Chief Delphi

Chief Delphi (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/index.php)
-   Electrical (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=53)
-   -   2015 Control System Frying Victors (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132260)

icecube45 06-01-2015 17:15
2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Hello!
We wired up the 2015 control system on an old drive base (just 4 cims and pneumatics for shifting)

Unfortunately, we've now fried 3 victors with this system, and we can't figure out why.

Each time, a different Victor is fried, all 884s.

From what we can tell from the driver station logs, there is a massive spike of voltage as the Victor fries, 12 volts to ~ 6.5 (this is probably caused by the frying itself).

The driverstation will also get a message about 1 brownout, then continue as usual.

When the robot is disabled, the robot continues to spin in a circle,

we then shut off the breaker.

Any help would be appreciated as to why these victors are being fried.

cgmv123 06-01-2015 17:24
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Did you wire the Victors backwards?

icecube45 06-01-2015 17:28
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
I wish it was something that simple..

They are all wired correctly,
No contacts are being made between positive and negative (short circuits)

I just find it odd that it is a different victor each time..

icecube45 06-01-2015 17:30
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dellagd (Post 1423057)
Was the battery and the PDP constructed correctly with the correct polarities?
Yup..

Nothing is wrong there.

Jon Stratis 06-01-2015 17:35
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Are the victors old?. Is it possible there is some metal debris that could be causing the short?

In alpha and beta testing, we he our robot running, at various times, with 884, 888, gray and black jags, talons, talon sr's, and finally the new victors and talons, and didn't have an issue with any of them.

icecube45 06-01-2015 17:36
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis (Post 1423065)
Are the victors old?. Is it possible there is some metal debris that could be causing the short?

In alpha and beta testing, we he our robot running, at various times, with 884, 888, gray and black jags, talons, talon sr's, and finally the new victors and talons, and didn't have an issue with any of them.

These were working on a 2014 control system bot, we transferred them over and then this happened.

Ether 06-01-2015 18:58
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecube45 (Post 1423068)
These were working on a 2014 control system bot, we transferred them over and then this happened.
Post some focused pictures showing close-ups of your wiring.

icecube45 06-01-2015 22:47
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether (Post 1423152)
Post some focused pictures showing close-ups of your wiring.
When I get to the lab tomorrow, I will try to remember.
However, I can guarantee it is wired correctly.

Al Skierkiewicz 07-01-2015 07:45
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
In nearly 100% of these failures, the input and output wiring is flipped. The Victors and all other controllers are not protected for this kind of miswire. The Victor has hard to see markings on the case.

Conor Ryan 07-01-2015 10:02
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz (Post 1423426)
In nearly 100% of these failures, the input and output wiring is flipped. The Victors and all other controllers are not protected for this kind of miswire. The Victor has hard to see markings on the case.
Al's right, see the warning on Page 1:
http://content.vexrobotics.com/docs/...al-9-25-06.pdf

Ether 07-01-2015 10:24
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 

Hopefully he will post pictures.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...94&postcount=8

icecube45 07-01-2015 11:24
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Still not at the lab, picture will come though..

As for wiring them backwards, again, I wish it was something that simple.

Mark McLeod 07-01-2015 11:37
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
I had a team who once wired all their speed controllers correctly, but reversed the power leads into the power distribution panel :(
That doesn't sound like your issue though, since they'd all go at once.

Just double check upstream for reversed wiring.

ehfeinberg 07-01-2015 11:39
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod (Post 1423580)
I had a team who once wired all their speed controllers correctly, but reversed the power leads into the power distribution panel :(
That doesn't sound like your issue though, since they'd all go at once.
Yeah 449 did that a year or two back. Ended up blowing through 7 jags...

Wasn't fun.

icecube45 07-01-2015 14:27
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod (Post 1423580)
I had a team who once wired all their speed controllers correctly, but reversed the power leads into the power distribution panel :(
That doesn't sound like your issue though, since they'd all go at once.

Just double check upstream for reversed wiring.
Checked that again yesterday, the pdp is giving a positive voltage, as expected..

I might try limiting the speed in code, seeing if that will still fry one or not..
I just don't want to have to sacrifice any..

NotInControl 07-01-2015 17:05
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecube45 (Post 1423042)
Hello!

When the robot is disabled, the robot continues to spin in a circle,
You have a short, either at the motor controller or the drivetrain motor itself (case short). I would highly suggest checking your wiring again.

We have used over 4 different RoboRio's since 2013 (Alpha and Beta testing) and have not had a single issue with any of them frying motor controllers on a correctly wired system.

Hope that helps,
Kevin

icecube45 07-01-2015 18:31
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NotInControl (Post 1423867)
You have a short, either at the motor controller or the drivetrain motor itself (case short). I would highly suggest checking your wiring again.

We have used over 4 different RoboRio's since 2013 (Alpha and Beta testing) and have not had a single issue with any of them frying motor controllers on a correctly wired system.

Hope that helps,
Kevin
I believe the victor is frying in such a way that it shorts, being as the only motor moving at the time of disable, is the fried victor.

tStano 07-01-2015 18:58
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
I have had no roboRIO experience yet, but, the cRIO control system outputs 5v through the red cable in the PWM by default(presumably for the use of speedcontrollers), but page 13 of the roboRIO manual says it outputs 6v there always.

However, if this was a real problem, it would have gotten caught in beta testing, and it wasn't. It is probably not the issue. As to what is, I couldn't tell you. Its definitely shorting with that kind of voltage drop.

Link to roboRIO manual https://decibel.ni.com/content/docs/DOC-30419

Joe Ross 07-01-2015 19:15
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tStano (Post 1423936)
I have had no roboRIO experience yet, but, the cRIO control system outputs 5v through the red cable in the PWM by default(presumably for the use of speedcontrollers), but page 13 of the roboRIO manual says it outputs 6v there always.
The Digital Sidecar output 6V on the center pin when the servo jumper was installed. It was disconnected when the servo jumper was not installed. The roboRIO does output 6v all the time on the center pin. However, all FRC legal speed controllers have the center pin disconnected, so it doesn't matter what the roboRIO outputs.

icecube45 07-01-2015 19:58
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
So, turns out we were just unlucky...

We put on a fourth victor, and after using combinations of the pdp and pdb, we trusted it enough to hook everything up.

It worked fine..

I guess all we've learned from this is:

it's the mechanical team's fault.

tStano 07-01-2015 20:06
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Ross (Post 1423942)
The Digital Sidecar output 6V on the center pin when the servo jumper was installed. It was disconnected when the servo jumper was not installed. The roboRIO does output 6v all the time on the center pin. However, all FRC legal speed controllers have the center pin disconnected, so it doesn't matter what the roboRIO outputs.
Thanks! I didn't know that, and was wondering how that worked.

nighterfighter 07-01-2015 22:02
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by icecube45 (Post 1423961)
So, turns out we were just unlucky...

We put on a fourth victor, and after using combinations of the pdp and pdb, we trusted it enough to hook everything up.

It worked fine..

I guess all we've learned from this is:

it's the mechanical team's fault.
So did you find out what the actual problem was though, so you can avoid it in the future? (Or maybe help any other teams reading who might have the same problem?)

I'm assuming it was inverted polarity?

John Retkowski 07-01-2015 22:10
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
it's the mechanical team's fault.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighterfighter (Post 1424031)
So did you find out what the actual problem was though, so you can avoid it in the future? (Or maybe help any other teams reading who might have the same problem?)

I'm assuming it was inverted polarity?
It was obviously all the code weighing down on the victor fan causing the victor to over heat and get a nice crispy golden brown color all over.

It's always the programmers fault.

icecube45 07-01-2015 23:09
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nighterfighter (Post 1424031)
So did you find out what the actual problem was though, so you can avoid it in the future? (Or maybe help any other teams reading who might have the same problem?)

I'm assuming it was inverted polarity?
It was not inverted polarity...

We just had 3 unlucky victors in a row
(see: mechanical people stupidly drilling over electronics)

dubiousSwain 07-01-2015 23:50
Re: 2015 Control System Frying Victors
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Retkowski (Post 1424036)
It was obviously all the code weighing down on the victor fan causing the victor to over heat and get a nice crispy golden brown color all over.

It's always the programmers fault.
We're overweight! Quick, delete some code!

It's always the co-captain's fault.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:45.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi