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-   -   Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131982)

Apachebot 03-01-2015 19:19
Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
My team (5241) is a sophomore team, and so we have come to face the reuse or not to reuse dilemma. I believe my team's robot should have bumpers, as we had several issues last year with the battery being disconnected by a hard bump (our old chassis was dented).
When I was searching these forums for information on reusing parts, there was one particular thread (link) which had several users comment on how the part could be reused because the bumper could possibly be considered not part of the robot. Now that the bumpers are optional and considered to be part of the robot's perimeter, would that mean that the bumpers could definitely NOT be reused?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

cgmv123 03-01-2015 19:22
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
There is a blue box on Page 30 of the manual that explains the role bumpers have on Recycle Rush robots.

Philip Arola 03-01-2015 19:22
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
It is illegal now, as it is now a part that should be bagged with the robot if it is used.

cgmv123 03-01-2015 19:25
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip Arola (Post 1420193)
It is illegal now, as it is now a part that should be bagged with the robot if it is used.
There is no requirement that bumpers be bagged with a ROBOT; although any bumpers not bagged now count toward the withholding allowance.

Chris_Ely 03-01-2015 19:25
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
See the last blue box of Section 4.1.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2015 Game Manual, Section 4.1
Veteran teams will notice that this Manual does not contain rules for bumpers. Bumpers for Recycle Rush robots are optional. Teams, however, should give
serious consideration as to whether or not they would like to add bumpers to their robots to provide protection from impact. Suggested bumper designs can
be found here.
Bumpers, if present, are considered part of the robot, and are included as part of the robot size constraints per R3 and weight limit per R4. This also means
that bumpers are not exempt from Fabrication Schedule requirements per Section 4.5: Fabrication Schedule.
Bumpers, if present, do not need to change color to match Alliance color. This means a single set of bumpers may stay affixed to the robot throughout the
event, if the team desires.
Bumpers are considered part of the robot.

p00rleno 03-01-2015 19:26
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
From R12's blue clarification box,

Quote:
Please note that this means that FABRICATED ITEMS from ROBOTS entered in previous FIRST competitions may not be used on ROBOTS in
the 2015 FRC (other than those allowed per R12-C). Before the formal start of the FRC Build Season, Teams are encouraged to think as much
as they please about their ROBOTS. They may develop prototypes, create proof-of-concept models, and conduct design exercises. Teams
may gather all the raw stock materials and COTS COMPONENTS they want.
All we have to go on is that you can't use old robot parts. If you want to go with the interpretation that your bumpers weren't part of the robot to save a few dollars because you've got financial issues, I don't think anyone would take issue so long as you don't go parading the fact around. The spirit of the rule is more that you shouldn't be using mechanisms, drivetrains, and the like from previous robots.

Personally, I think you're in a grey enough area to be safe; but if you ask for official clarification, it's my belief that you'd get an answer contrary to the one you're looking for.

Philip Arola 03-01-2015 19:32
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgmv123 (Post 1420195)
There is no requirement that bumpers be bagged with a ROBOT; although any bumpers not bagged now count toward the withholding allowance.
...meaning it is a normal part. When I said 'should,' I should have mentioned the withholding allowance.

Apachebot 03-01-2015 19:37
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
Thanks for the quick responses, everyone. I think I'll just drop bumpers from the conversation, since I didn't get the idea that I could convince my teammates that they were necessary anyway. We have better things to worry about, like building a fresh chassis (for some reason, we were under the impression they could be used wholesale and did not prepare any materials to build a new one.)
On a related note, the rules I believe still stated that the team numbers had to be displayed? Does anyone have any suggestions for mounting numbers to a raw chassis?

who716 03-01-2015 19:40
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apachebot (Post 1420186)
My team (5241) is a sophomore team, and so we have come to face the reuse or not to reuse dilemma. I believe my team's robot should have bumpers, as we had several issues last year with the battery being disconnected by a hard bump (our old chassis was dented).
When I was searching these forums for information on reusing parts, there was one particular thread (link) which had several users comment on how the part could be reused because the bumper could possibly be considered not part of the robot. Now that the bumpers are optional and considered to be part of the robot's perimeter, would that mean that the bumpers could definitely NOT be reused?
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
last year was a very hard game on chassis i dont see any issues this year for why bumpers are needed we finally get the freedom to show some metal hahaa

Apachebot 03-01-2015 19:49
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by who716 (Post 1420225)
last year was a very hard game on chassis i dont see any issues this year for why bumpers are needed we finally get the freedom to show some metal hahaa
I know, I'm just paranoid is all. :)

Trey178 03-01-2015 21:26
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
Once again, I'm flashing back to Stack Attack. Bumpers were introduced after I graduated (2006) and I can't make a convincing argument supporting whether you should or should not use these protective cushions. The 28"x42" perimeter constraint only applies when transporting your robot so if you want to use them, go nuts :p

RockerRobot 03-01-2015 21:41
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
I think the bumpers are really your own choice, but you will have to factor in the added size and weight to your robot since they count in those now

EricH 04-01-2015 00:02
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apachebot (Post 1420223)
On a related note, the rules I believe still stated that the team numbers had to be displayed? Does anyone have any suggestions for mounting numbers to a raw chassis?
Correct. You'll find the specifics in R2.

Now, the suggestions: First, print a sample out on paper. Then laminate the paper (use a matte finish if you can, those lights are bright down there!). That'll provide some protection for the paper. Attach the number to, not the chassis/drivetrain, but the superstructure. Just to pick on my old team (and one of my best friends), http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/24201 is a prime example of this method (as is http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/21476, from the year before). Look at the sponsor labels--those are all laminated paper. Just don't use the same color scheme for the numbers we did, use the current legal one.

I want to say that double-stick tape was involved in the attachment of those labels.

cglrcng 04-01-2015 03:56
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
Also note the change in the robot numbering too (The license plate)! Old bumpers if allowed (I don't think under that rule set it will be, once you properly post that question to the Q&A and receive your answer though), would still need to be modified to black #'s of the proper size spacing & stroke on a white background under the 2015 ruleset.

But you should still post the question (there may be others thinking along those very same lines...The Q&A is the proper place to get the answer instead of CD).

rich2202 04-01-2015 05:47
Re: Clarification on New Bumper Rules and Reusing Them
 
I don't think there has been a year when we could have reused last year's bumper. The robot design changed a lot with each challenge.

I might suggest to the team to just attach pool noodles directly to the frame. That gives you most of the protection with minimal weight.


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