks" (7 RC + 42 GT + 6 L) ...A full stack being 42 points from 1 RC + 6 GT + 1 L per stack 56 points from 28 GT left over 12 points from 3 L on the other side 362 points always (and 402 during qualifications from 40 co-op points) |
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Can you move the recycle bin to the human player station and insert the noodle that way?
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I was thinking the same thing. I haven't seen any rules against it.
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perfectly legal and most likely will be the common thing to do
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Our team also found this idea attractive(Loading the litter in the Recycling container through the HP station). The only tough part would be to make sure the Litter could get onto the Recycling container without falling off through the chute. This strategy could eliminate the need to pickup litters off the ground although a backup ability would be nice.
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This is what I got for max score: 508. Where did I go wrong? It seems like everyone else got different totals. Let me know, I want to know my mistakes.
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and the 20 points for a stacked set in auto would be if you got all 3 of the yellow totes stacked in the zone. The auto points are all really based on an all or nothing idea, which is a little annoying bc you either have to rely on your alliance partners to have a certain extent of skills or you have to do everything yourself. |
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Each team only has access to seven of these totes, not eight. This also changes the unprocessed litter score. The max unprocessed litter is now 13, since other litter will be used in the first seven stacks. Awesome pic and nice charts, by the way. Edit: Under total you have "7 (all) used". You have the numbers right, just accidentally went to Stack 8 on the chart above it. |
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Edit: I lied, I am counting 4 extra points it seems. That brings it down to 504 |
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42 * 7 + 4 * 12 + 8 = 350 350 + 32 + 40 + 52 = 474 350 for the stacks, 32 for auton, 40 for 4 yellow tubs on step and 52 for 13 unprocessed litter. |
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[IMAGE REMOVED] EDIT: Youre right. I put 12 points for the stack of 4, not 8. Late night isn't usually for accuracy. Actual picture: ![]() |
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I believe it is possible to score more than one container set in autonomous. There are four containers on the step, and a container set is three containers. Take three from the step to make another set in addition to the three you start with.
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The thing is that with the bin (and no noodle), it effectively makes each gray tote worth 6 points. It doesn't really matter how high the individual stacks are. It matters how many bins you put on the stacks. So if you get all 7 bins you can get on as tall stacks as you can get and still get all 7 bins on, you get a really high score, but that is highly improbable if not impossible. My thoughts are stacks of 2 - 3 totes and a recycle bin (with or without the noodle, your choice, your robot) will maximize efficiency and eventually points. If you have 4 stacks of 2 totes and a recycle bin, you get 12 points per stack, or 48 points (not including the noodle), which is a feasible amount within the time limit. If you have a stack of 4 totes and a recycle bin, you might get two complete stacks in, but the added challenge and pressure of having taller stacks means more mistakes can be made and more time can be lost. If you have two stacks of 4 totes, and only one bin on one stack, you get 32 points, significantly less than the smaller, easier stacks with bins on them.
And those are my two cents. |
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One thing I don't see anyone talking about that will be a huge advantage is knocking over those bins on the step to your side of the field. I think it'd be smart to dedicate auto to just getting all 4 bins on to your side, especially in finals, think about how an alliance would deal with only having 3 bins versus 7?
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Auto:
Stacked Tote Set = 20 points Container Set = 8 points Robot Set = 4 points Maximum Autonomous points = 32 points Teleop Totes: Alliance Station = 30 totes Landfill = 28 totes Step = 12 totes Maximum amount of totes = 70 totes Maximum tote points (2 points each) = 140 points Teleop Containers: Staging Area = 3 containers Step = 4 containers Maximum amount of containers = 7 containers Maximum container points (4 points each with level 6 multiplier) =168 points Teleop Litter: Litter = 20 total (10 for each alliance) 7 Litter in container (6 points each) = 42 points 13 Litter as unprocessed (4 points each) = 52 points Maximum litter points = 94 points Teleop Coopertition: Coopertition Stack = 40 points Teleop Total: Totes = 140 points Containers = 168 points Litter = 94 points Coopertition = 40 points Total Teleop Points = 442 points Total Auto Points = 32 points Total Points = 474 points |
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The only way the 6 tote rule effect is if there is a container on top of it and its and it can only multiply up to 6 totes. |
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Thats 32 for robot set, container set, tote stack in auton, 350 for the 12 stacks in teleop, 40 for coop stack, 12 for your alliances excess litter thrown past the apposing alliances landfill zone, and 10 for the apposing alliances litter in your own alliances landfill zone. |
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