Auto Powerhouse?
 

I believe that there will be a team that will be able to score all cans and stack all containers in auto getting 28 points everytime for their alliance

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

That really wouldn't be surprising. Elite teams always figure out how to maximize their autonomous performance. It's what makes them elite.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Yeah, it doesn't seem _that_ difficult conceptually. It would be hard to pull off due to all the sensors required and testing time needed.

1) Get your alliance partners to drive forward to get the robot set. Maybe ask them to push their cans with them.
2) Use your high-quality stacker robot to grab the yellow bins one at a time, build a stack, then scoot to the auto zone and drop it off.

Tada!

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

I'm certain we'll see several alliances manage this. I think a single team doing all this in 15 seconds is a bit much unless they're simply hurling the recycle containers in the general direction of the auto zone.

On the other hand, I think we will see an alliance that scores the container set and tote stack in auto, and claims atleast two of the center recycle containers.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

We're working on a concept that could score a CONTAINER SET on its own during auto mode. It might work, it might not. We'll have to see.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Is it three lasso's and a drivetrain? :)

That would be legal, (and useful) as Karthik pointed out in his "Karthik's Strategic Analysis" seminar which is part of Build Blitz.

I hope we have a few Texas partners this year who can lasso up some Containers.

<Insert Yee-Haw here>

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

John, I think you and Karthik are correct IF the lassos avoid G16 (E & H) violations. I wonder if it is possible to get a Q&A response on this topic without running afoul of the GDC's position against reviewing potential designs?

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Why not just lasso all 3 containers and all three totes at the same time? You wouldn't get the stack bonus but for an average team this would be an easy 14 points (lasso your alliance partners and make it 18 points).

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

I think it is completely reasonable to assume that one robot can score everything in auto bar the robot set. Although I am not on a team this year, I am designing a theoretical bot (full CAD) that should be able to get the 28 points alone (I know, easier said than done).

To be completely honest, it is less about the robot and more about the strategy and working with other teams.

In fact, with a perfect alliance, I foresee a robot set, container set, Tote stack, and possession of 7 of the 10 containers on the field. XXDoing this is nearly an instant win if you can get a few stacks with bins on them.XX

Edit: Have to get into a Max Point mindset. Doing this will give you amble opportunity for scoring, and allows you to stack a bit lower (One 6 tote+Cont stack< Two 4 tote +cont stacks) to maximize your scoring potential. Doing this also limits the opposition to 3 stacks with containers on them (because you have the other 7).

Hope this helps some teams strategize.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

I suspect there will be more than one team that can.

I also predict that because of unintentional interference from the other teams on the alliance they won't be getting that as often as they'd like.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Okay, close enough. It's three lassos, a drivetrain, and a quick winch. We're looking at reliable ways to detach from the containers without tipping them over.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Full loop back to the robot instead of loop at the end? Hold one end, winch the other, drop the held end after you've gotten the containers, winch in the rest. It's a one trick pony, but I have difficulty believing any 3 container winch system would be reusable anyways.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Clearly teams will just go fishing for containers instead. It shouldn't be that hard to cast into the noodle hole, right? :)

Seriously though I'm looking forward to seeing the solutions teams find to this problem. I'm guessing we will see some clever solutions including the return of tape measures on FRC robots.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Teams that have a plan of dragging containers behind them better also come up with a way to stand them back up. Generally speaking, getting 8 points in autonomous isn't worth losing a potential 90 points in tele-op.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

We are working on some concepts that would get the 20 points for stacking the three yellow totes by ourselves in autonomous - I am pretty certain that we'll get it. (I'll know in three or four weeks). Adding all three recycling bins into the mix makes things more interesting. I have some ideas on how we could do this, but developing them into something that works is a lower priority than fully developing the primary functions of our robot.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

We haven't prototyped anything outside of our feet yet, but standing up a horizontal container mostly seems a matter of pushing down on the bottom with something grippy and backing up. Not sure if that wasted time is worth the 8 auto points, but container teams are probably going to want some sort of uprighting system anyways unless they're planning on playing in the land of spherical chickens.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

instead of thinking about how to stand up a container why not figure out how to pick up a tipped over one? My feeling is the container laying down is going to be the default condition. All you have to do is bump one a little bit and over they go.
We plan on only picking up horizontal containers. If it is standing we will just bump it first.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Alternatively, develop a way to pick up a container that is on its side.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Simply pointing out the point trade-off there. If you're going to actively tip bins, be aware that there will be plenty of potential partners who won't be able to pick them up. That also means plenty of potential teams that won't make good alliance partners for you, whether you're the captain or they are. Passing the buck to the other team here doesn't seem like a great solution to me.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

There will always be an auto powerhouse, it just depends whether it will be easy to do for them, or very complicated.

I'm guessing it might be easy this year, but I haven't seen anything yet.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

The input helps tremendously we have a mock Cad design of a 28 point auto robot I guess just put it to the test

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

The theory is there for us I feel many teams will be able to stack but getting the can as well Will be part of the frame perimeter you can extend in my opinion

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

We're working on an auton that can stack all the totes on its own, as well as possibly get a container set. It's possible to upright the containers by hitting the handles with the tips of a forklift. That said, if we rely on our alliance partners to move into the auto zone, we were thinking of doing the "Stack n' Smack". That is, we grab a tote, smack the container into the auto zone, go straight forward, stack the totes, then smack the next container out of the way. Stack last one, drive to auto zone, done.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Not a bad idea. Until you're permanently tethered together for the remainder of the match. :(

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

You've got 5.5 weeks to solve the "release & retract the lasso" problem. :)

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

We're certainly going to attempt the tote stack auto.
For the container auto, how about three hooks with a base that stands on the floor to an inch above the container's handle, on a rope to pull it in? If you pull the cord through a pulley up high, you could then carry the hooks around at altitude on the back of your 'bot for tele-op. Unless you could manage to put the containers down in an upright position, this would make it MUCH more difficult to score the containers in tele-op; If you had such a system, you'd probably have partners asking you not to use it most matches.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Tote stack auto == crazy. The only way this is happening is if one robot stacks all the totes while the other two move containers out of the way. The third container probably won't make its way into the auto zone.

In fact, I want to compare this to triple balancing in 2012. If an alliance scores the full 32 points in auto, they deserve Loch Ness Monster stickers on their robots.

Edit::There are many other ways of doing this, but I imagine they would be pretty complex engineering challenges. The above method is what I think would be easiest. But, given the lax rules of this year's game, many solutions are possible.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

So we're looking at a tote pickup mechanism that could probably grab the container, lift it, then grab and stack three totes under that. If we can manage that, then all we really need is two teams to bulldoze the other containers out of the way. And to move fast, of course. It helps that we can be driving to the next crate while lifting the previous one.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Ah, the whole "grab the container first" trick, eh?? Yeah I guess I wasn't seeing the possibility of starting on that side of the field (where the container starts out closest to the wall) because then you have to go over the scoring platform to get to the auto zone. It will depend on whether your robot can carry a stack of three totes and a container over the scoring platform. That would be very impressive!

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

Or what about a two bars that pivot at the frame, and in the middle, then a cord is ran through them, and the cord can pull them up or down. Anyways, auto starts, your team members drive forward, you extend a bar and drive forward pushing all of the containers and totes, seems less complicated than the lasso, you just have to get the lengths right. Basically making a long bar push all of the stuff.

Re: Auto Powerhouse?
 

The Ri3D "Tote Ma Goats" could easily do the Auto container stack and get 1 of the RC's into the Auto zone if programmed properly in a straight drive across and a RH arc from the right end 1" back of the first tote facing the field from the driver station (and has 2 pusher bots clearing 2 RC's and themselves into the zone as long as they do not push the totes too out of line doing so, but his collector helps there too), w/ simple straight drives forward).....stack 2 Yellow hold them w/ bottom just 1~2" higher than an RC, after the other 2 RC's and robots are moved forward, collect the third Yellow in the collector, just drive forward pushing both the tote on the floor and the last RC on an arc (using the Totes both high and low to balance the RC and keep it from falling over during the drive forward and the arc right), back up slightly and drop the 2 totes onto the 1 and continue to back up a little bit further in an arc to get into the zone while turning & park. (3 Golden Tote Stack, 3 robot Set, 3 RC Set)....THEY SCORE! Then that stack to the Step in Teleop first! "BAM"....It is up to the other alliance to cap the Coop. stack. Both Score! Double BAM! (Or, Barney's kid....BAM BAM!)

And that could be done without any vision sensors at all. (As soon as I saw that Ri3D "Tote Ma Goat" video I was thinking about how to do that w/ that bot. It was simply the easiest way).:D