Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

At first, it seemed to me that the coopertition points were not worth pursuing, due to the fact that they are a tiebreaker, when the primary method of ranking is not nearly as likely to produce ties as it was in the past, and that it only matters for qualification matches, not playoffs.

However, there is a decently sized points reward for a stack (40 teleop points, 20 points for a set). So I wonder, is it worth the effort to stack for co-op points, or is it better strategically to build stacks of grey totes and containers on your own alliance's side? Keep in mind that the action of stacking on the step is different from stacking on the scoring zones, and may require different mechanisms.

So, what do you think?

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

I think it's MORE than worth it. After looking at the manual, I found that a team's rank is not based on W-L-T anymore. It's based on average score through each match. Since the Coopertition bonus is fairly easy to get at least to the 20-point mark, that can lead to a significant boost to all teams ranks that decide to do it.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

I believe coopertition is worth pursuing. 40(heck, even 20) points is pretty many points and especially at less competitive events, will be huge for rankings going into playoffs.

Coopertating gives an advantage to both teams competing in the match over all the other teams at the event for seeding purposes. Tiebreakers are pretty irrelevant, because it is highly unlikely teams will end up with the same average score to 2 decimal places.

However, as was pointed out, this capability is ONLY useful for qualifications. Qualifications are important to plenty of teams. If you're a team that really wants to pick, it might be a good idea to at least give a fair bit of thought to coopertition.

I don't think coopertition should factor into many reputable scouting systems for elims purposes. If you are good at something else, you are still well in the running to be picked if you haven't ever coopertated. This means if you're okay with being on whatever alliance you may or may not end up on, you should be fine ignoring coopertition.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

They are absolutely worth it, simply because not only are they a tie breaker, but they also significantly contribute to your qualification average, which is on the 1st order of determining your place on the rankings in quals.

Not pursuing the coopertition points will be a major comparative disadvantage to your team in the rankings.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

40 points to lift 2 totes 4 feet off the ground. Seems like a no-brainer for seeding high.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

It is completely worth it if you do The Noodle Agreement, anything else isn't worth the effort.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

In 5.3.4(Qualification seeding) in the manual it explains how it is the 2nd order sort for the ranking criteria at a competition. So I'd say, and it explains itself very well, that it is pretty worth it to implement the cooperation strategy in order rank high at competitions.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

Is it necessarily even 2 totes? My understanding was that it just had to be a stack of 4 yellow totes, so even contributing 3-1 would be make the cut

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

One alliance does two, the other does two. If an alliance can truly only do one, then fine. Yet it isn't too far a stretch goal to stack two at once on the Step (IMO) if a team plans to stack one on the Step. It's only ~14lbs. Or if it is too far a stretch, then stack two gold totes in 2 trips, going 18" higher on the 2nd trip.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

Also, one alliance could do 3, and the other does 1.

It seems to me now that it is worth it to stack for coopertition. However, I would keep stacking on the scoring zones, with containers, a priority, since coopertition is not nearly as beneficial for playoffs.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

Actually, it's not beneficial at all for playoffs! There are no coopertition points in the playoffs.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

100% worth it this year, why leave points out there!? The robot is already designed to perform the task

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

Yes (Period).

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

Coopertition is worth it for tiebreakers and scoring points to help your alliance.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

Worth it yes. I think that it has to be done early before stacks start block the drivers view.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

Any competitive robot will be able to 4-stack anyways so why wouldn't you get 40 co-op points? In any circumstance the co-op points will put you ahead or keep you at pace with the competition.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

Overall coopertition is also important for developing a relationship with the opposing alliances teams who you may or may not play with during qualification matches. Come alliance selection those opposing teams might remember how crucial(or not) of a role you played in stacking the coopertition tubs.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

Coopertition is important because of the amounts of points for the task not so much for seeding due to the unlikeness that they will need to use it as a tiebreaker

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

I agree. The Noodle Agreement and the coopertition points go hand in hand. If your goal is to beat the other team... whatever (and you are playing the game wrong). If your goal is to score high, and thus seed high, both seem necessary for optimal play.

Assuming the noodle agreement is not nerfed somehow. It is kind of Over Powered at the moment.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

I don't think it is necessary, but it will certainly help.

The fact of the matter is - eliminations really don't matter very much. Tell me how many times you've seen a #1 seed lose the tournament. The answer is probably a lot.

Eliminations are what matters, and there is no coopertition in eliminations. If you devote a significant amount of your strategy or build design to doing coopertition, you're not going to do well in elims. Sure, you can do fine. But you won't do fantastic unless you have a spectacular bot.

You have to rely on the fact that the other alliance wants coopertition just as much as you do, and can also even reach to get the fourth tote up. Some teams will not be able to reach. Some teams will not care about coopertition.

For example, the teams seeded 4-12ish are going to care A LOT about coopertition on the second day. The 1-3 and 13-45ish teams will not. That's a vast majority. Those teams need to show off to other teams what they can do ASIDE from coopertition, in order to get the best alliance.

Sure, the first day, there will be a lot. But when it comes down to crunch time, coopertition based strategy won't win you anything.

Besides, if the other alliance doesn't want to do coopertition, you just wasted a lot of valuable time placing the totes on the ledge when you could have been doing other work.

Re: Coopertition...Is it worth it this year?
 

This is an interesting conundrum. I think the importance will fall on if all the teams or none of the teams decide to pursue it. Also i think it weighs on the ability of the team/robots. Slow team, it may prove beneficial to use a majority of the time to make the cooperation bonus.