G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

There was a RI3D video that talked about holding the can up a bit, or at an angle to allow humans to noodle a can easily. The recent Q&A posting below suggests to me that your robot can't be touching a can *at all* as a noodle is introduced through the litter chute. This makes making noodled stacks *much harder*. Thoughts?

https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...-it-is-exiting

Edit - the rule in question is G27

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

I saw the same thing. Gimme a minute or five and a followup question addressing this will be up.

EDIT: FRC3373 thought the same thing. I also have another question, though.

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

As long as the robot is not controlling the noodle as it comes out the chute it should be okay. Ask on Q&A though just in case.
That answer means you can't grab the tote from the chute midway.

Re: G27, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

But the text of G27 is "ROBOTS and anything they control, e.g. a TOTE, may not contact anything outside the FIELD."

So if you control (touch?) a can, and you feed a noodle into it, if the noodle touches the lid at all, you violate G27 (in my reading).

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

Game - The Game » Game Rules » Human Actions

Q54 Q. Can a human player hold on to litter while it is simultaneously touching the recycle bin ?


A. Yes, there are no rules prohibiting that.


I guess the robot will have to let go of the container first, then have the noodle loaded, and then the robot can re-grab the tote/recycle bin.
Will need to re-ask the GDC about this and be more specfic.

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

Somebody already asked. Given the speed of response this year, I suspect we'll see something by the end of the day.

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...-held-by-robot

Using a human player to feed litter into the container is legal per Q&A 34.

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

But the question is that might change depending on if a robot is controlling said container, according to G27.

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

This is a later Q&A, which may or may not supersede Q&A 34.

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

The rules state that a a robot control anything coming out of the chute. If it's just holding a can, I fail to see how that's illegal.

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

What does it mean for a robot to control something? Does this prohibit totes from the human player chute from sliding onto a waiting robot? :/

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

Wow holy contradictions batman! Lets see how this turns out.

G27 seems very specific on this point:

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

This game had some of the most straightforward and easy to understand (and therefore enforce) rules of any FRC game in recent times. This ruling undoes all of that...

1) "Control" is not given a definition in the glossary, so who knows how this will be called in practice...

2) I hope you are planning on floor loading totes, because this effectively outlaws most HP-to-robot transfers that don't involve the tote touching the floor (depending on the definition of "control").

3) If your human player (or partner) accidentally gets a noodle lodged in your robot while poking it through the litter chute, you are disabled. Additionally, if a noodle is "controlled" by a can that is "controlled" by the robot, am I violating G27?

4) The design of the litter chute and tote chute, along with the human player rules (ex. G6 and G6-1) already provide TWO layers of defense against robot-to-human contact. Do we really need a third?

Regardless of how the GDC feels about this issue, further clarification (at the very least, a definition for "controlling" a game piece) is necessary. I hope they will revisit this ruling and provide an exception to controlling objects in the chutes as long as the robot itself does not enter them. This would totally remove subjectivity from the equation and is clearly preferable to having to come up with an arbitrary ontology of allowed interactions with totes and noodles (ex. active rollers vs. passive rollers vs. clamping game objects vs. a sloped piece of lexan...)

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

This seems like overkill as far as safety is concerned, given that pool noodles are basically harmless, and the existence of the tote chute door and associated rule make this redundant.

I predict that there will be almost no litter scored by robots as a result, as this task becomes much harder if a robot must pick up litter off the floor and reorient it rather than grabbing it as it dangles vertically out of the chute.

Re: G28, Q&A 83, and Noodling a Can Without Touching it
 

How is this enforceable? It seems difficult to prove that the tote never touches the chute and the robot at the same time.