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-   -   2015 Recycle Rush Scoring (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131919)

216Robochick288 03-01-2015 11:36

2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Alright ladies and gents, now the fun part. What is the max score that each side of the fields can come up with? Highest auton score? What will be the highest stack of the year? What scores do you expect from weeks 1 and 2 all the way to champs?


(Im looking at rules and crunching numbers as I post)

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 11:44

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
I'm going through this too, uggh. Ill post my findings as soon as I can manage.

216Robochick288 03-01-2015 11:48

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Im trying to figure out the wording on the auton. Can you move the grey bins in auton? I havnt found a rule about it, I dont think it was mentioned. Does the 20 stacked bin mean if you had 3 on the scoring spot, 2 stacked one not you would have 2x20 plus 1x6?


EDIT: Im looking but havnt found anything about it yet

ATannahill 03-01-2015 11:55

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 (Post 1419667)
Im trying to figure out the wording on the auton. Can you move the grey bins in auton? I havnt found a rule about it, I dont think it was mentioned. Does the 20 stacked bin mean if you had 3 on the scoring spot, 2 stacked one not you would have 2x20 plus 1x6?


EDIT: Im looking but havnt found anything about it yet

I do not believe there is a use for gray totes in autonomous.

The three yellow totes earn 6 points if they are all in the auto zone. They earn an additional 14 points if they are stacked.

216Robochick288 03-01-2015 12:09

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
There are 3 per side.... So if there were 3 seperate stacks it would be 6 points. 3 stacked would be 20? what about 2 stacked and one not?

Ether 03-01-2015 12:10

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 (Post 1419667)
Can you move the grey bins in auton?

According to the game reveal video at 1:25 you can move them in auton.



ATannahill 03-01-2015 12:12

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
There are three yellow totes per side.

If they are all in the autonomous zone you get 6 points.

If they are in a stack (defined in the manual) you get an additional 14 points.

If two totes are stacked and one tote is not, you only get 6 points.

Jacob Bendicksen 03-01-2015 12:13

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ether (Post 1419690)
According to the game reveal video at 1:25 you can move them in auton.



Agreed. It's legal to move them, but you don't get any auto-specific points. If you want to start stacking, though, you're welcome to.

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 12:13

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
there are several ways to handle auton scoring as I read the rules now.

32 point method (A):
-4 points awarded for all active robots in auto zone (Robot Set) (4pts.)
-6 points awarded for 3 totes in auto zone (Tote set) (6pts.)
-14 additional points awarded for stack (Stacked Tote Set) (14pts.)
-8 points awarded for any three recycling containers in auto zone (Container set) (8pts.)

Total: 32pts. Max
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
32 point method (B):
-4 points awarded for all active robots in auto zone (Robot Set) (4pts.)
-6 points awarded for 3 totes in auto zone (Tote set) (0pts.) (included in Stacked Tote Set)
-14 additional points awarded for stack (Stacked Tote Set) (20pts.)
-8 points awarded for any three recycling containers in auto zone (Container set) (8pts.)

Total: 32pts. Max
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
38 point method:
-4 points awarded for all active robots in auto zone (Robot Set) (4pts.)
-6 points awarded for 3 totes in auto zone (Tote set) (6pts.)
-14 additional points awarded for stack (Stacked Tote Set) (20pts.)
-8 points awarded for any three recycling containers in auto zone (Container set) (8pts.)

Total: 38pts. Max
- it is still up to debate if you can get a Stacked tote set and a regular tote set scored at the same time.

ATannahill 03-01-2015 12:15

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
I agree with your max, but you only get points for sets, so you need all yellow totes in the auto zone to get 6 points, you cannot get 4 points for only having two of them. The recycling containers only needs one to have a set.

216Robochick288 03-01-2015 12:15

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
My problem with the golden totes in auton being worth only 2... Grey bins in Teleop are worth only 2. Arent auton scores always worth more?

vps 03-01-2015 12:17

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 (Post 1419699)
My problem with the golden totes in auton being worth only 2... Grey bins in Teleop are worth only 2. Arent auton scores always worth more?


I don't think you can get Teleop points in auto. What do the rest of yall think?

Ether 03-01-2015 12:18

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jacob Bendicksen (Post 1419694)
Agreed. It's legal to move them, but you don't get any auto-specific points. If you want to start stacking, though, you're welcome to.

Once you create a "hole" in your landfill zone, you can start taking totes from the center step. Not sure if that will be advantageous.



ATannahill 03-01-2015 12:19

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vps (Post 1419701)
I don't think you can get Teleop points in auto. What do the rest of yall think?

Points for gray totes are rewarded at the end of the match.

216Robochick288 03-01-2015 12:32

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Grey totes aside, lets look at the gold ones. lets have 0 be a golden tote and ___ be the ground. Ill give you the situations I see happening.



___0___0___0____ =?


.....0
___0________0___=?


...0
...0
__0________=?

How many points would each situation be worth in auton? Would it be 6 (2 points each) on the first, or 18 points, 6 per.

Would the second be worth 20+6 (one stack one alone)? 20+2(this would be if scoring totes alone in auton are only worth 2)?

Would the last only be worth 20? It seems like quite a feat to get 3 stacked in auton. Im sure we will see it, but it seems insignificant if you look at what you can score after Teleop starts.

BryceKarlins 03-01-2015 12:37

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
I couldn't find anything in the rules (haven't read entire thing tho), can we open the totes and stack them inside of each other?

cgmv123 03-01-2015 12:39

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BryceKarlins (Post 1419724)
I couldn't find anything in the rules (haven't read entire thing tho), can we open the totes and stack them inside of each other?

G16 Blue Box, Item C.

ATannahill 03-01-2015 12:40

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 (Post 1419715)
Grey totes aside, lets look at the gold ones. lets have 0 be a golden tote and ___ be the ground. Ill give you the situations I see happening.



___0___0___0____ =?


.....0
___0________0___=?


...0
...0
__0________=?

How many points would each situation be worth in auton? Would it be 6 (2 points each) on the first, or 18 points, 6 per.

Would the second be worth 20+6 (one stack one alone)? 20+2(this would be if scoring totes alone in auton are only worth 2)?

Would the last only be worth 20? It seems like quite a feat to get 3 stacked in auton. Im sure we will see it, but it seems insignificant if you look at what you can score after Teleop starts.

Assuming this is in the auto zone, they would be worth 6, 6, 20.

Please read page 19 of the manual.

216Robochick288 03-01-2015 12:40

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BryceKarlins (Post 1419724)
I couldn't find anything in the rules (haven't read entire thing tho), can we open the totes and stack them inside of each other?


They are intended to be closed- THey are zip tied shut.

rjmah 03-01-2015 12:42

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
I originally thought the coopertition points were a red herring since they won't really affect ranking since averages are calculated to 2 decimal places but the high value of the stacked totes probably means each alliance should try to put two yellow totes on the step once it is clear of grey ones. Assumes another robot will complete the stack of 4.

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 12:43

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
You're forgetting a situation:

......0
___0 0________ = ? (I believe this is a void configuration resulting in 6pts,
however there was not an example given to this
situation in the manual.)

anyways here is how I see the scoring of the yellow totes alone in their respective situations (assuming they are compleatly contained by the auto zones):


___0___0___0____ = 6pts


.....0
___0________0___= 6pts


...0
...0
__0________= 20pts (possibly 26, depending is a stack and a set can
simultaneously exist)

ATannahill 03-01-2015 12:50

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
A similar situation is called out at the bottom of page 19. They are not in a single column and do not meet point A of being a stack.

216Robochick288 03-01-2015 12:59

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyehawk (Post 1419732)
You're forgetting a situation:

......0
___0 0________ = ? (I believe this is a void configuration resulting in 6pts,
however there was not an example given to this
situation in the manual.)


Okay, so that is considered a TOTE SET, which is defined by 3 golden totes in the auton area.

The CONTAINER SET is the tall recycling bins, NOT the totes. 3 of the large bins in the scoring area count for 8 points.

A STACKED TOTE SET are all 3 golden totes stacked on top of each other as per figure 3-1 , or 3.1.2.1 in the rules.

It appears, though I may be wrong, that 2 totes or two bins dont count?

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 13:06

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1419698)
I agree with your max, but you only get points for sets, so you need all yellow totes in the auto zone to get 6 points, you cannot get 4 points for only having two of them. The recycling containers only needs one to have a set.

I was inferring that all the yellow totes available at the start of the match need to be fully constrained by the auto zone in order to be considered a set.

A container set on the other hand does need to have three present in the auto zone in order to be counted (definition of container set, rule 3.1.2.1)

ATannahill 03-01-2015 13:09

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
The rule you quoted is right, but if you look closely they use the word any, not all when defining the container set.

normaldude8825 03-01-2015 13:16

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
I wish to confirm I am interpreting the following rule correctly:
LITTER Scored in/on RECYCLING CONTAINER 6 per RECYCLING CONTAINER

I am understanding that we are allowed to have various Recycling Containers one next to another and have one piece of Litter lying on top of these Recycling Containers instead of inserting one Litter per Recycling Container.

BenBraun3090 03-01-2015 13:21

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 (Post 1419715)
Grey totes aside, lets look at the gold ones. lets have 0 be a golden tote and ___ be the ground. Ill give you the situations I see happening.



___0___0___0____ =?


.....0
___0________0___=?


...0
...0
__0________=?

How many points would each situation be worth in auton? Would it be 6 (2 points each) on the first, or 18 points, 6 per.

Would the second be worth 20+6 (one stack one alone)? 20+2(this would be if scoring totes alone in auton are only worth 2)?

Would the last only be worth 20? It seems like quite a feat to get 3 stacked in auton. Im sure we will see it, but it seems insignificant if you look at what you can score after Teleop starts.

I will assume that all the totes are completely within the scoring zone.
Situation 1 would be worth 6 points, a Tote Set.
Situation 2 would be worth 6 points as well, still a Tote set because you need all 3 totes to be stacked to be a Stacked Tote set and worth 20 points.
Situation 3 would be worth 20 points, as it is a Stacked Tote set. This requires all of the totes to be stacked in a single stack.
See section 3.1.2.1

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 13:22

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 (Post 1419749)
It appears, though I may be wrong, that 2 totes or two bins dont count?

That is correct, the points are awarded on a per set basis, not per tote.

ATannahill 03-01-2015 13:22

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by normaldude8825 (Post 1419769)
I wish to confirm I am interpreting the following rule correctly:
LITTER Scored in/on RECYCLING CONTAINER 6 per RECYCLING CONTAINER

I am understanding that we are allowed to have various Recycling Containers one next to another and have one piece of Litter lying on top of these Recycling Containers instead of inserting one Litter per Recycling Container.

You may score the litter on, not in the recycling container. The weight of the litter must be supported by a scored container.

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 13:26

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1419762)
The rule you quoted is right, but if you look closely they use the word any, not all when defining the container set.

The way I interpret it: there are a total of 10 recycling containers on the field: 3 in each alliance zone, 4 on the STEP. If any of those 3 are completely contained by the team's auto zone a container set is awarded.

MrTechCenter 03-01-2015 13:42

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Is the recycle bin 4 times the lowest level it occupies or 4 times tge number of levels it occupies? We're having a heated argument about this...

BenBraun3090 03-01-2015 13:43

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
4 times the lowest level it occupies is how i'm interpreting the rule

ATannahill 03-01-2015 13:43

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTechCenter (Post 1419795)
Is the recycle bin 4 times the lowest level it occupies or 4 times tge number of levels it occupies? We're having a heated argument about this...

Lowest. Page 21.

puneeth.meruva 03-01-2015 13:48

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Do you get points for having more than one pool noodle on a trash can and stacking that can?

GaryVoshol 03-01-2015 13:49

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by puneeth.meruva (Post 1419809)
Do you get points for having more than one pool noodle on a trash can and stacking that can?

No, it says max of 1 per recycle bin. I'll leave it as an exercise for the user to find the exact quote.

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 13:59

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol (Post 1419810)
No, it says max of 1 per recycle bin. I'll leave it as an exercise for the user to find the exact quote.

3.1.2.3 subsection "Litter"

Anstrilator 03-01-2015 14:04

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol (Post 1419810)
No, it says max of 1 per recycle bin. I'll leave it as an exercise for the user to find the exact quote.

From page 22 of the manual:

"When a scored RECYCLING CONTAINER fully supports a LITTER, that LITTER is considered scored in or on that RECYCLING
CONTAINER, as demonstrated in Figure 3-5 Parts A and B. A maximum of one (1) LITTER will be scored per RECYCLING
CONTAINER."

pathew100 03-01-2015 15:01

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
How about some "extra credit" coopetition?

I'll dump all my litter on my side if you dump all your litter on your side. Extra 4pts per litter for everybody!

(I'm thinking we may need team colored litter to fix this loophole)

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 15:19

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pathew100 (Post 1419882)
How about some "extra credit" coopetition?

I'll dump all my litter on my side if you dump all your litter on your side. Extra 4pts per litter for everybody!

(I'm thinking we may need team colored litter to fix this loophole)

This is not allowed, under rule G24, believe me I brainstormed ways to throw all my teams litter onto the opposing side of the field.

pntbll1313 03-01-2015 15:32

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyehawk (Post 1419897)
This is not allowed, under rule G24, believe me I brainstormed ways to throw all my teams litter onto the opposing side of the field.

That's not what pathew100 was saying. What was said is that if each team agrees to just dump all 10 of their pieces of litter on their own side of the field, each alliance gets 40 points.

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 15:40

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Just dump the noodles through the player station. "The Noodle Agreement" as mentioned in another thread.

EricH 03-01-2015 15:59

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyehawk (Post 1419897)
This is not allowed, under rule G24, believe me I brainstormed ways to throw all my teams litter onto the opposing side of the field.

You didn't think hard enough. Try G33B. Not sayin' whether it is possible or not.

Skyehawk 03-01-2015 16:52

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1419957)
You didn't think hard enough. Try G33B. Not sayin' whether it is possible or not.

This is only via human interaction though, I want the robot to do it.

EricH 03-01-2015 17:04

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyehawk (Post 1420018)
This is only via human interaction though, I want the robot to do it.

At the cost of a foul, it isn't worth it to do it with the robot.

And you didn't specify that you wanted the robot to do it, just that you wanted it to happen. If the robot isn't able to do it, figure out a legal way to do it without the robot.

p00rleno 03-01-2015 17:11

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quick little scoring mockup for anybody to use in their brainstorming sessions, correct as far as my understanding of the rules goes (Feel free to correct me if it's wrong)


Skyehawk 03-01-2015 17:13

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Yeah, I was just looking for a loophole that the robot could score the litter on the opponents side of the field. But the rules have that option pretty well sewn up. The only way ti get your litter onto the opponent's side is via human player throwing, or a tower unintentionally falling over and introducing a piece of litter (not entirely sure about the second one).

hGil 03-01-2015 17:29

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by p00rleno (Post 1420044)
Quick little scoring mockup for anybody to use in their brainstorming sessions, correct as far as my understanding of the rules goes (Feel free to correct me if it's wrong)


Thanks for the image. Just checking, is there a limit on the height of a tote stack? Depending on how you build your robot it would be possible to stack above the 6th tote, though in any case placing a recycling bin above would be far more effective.

p00rleno 03-01-2015 17:36

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Yes, any above the 6th dont count. WIll edit in rule in a minute



Quote:

3.1.2.3 TELEOP
During TELEOP, points are awarded for scored TOTES, RECYCLING CONTAINERS, and LITTER.
TOTES
A Gray TOTE is scored if it is fully supported by a SCORING PLATFORM and no portion of the TOTE extends above the top of the
BACKSTOP.
7th will be above BACKSTOP

KevinG 03-01-2015 18:09

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Okay, so theoretical max scoring.

THEORETICAL MAXIMUM COMPETITIVE SCORE
Autonomous
Robot Set: 4
Tote Set: 6
Container Set: 8
Stacked Tote Set: 20

Total: 38 Points (Assuming Tote/Container/Stacked Tote can be simultaneously earned)

Teleoperated
60 Gray Totes: 120
7 Recycling Bins Level 6: 168
7 Litter in Bins: 42
13 Unprocessed Litter: 52
Coopertition Stack: 40

Total: 422

Combined Total: 460

THEORETICAL LET'S BE NICE EVERYBODY SHARES SCORE
Autonomous
Robot Set: 4
Tote Set: 6
Container Set: 8
Stacked Tote Set: 20

Total: 38 Points (Assuming Tote/Container/Stacked Tote can be simultaneously earned)

Teleoperated
54 Gray Totes: 108
5 Recycling Bins Level 6: 120
5 Litter in Bins: 30
5 Unprocessed Litter: 20
Coopertition Stack: 40

Total: 318

Combined Total: 356

forbes 03-01-2015 18:24

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KGenson (Post 1420108)
Autonomous
Robot Set: 4
Tote Set: 6
Container Set: 8
Stacked Tote Set: 20

Total: 38 Points (Assuming Tote/Container/Stacked Tote can be simultaneously earned)

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3.1.2.1
A TOTE SET exists if all three (3) Yellow TOTES from an ALLIANCE are fully contained by the AUTO ZONE, but do not meet the
requirements of a STACKED TOTE SET, at the end of AUTO.

So the max auto would be 32, I believe.

magnets 03-01-2015 18:26

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by forbes (Post 1420122)
So the max auto would be 32, I believe.

But, can you get two container sets in auto? (one from center, one from ones on your side)...

forbes 03-01-2015 18:36

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by magnets (Post 1420124)
But, can you get two container sets in auto? (one from center, one from ones on your side)...

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3.1.2.1
A CONTAINER SET exists if any three (3) RECYCLING CONTAINERS are fully contained by the AUTO ZONE at the end of AUTO.

I interpret that as it only being possible for an alliance to get a single container set.

Vanderlavanski 03-01-2015 18:42

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KGenson (Post 1420108)
Okay, so theoretical max scoring.

THEORETICAL MAXIMUM COMPETITIVE SCORE
Autonomous
Robot Set: 4
Tote Set: 6
Container Set: 8
Stacked Tote Set: 20

Total: 38 Points (Assuming Tote/Container/Stacked Tote can be simultaneously earned)

Teleoperated
60 Gray Totes: 120
7 Recycling Bins Level 6: 168
7 Litter in Bins: 42
13 Unprocessed Litter: 52
Coopertition Stack: 40

Total: 422

Combined Total: 460

I do not believe you can score both a tote set and a stacked tote set. The requirements for the tote set include not meeting the requirement for the stacked tote set (3.1.2.1 under TOTE SET definition).

Also, I think you can get 70 grey tubs: 30 + 28 + 12
This raises the theoretical max to 32 + 140 + 168 + 42 + 52 + 40, or 474.

Edit: The tote set definition was already pointed out.

RockerRobot 03-01-2015 18:46

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 (Post 1419667)
Im trying to figure out the wording on the auton. Can you move the grey bins in auton? I havnt found a rule about it, I dont think it was mentioned. Does the 20 stacked bin mean if you had 3 on the scoring spot, 2 stacked one not you would have 2x20 plus 1x6?


EDIT: Im looking but havnt found anything about it yet

You can't move the gray totes in Auton, only the yellow totes and trash cans

ATannahill 03-01-2015 18:48

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RockerRobot (Post 1420147)
You can't move the gray totes in Auton, only the yellow totes and trash cans

Where is that in the rules?

I know you don't get points until the end of the match, but what prevents you from moving them.

KevinG 03-01-2015 19:09

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Math is hard guys.

THEORETICAL MAXIMUM TOTALLY FIXED COMPETITIVE SCORE
Autonomous
Robot Set: 4
Container Set: 8
Stacked Tote Set: 20

Total: 32 Points

Teleoperated
70 Gray Totes: 140
7 Recycling Bins Level 6: 168
7 Litter in Bins: 42
13 Unprocessed Litter: 52
Coopertition Stack: 40

Total: 442

Combined Total: 474

THEORETICAL LET'S BE NICE EVERYBODY SHARES TOTALLY FIXED SCORE
Autonomous
Robot Set: 4
Container Set: 8
Stacked Tote Set: 20

Total: 32 Points

Teleoperated
64 Gray Totes: 128
5 Recycling Bins Level 6: 120
5 Litter in Bins: 30
5 Unprocessed Litter: 20
Coopertition Stack: 40

Total: 338

Combined Total: 370

ATannahill 03-01-2015 19:12

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KGenson (Post 1420172)
Math is hard guys.

THEORETICAL MAXIMUM TOTALLY FIXED COMPETITIVE SCORE
Autonomous
Robot Set: 4
Container Set: 8
Stacked Tote Set: 20

Total: 32 Points

Teleoperated
70 Gray Totes: 140
7 Recycling Bins Level 6: 168
7 Litter in Bins: 42
13 Unprocessed Litter: 52
Coopertition Stack: 40

Total: 442

Combined Total: 474

THEORETICAL LET'S BE NICE EVERYBODY SHARES TOTALLY FIXED SCORE
Autonomous
Robot Set: 4
Container Set: 8
Stacked Tote Set: 20

Total: 32 Points

Teleoperated
56 Gray Totes: 112
5 Recycling Bins Level 6: 120
5 Litter in Bins: 30
5 Unprocessed Litter: 20
Coopertition Stack: 40

Total: 322

Combined Total: 354

I think you lost two gray totes somewhere.

*I'm waiting for someone to forget the second t in totes so we start talking about yellow or gray toes.

KevinG 03-01-2015 19:52

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1420175)
I think you lost two gray totes somewhere.

*I'm waiting for someone to forget the second t in totes so we start talking about yellow or gray toes.

12 totes on the step, 28 totes in landfill, 30 totes in the alliance station. I don't have Excel open so no promises over here, but I believe 12+28+30 = 70.

64 totes on the "everybody wins" number so I'll fix that.

jajabinx124 03-01-2015 20:23

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RockerRobot (Post 1420147)
You can't move the gray totes in Auton, only the yellow totes and trash cans

Nothing in the rule book says you can't move gray totes in Auto, you can if you want to get started on stacking earlier(Correct me if I am wrong). I don't see a point in moving grey totes in auto, but you have the freedom to get started on stacking/placing early if you want to. The gray totes,if moved in auto and placed onto scoring zone in auto, will not be scored in Auto and if you do get them on the scoring zone in auto they will be scored in Teleop.

Tungrus 03-01-2015 20:28

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
the game animation shows robot moving grey tote in auton.

Ether 03-01-2015 20:36

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RockerRobot (Post 1420147)
You can't move the gray totes in Auton, only the yellow totes and trash cans

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...90#post1419690



MrTechCenter 03-01-2015 20:45

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jajabinx124 (Post 1420279)
Nothing in the rule book says you can't move gray totes in Auto, you can if you want to get started on stacking earlier(Correct me if I am wrong). I don't see a point in moving grey totes in auto, but you have the freedom to get started on stacking/placing early if you want to. The gray totes,if moved in auto and placed onto scoring zone in auto, will not be scored in Auto and if you do get them on the scoring zone in auto they will be scored in Teleop.

Well if you clear the grey totes in auto while one or both of your other alliance partners score in auton you can clear the path for your alliance to take the green bins from the center at the start of teleop.

jajabinx124 03-01-2015 20:48

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTechCenter (Post 1420322)
Well if you clear the grey totes in auto while one or both of your other alliance partners score in auton you can clear the path for your alliance to take the green bins from the center at the start of teleop.

Now that is a good strategy. Thus exposing you to more Recycling containers. That could be manageable in 15 seconds.

MrTechCenter 03-01-2015 20:49

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jajabinx124 (Post 1420326)
Now that is a good strategy. Thus exposing you to more Recycling containers. That could be manageable in 15 seconds.

And depending on your bot design, you might even be able to make it back to the auto zone for the 4 point bonus.

Zaque 03-01-2015 21:08

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by normaldude8825 (Post 1419769)
I wish to confirm I am interpreting the following rule correctly:
LITTER Scored in/on RECYCLING CONTAINER 6 per RECYCLING CONTAINER

I am understanding that we are allowed to have various Recycling Containers one next to another and have one piece of Litter lying on top of these Recycling Containers instead of inserting one Litter per Recycling Container.

The rule says the litter must be "fully supported" by a scored recycling container. If the litter is on more than one recycling container, it is not fully supported by any one container, and thus not worth any points.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rtfgnow (Post 1419777)
You may score the litter on, not in the recycling container. The weight of the litter must be supported by a scored container.

It sounds to me like you are trying to say that a litter in a recycling container is not fully supported by the container, and thus not scored. If this is what you meant to say, could you please point out that rule? If that is not what you meant, could you please clarify?

dipmeinaluminum 03-01-2015 21:44

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by p00rleno (Post 1420044)
Quick little scoring mockup for anybody to use in their brainstorming sessions, correct as far as my understanding of the rules goes (Feel free to correct me if it's wrong)


YOU'RE AWESOME!!!

Squillo 03-01-2015 21:45

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
If your robot is in the auto zone and is holding a yellow tote, such that the tote is within the boundaries of the auto zone (extended vertically) but not touching the carpet (supported by the robot) at the end of autonomous, does the tote count toward a tote set ( if two other totes are in the auto zone, do you get 6 points)?

Christopher149 03-01-2015 21:49

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Squillo (Post 1420406)
If your robot is in the auto zone and is holding a yellow tote, such that the tote is within the boundaries of the auto zone (extended vertically) but not touching the carpet (supported by the robot) at the end of autonomous, does the tote count toward a tote set ( if two other totes are in the auto zone, do you get 6 points)?

I want to say yes. The definition of STACKED TOTE SET requires it be touching the ground and not a robot. A TOTE SET is where "all three (3) Yellow TOTES from an ALLIANCE are fully contained by the AUTO ZONE, but do not meet the requirements of a STACKED TOTE SET, at the end of AUTO" (emphasis mine).

who716 03-01-2015 21:53

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
now has anyone thought of this don't even worry about the three cans and three totes in the staging zone instead grab all 4 (or at least 2) cans in the middle of the field bring them into the auto zone in autonomous this give you the auto can point of 8 and gets you all the recycling bins on your side of the field for your use.

very plausible as well knowing you can extend infinetly outwards, In more then one direction making grabbing 2 cans at a time possible. and because you can start right up against the land fill zone

Boe 03-01-2015 21:54

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
So I've seen a few opinions on this, are you only allowed to score one container set in auto or can you grab three from the middle theoretically score two container sets?

who716 03-01-2015 22:00

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Boe (Post 1420430)
So I've seen a few opinions on this, are you only allowed to score one container set in auto or can you grab three from the middle theoretically score two container sets?

A CONTAINER SET exists if any three (3) RECYCLING CONTAINERS are fully contained by the AUTO ZONE at the end of AUTO.

gray area to me but i would say no you can't seems like only one container set can be scored but with any containers on the field

CalTran 03-01-2015 22:13

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Can someone please check my math? By my calculations: (WITHOUT "TNA")
Quote:

Starting material:
GT=Grey Tote YT=Yellow Tote RC=Recycling Container L=Litter
12 GT on Step
28 GT Landfill
30 GT Alliance Station
3 YT Staging Zone
4 RC on Step
3 RC Staging Zone
10 L Alliance Station

Or total sum:
70 Grey Totes
7 Recycling Containers
10 Litter
3 Yellow Totes
A max Teleop Score would be achieved by the following:
294 points from 7 "Full Stacks" (7 RC + 42 GT + 6 L)
...A full stack being 42 points from 1 RC + 6 GT + 1 L per stack
56 points from 28 GT left over
12 points from 3 L on the other side
362 points always (and 402 during qualifications from 40 co-op points)

clinton 03-01-2015 22:48

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Can you move the recycle bin to the human player station and insert the noodle that way?

Tim Sharp 03-01-2015 22:52

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
I was thinking the same thing. I haven't seen any rules against it.

who716 03-01-2015 22:56

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
perfectly legal and most likely will be the common thing to do

CalTran 03-01-2015 22:58

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clinton (Post 1420535)
Can you move the recycle bin to the human player station and insert the noodle that way?

I have not seen a rule indicating a "scoring order" (IE tote has to be on platform before recycling container can be placed on tote, ditto for recycling container & noodle.). Further testing as to whether your HP can accurately and quickly get a pool noodle through a hole into the recycling container without breaking the plane of the field will be up to your team.

Christopher149 03-01-2015 22:59

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by clinton (Post 1420535)
Can you move the recycle bin to the human player station and insert the noodle that way?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Sharp (Post 1420547)
I was thinking the same thing. I haven't seen any rules against it.

I was also thinking that. So long as your hand does not enter the field, I have not identified a rule disallowing it.

jajabinx124 03-01-2015 23:07

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Our team also found this idea attractive(Loading the litter in the Recycling container through the HP station). The only tough part would be to make sure the Litter could get onto the Recycling container without falling off through the chute. This strategy could eliminate the need to pickup litters off the ground although a backup ability would be nice.

MrTechCenter 03-01-2015 23:08

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jajabinx124 (Post 1420578)
Our team also found this idea attractive(Loading the litter in the Recycling container through the HP station). The only tough part would be to make sure the Litter could get onto the Recycling container without falling off through the chute. This strategy could eliminate the need to pickup litters off the ground although a backup ability would be nice.

We did some testing with it today, and considering how much the pool noodles bend, it's not that difficult. And it's even easier if a robot is holding the can up off the ground.

fenster 04-01-2015 05:50

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
This is what I got for max score: 508. Where did I go wrong? It seems like everyone else got different totals. Let me know, I want to know my mistakes.


grainne 04-01-2015 09:56

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 216Robochick288 (Post 1419667)
Im trying to figure out the wording on the auton. Can you move the grey bins in auton? I havnt found a rule about it, I dont think it was mentioned. Does the 20 stacked bin mean if you had 3 on the scoring spot, 2 stacked one not you would have 2x20 plus 1x6?


EDIT: Im looking but havnt found anything about it yet

yes you can move the grey bins in auto, but it doesn't count towards auto points, it is just a head start on teleop things so it would only be really good I guess if you wanted to get that head start or if someone else on your alliance had the auto under control.

and the 20 points for a stacked set in auto would be if you got all 3 of the yellow totes stacked in the zone. The auto points are all really based on an all or nothing idea, which is a little annoying bc you either have to rely on your alliance partners to have a certain extent of skills or you have to do everything yourself.

Vanderlavanski 04-01-2015 10:07

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fenster (Post 1420823)
This is what I got for max score: 508. Where did I go wrong? It seems like everyone else got different totals. Let me know, I want to know my mistakes.

There are ten (10) RECYCLING CONTAINERS on the FIELD at the start of the MATCH.
Each team only has access to seven of these totes, not eight. This also changes the unprocessed litter score.

The max unprocessed litter is now 13, since other litter will be used in the first seven stacks.

Awesome pic and nice charts, by the way.

Edit: Under total you have "7 (all) used". You have the numbers right, just accidentally went to Stack 8 on the chart above it.

tindleroot 04-01-2015 11:16

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by MrTechCenter (Post 1420580)
We did some testing with it today, and considering how much the pool noodles bend, it's not that difficult. And it's even easier if a robot is holding the can up off the ground.

I think scoring litter through the HP station was FIRST's intent. It is so much simpler to do that than to have the robot pick up pool noodles, and I don't think FIRST expects teams to manipulate all 3 game pieces with their robot.

jajabinx124 04-01-2015 12:27

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tindleroot (Post 1420932)
I think scoring litter through the HP station was FIRST's intent. It is so much simpler to do that than to have the robot pick up pool noodles, and I don't think FIRST expects teams to manipulate all 3 game pieces with their robot.

Agreed. I can only imagine the difficulty of creating a universal mechanism for lifting up/stacking totes, containers, and litter.

fenster 04-01-2015 14:55

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanderlavanski (Post 1420896)
There are ten (10) RECYCLING CONTAINERS on the FIELD at the start of the MATCH.
Each team only has access to seven of these totes, not eight. This also changes the unprocessed litter score.

The max unprocessed litter is now 13, since other litter will be used in the first seven stacks.

Awesome pic and nice charts, by the way.

Edit: Under total you have "7 (all) used". You have the numbers right, just accidentally went to Stack 8 on the chart above it.

That 14 was just a typo. That mini chart on the bottom left still only counts 13 (52 points). Does that mean that 508 is the actual top score?

Edit: I lied, I am counting 4 extra points it seems. That brings it down to 504

Vanderlavanski 04-01-2015 15:08

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fenster (Post 1421111)
I am counting 4 extra points it seems. That brings it down to 504

You still have to subtract 30 points from adding one too many containers.

42 * 7 + 4 * 12 + 8 = 350
350 + 32 + 40 + 52 = 474

350 for the stacks, 32 for auton, 40 for 4 yellow tubs on step and 52 for 13 unprocessed litter.

fenster 04-01-2015 15:55

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vanderlavanski (Post 1421121)
You still have to subtract 30 points from adding one too many containers.

42 * 7 + 4 * 12 + 8 = 350
350 + 32 + 40 + 52 = 474

350 for the stacks, 32 for auton, 40 for 4 yellow tubs on step and 52 for 13 unprocessed litter.

Oh whoops! Didnt even see that. I still get a total of 478 after double checking everything, though. Heres my (hopefully final) result
[IMAGE REMOVED]

EDIT: Youre right. I put 12 points for the stack of 4, not 8. Late night isn't usually for accuracy. Actual picture:

Grim Tuesday 04-01-2015 16:48

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
I believe it is possible to score more than one container set in autonomous. There are four containers on the step, and a container set is three containers. Take three from the step to make another set in addition to the three you start with.

EricH 04-01-2015 17:06

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday (Post 1421196)
I believe it is possible to score more than one container set in autonomous. There are four containers on the step, and a container set is three containers. Take three from the step to make another set in addition to the three you start with.

You're reaching over how many totes to do that?

pimathbrainiac 04-01-2015 17:07

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
The thing is that with the bin (and no noodle), it effectively makes each gray tote worth 6 points. It doesn't really matter how high the individual stacks are. It matters how many bins you put on the stacks. So if you get all 7 bins you can get on as tall stacks as you can get and still get all 7 bins on, you get a really high score, but that is highly improbable if not impossible. My thoughts are stacks of 2 - 3 totes and a recycle bin (with or without the noodle, your choice, your robot) will maximize efficiency and eventually points. If you have 4 stacks of 2 totes and a recycle bin, you get 12 points per stack, or 48 points (not including the noodle), which is a feasible amount within the time limit. If you have a stack of 4 totes and a recycle bin, you might get two complete stacks in, but the added challenge and pressure of having taller stacks means more mistakes can be made and more time can be lost. If you have two stacks of 4 totes, and only one bin on one stack, you get 32 points, significantly less than the smaller, easier stacks with bins on them.

And those are my two cents.

Grim Tuesday 04-01-2015 17:24

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1421217)
You're reaching over how many totes to do that?

I thought we were talking about maximum possible not maximum feasible score! Plus, with no horizontal size constraints I don't think it's the least feasible thing out there...

FLM 04-01-2015 18:23

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fenster (Post 1421156)
Oh whoops! Didnt even see that. I still get a total of 478 after double checking everything, though. Heres my (hopefully final) result
[IMAGE REMOVED]

EDIT: Youre right. I put 12 points for the stack of 4, not 8. Late night isn't usually for accuracy. Actual picture:
[IMAGE REMOVED]

Good work! I also got this total.

RonAyyyyyyyy 05-01-2015 09:59

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
One thing I don't see anyone talking about that will be a huge advantage is knocking over those bins on the step to your side of the field. I think it'd be smart to dedicate auto to just getting all 4 bins on to your side, especially in finals, think about how an alliance would deal with only having 3 bins versus 7?

Brennen3828 05-01-2015 23:13

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Auto:
Stacked Tote Set = 20 points
Container Set = 8 points
Robot Set = 4 points

Maximum Autonomous points = 32 points

Teleop Totes:
Alliance Station = 30 totes
Landfill = 28 totes
Step = 12 totes

Maximum amount of totes = 70 totes
Maximum tote points (2 points each) = 140 points

Teleop Containers:
Staging Area = 3 containers
Step = 4 containers

Maximum amount of containers = 7 containers
Maximum container points (4 points each with level 6 multiplier) =168 points

Teleop Litter:
Litter = 20 total (10 for each alliance)
7 Litter in container (6 points each) = 42 points
13 Litter as unprocessed (4 points each) = 52 points

Maximum litter points = 94 points

Teleop Coopertition:
Coopertition Stack = 40 points

Teleop Total:
Totes = 140 points
Containers = 168 points
Litter = 94 points
Coopertition = 40 points

Total Teleop Points = 442 points
Total Auto Points = 32 points

Total Points = 474 points

Brennen3828 05-01-2015 23:27

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by p00rleno (Post 1420044)
Quick little scoring mockup for anybody to use in their brainstorming sessions, correct as far as my understanding of the rules goes (Feel free to correct me if it's wrong)


On the 5th stack, the one with seven totes and the top one has a value of zero points, I believe that also gets a value of 2 points also so it would be 14 points for that stack.

The only way the 6 tote rule effect is if there is a container on top of it and its and it can only multiply up to 6 totes.

EricH 05-01-2015 23:31

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brennen3828 (Post 1422447)
On the 5th stack, the one with seven totes and the top one has a value of zero points, I believe that also gets a value of 2 points also so it would be 14 points for that stack.

The only way the 6 tote rule effect is if there is a container on top of it and its and it can only multiply up to 6 totes.

::rtm:: Looks like your homework for tonight is to read the rules again. See below.
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3.1.2.3, Totes subsection, very first line.
A Gray TOTE is scored if it is fully supported by a SCORING PLATFORM and no portion of the TOTE extends above the top of the BACKSTOP.

(emphasis mine)

Brennen3828 05-01-2015 23:33

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1422453)
::rtm:: Looks like your homework for tonight is to read the rules again. See below. (emphasis mine)

Oh, I probably misread that. Thanks for telling me!

5048member 07-02-2015 19:19

Re: 2015 Recycle Rush Scoring
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fenster (Post 1421156)
Oh whoops! Didnt even see that. I still get a total of 478 after double checking everything, though. Heres my (hopefully final) result
[IMAGE REMOVED]

EDIT: Youre right. I put 12 points for the stack of 4, not 8. Late night isn't usually for accuracy. Actual picture:

since the whole colored noodle thing their 10 litter doesnt count as unprocessed on their side so the only way theirs can give you points is in your landfill so that makes the total 444.
Thats 32 for robot set, container set, tote stack in auton, 350 for the 12 stacks in teleop, 40 for coop stack, 12 for your alliances excess litter thrown past the apposing alliances landfill zone, and 10 for the apposing alliances litter in your own alliances landfill zone.


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