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Drive Team
Just curious. What other sub teams are your drive team members a part of? ie build, programming, PR). My theory is build team ppl may not be the " best" drivers because they don't want to hurt the robot they put so much time into building.
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Re: Drive Team
4183's drive team currently has:
Our fabrication lead Our team president (who works on software and Chairman's) Our design lead (me) Our electrical lead I'm pretty happy smashing our robot into things. I designed it not to break and I trust our durability testing. |
Re: Drive Team
I'd typically say that you should have drive team members from multiple sub teams, this way they can deal with/fix any problems a robot may have on the field since they'll be the only ones who can fix it at that current time. That being said there's also many other factors such as talent, commitment, time put into the team, etc. But it's really up to you to decide what matters the most to you.
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What I stress on my team all the time is that the drive team should be made up of the people who can do the jobs the best. If a freshman who shows up to a decent amount of build days drives better then a senior who has been there everyday, the freshman should drive. That is the same for all of the other possessions except maybe coach.
Last year Our team had Coach- Lead Captain/ Head of Programing Main Driver- (me) Head of Build and Design 2nd Driver for the shooter- Head of Electronics and pneumatics Human player - a few different students from different parts of the team |
For me it was whoever showed the dedication in learning and the willingness to take risks. When people tried driving I often stood out where they drove just to see what it does to the driving.
Destructive driving is not the aim at all its always driving that utilizes your time the best. I know we have drivers who do CAD, Programming, bit of electrical, Manufaturing, interestingly enough none of the drivers seemed to enjoy reading the game rules and planning as much how to drive as I would want them too... Yeah I know they be watching too come at me drivers! |
Re: Drive Team
We love to have a mix of departments so that most things can get fixed, but we end up with mostly fabrication people with some electronics people in there, as well. We don't pick drive team members by department, we pick them because they're the best suited to their role on drive team.
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It is a mindset to have. I have been the on the drive team for two years. It hasn't been a problem for us yet but I'm certainly not afraid of breaking something. What I won't do is intentionally break the robot. Your robots have certain abilities if you can't run full speed into the wall with your manipulator down. Don't do that.
It just doesn't make sense to break your robot for no reason. I also believe that at least one person should have intimate knowledge of the robot. I think this is very important especially for this year. If you need to make an on field repair before a match/assemble your robot. You will want someone who knows exactly how the robot works to fix it. Not the person that has been told how everything works. For most teams I don't think this is an issue but is it something overlooked sometimes. |
Re: Drive Team
We have two programmers as the driver and operator, a mentor as our drive coach, and we haven't decided on our human player yet.
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Since 2009, at least, 1771 has always had a programmer and a mechanical person as the drivers of the robot, but we have always done driver testing to determine who is most qualified. It just happened to have been a programmer and a mechanical student, every time.
Our drive coach is 90% is a mentor. The human player is usually whoever is best at it, but depending on the game, it could be rotated between 2 people. (For example, in Lunacy, we had a quarterback throw the balls for us...turns out he was better at throwing balls more accurately than any of us. :rolleyes: ) A really good benefit of having both a programmer and mechanical as the drive team, is if something isn't working right, you can quickly determine if it is a hardware of software issue (It's probably hardware! :p ), or if you need to do some quick code changes before the match. And usually the programmers are very familiar with the control system, making sure everything syncs with the field, wires are correct, etc. For the coach: While we have, like I said, used a mentor 90% of the time, that role is usually tested as well, and the drivers tend to have the final say. We have found that our students get too timid as a coach, however as a mentor, we aren't afraid to yell to get our point across to the driver... :p But like I said, the drivers tend to have the final say, because only the drivers know who is most effective for them. |
Re: Drive Team
I'm the mechanical captain. A couple days ago I terrified the driver and the programmers and various other people standing around by driving. Apparently pushing the joystick all the way forward and then spinning around isn't normal? But the field (not this year's set up, just a field) was so empty, and I wanted it to go fast!
Honestly, I know exactly how destructible or indestructible the robot is, and specifically which parts. I've seen it/them go through a lot over the years. I'm not going to try to break it, but it's pretty tough in the crucial parts. Back to your original question, we don't separate people into build teams, so it's a bit of an odd question to answer. Right now it's electrical/mechanical, business/mechanical, programming, mechanical/video...sort of. I can't put people into just one category, and even with two I feel like I'm missing something. |
Re: Drive Team
The last couple of year we have had our mechanical lead as the driver because he was the most exprinced driver due to the fact that he had an older sibling on the team. Our drive captian has always been a student, again last couple of years it has been our electical lead. The secondary drive and the human players have lately been a mix of who is the most qualified and suited to the task.
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Re: Drive Team
If anything, a build member who knows the robot well understands that it's tough as heck and handle a lot. I'm leader f build for 1885 and drove at offseason events, I wasn't great at driving but I went full speed and hit other robots b/c I know it an handle it.
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Re: Drive Team
Our Drive Team consists of all Mechanical Team members.
We got out Mechanical lead, myself, and two others. |
Re: Drive Team
Our drive team consists of whoever can drive the robot the best in an overall scenario. This past year I (programming lead) ended up driving the manipulator because I had so much experience when I automated the processes for it. And when in eliminations our batteries slowly became less powerful (we only have 6 chargers) it was extremely helpful because i knew the manual overrides like the back of my hand, and anyone else would not have had much experience with the process needed to manually run the fire sequence.
Our driver (we call the drive train operator the driver) was the lead mechanic, because at the end of a long day, it would often be the two of us left in the shop with one mentor, and while I was rebuilding and deploying code, he would run the robot through its paces and developed a strong chemistry with me controlling the manipulator. Overall, the best drive team is the one that works together seamlessly. Our mentor who coaches every year commented to us this year that we were one of the quietest drive teams he remembers, because other than me calling out defensive targets, we were so used to working together that we rarely had a need to talk, it was running the motions over and over. We worked together as one, and however you can make this interaction is your best drive team. |
Re: Drive Team
Last year our drive team consisted of:
Main Driver: CAD Lead 2nd Driver: Programming Lead (me) (I kind of knew all the buttons for all our mechanisms like it was nothing, since I programmed them) Human Player: Mechanical Coach: Physics Teacher I would say having someone that is familiar with the code and how the whole computer is set up is essential. This just so happens to usually be the programmer, but it does not have to. |
Re: Drive Team
We are not taking the technical specialties of our drive team into account when choosing the drive team. We always use a student as coach - who we chose early. He's been mentored all fall in the fundamentals of strategy and we've worked to show ways those fundamentals have applied in the past to FRC games. He's been involved intimately in the design of the robot from the beginning and has been the primary "rules" student. He's spending lots of time on YouTube and Chief Delphi learning all he can about this year's game.
WE are in the process of choosing the rest of the drive team. All active students can apply. They first must show a full knowledge of the rules by taking a test. Thereafter, we choose six to "train" daily as drivers. Of those six, we'll choose three to join the coach. |
Re: Drive Team
Our team decided to not have the students from last year pilot the robot again this year because they are seniors, but nobody seems to be interested in actually driving this thing.
I usually spend my time in robotics reading what other people's strategies are and forming my own from reading the rules, and help out with electrical and programming. |
Re: Drive Team
In #383 the drive team is independent of other team positions. We try to find the most talented driver, and after that the guys that work better with that driver...
As last year (2015 TBD): *driver - electric *"operator" - mechanical *human player - mechanical *coach - electric |
Re: Drive Team
IMHO, in addition to having a proper mindset (very important), a complete understanding of all the rules of the game, and experience, a Drive Team should have:
-someone who knows the robot inside and out and can improvise on the spot, in terms of mechanical/electrical fixes -someone who knows the software/control system inside an out, and can readily diagnose and fix most FMS/software problems. |
Re: Drive Team
We take a pretty simple approach to choosing a driver. We take our practice robot, set up some trials on a mock field, and see who does the best. Whatever age or background that person has, they become the driver. Driving is so important, so we're not going to not choose the best person simply to add diversity to the drive team.
That being said, here is where our drive team currently stands: Driver: Mechanical Co-Pilot: Software Human player: Mechanical Coach: Strategy Lead (Student) |
Re: Drive Team
Our drive team last year was two builders (HP and gunner), a programmer (driver), and a programming mentor as drive coach.
This year it's shaping up to be two programmers as driver/gunner, the same mentor, and a student from the build side (or maybe media? Who knows) as HP. |
Re: Drive Team
Our team has driver tryouts and usually the best candidate gets the position.
We have requirements though to tryout. You have to be able to attend all competitions (which means keeping your grades up) and you have to have been a contributing member of your subteam. No showing up just to drive. The other requirement is knowing how the robot works (this can be learned after you have been chosen as a member of the drive team). But if you need a quick fix before a match starts, someone on the drive team needs to know what to do. Our drive coach as always been an adult, at least for regular season events. |
Re: Drive Team
last year our drive team was:
Driver: Junior Designer Co-Driver: Senior Electrical Lead HP: Sophomore Strategy/Scouting Lead Coach: Junior Programmer Driver alt: Sophomore Programmer Co-driver alt: Freshman Build Team We base who drives primarily on a written rules test that is timed and observed. We want drive team that knows the rules not a drive team that needs to think about the rules. We also test drivers with the robot and hp with their tasks. The coach is more or less subjected to a psych evaluation to see how they will interact with other coach's and how well they can orate commands and make snap decisions. The coach must also be able to complete a task without getting tunnel vision to the task. Our drive team are typically the "die hard" students whom have the most hours in at the build site as well. Evaluation and testing have given us good/unbiased results for picking a drive team over the past 5 years. Once together its important to practice, practice, practice. we also make the drive team sit/eat/ride together at team functions so that they get familiar with each other. |
Re: Drive Team
Our driving team consisted of the following last competition:
1st Driver: CAD/Mechanical 2nd Driver: Mechanical (myself) Human Player: Team member Coach: Mentor As a rule of thumb, the 1st (main) driver is always the captain. The 2nd driver is someone who knows the robot inside and out, can instruct the driver through strategy, and acts as a second pair of eyes. The human player is typically a non-specialized team member that showed extraordinary worth that year. On our team, the coach does strategy, but on a more broad basis than the second driver. |
I find it interesting that we all seem to be level on the idea of crashing robots out of durability...
Guess my mindset is a bit off, on the field I expect them to do their best to try their hardest to give it everything. Last year shoving was okay and I approved of it but I would absolutely chew out a driver when the driving was overly aggressive. So a random crash not okay no spite no hate.. just competition. That being said there are certain lines that I take as courtesy when competing. If a robot is dead on the field you don't kick em while they are down... Rivalries are what we have on field, refreshments and relaxation time is what we have off of it. |
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It is my belief that the drive team should consist of the people who have earned it the most over the build season and over the years. These are the people who have logged the most hours in the shop and are on task and most productive. It is viewed as a privilege for our most dedicated members. Of course, their ability to drive the robot well is important too.
Edit: my point is that it does not matter where they come from |
Re: Drive Team
I'm the Captain of the "Robot"side of the team. The robot side consists of Design, drive train, fabrication, electrical, programming, and anything else that is directly part of the robot.
Last year we held driver try outs and we chose the following drive team to start. Driver= Field build captain Operator= Programming Captain Commander= "Robot/Pit Captain" (me) Human Player= Our crazy Ginger Field Build member After the first two matches at our regional we made a change to the drive team after unsuccessful matches due to driver error. The new Drive team was as follows Driver= "Robot/Pit Captain" (me) Operator= Chasis/Drivetrain Captain Commander= Design Captain Human Player= Our crazy Ginger Field Build member Due to graduations and additions to the team this year, my best guess for this years drive team will be as follows Driver= "Robot/Pit Captain" (me) Operator= Team Co-Captain Commander= Programmer/rules expert Human Player= Our crazy Ginger Field Build member |
Re: Drive Team
Our 2 drivers have been from Programming and Electronics for a while. Drive team coach is usually one of our Systems Engineers.
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Re: Drive Team
I highly recommend watching the following videos at the time markers indicated: http://youtu.be/ALASWt2uDqw?t=47m10s Driver Qualities http://youtu.be/ALASWt2uDqw?t=54m31s Drive Coach Qualities http://youtu.be/ALASWt2uDqw?t=58m24s Selecting a drive team |
Re: Drive Team
As a rookie team we are being very diverse in our drive team!
Driver: Mechanical Student Operator: Lead student programmer HP: Business/outreach student Coach: Me, mechanical/strategy mentor Our alternates have not been officially determined yet. :) It's best to have a diverse drive team incase something happens to the robot and it needs a quick fix before the match! **Also something that is often overlooked is. Make sure that there are 2 strong people on the drive team that are capable of lifting the robot onto the field!** |
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I would like to emphasize the 'chemistry' bit that Karthik touched upon briefly. Drive team chemistry is VERY important, without it the drive team is not cohesive and thus much less effective. When I was a student I was appointed 'gunner' while my ex-girlfriend was appointed 'driver.' It didn't go well, we were not an effective team. |
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One the team I am a member of, 157, we actually have drive-team tryouts.
Once the robot is completed we have students who want to be a driver, operator or human player practice. We set up distractions and other robots and have them practice. The best driver is usually selected first, and then whoever is the best operator, that they work best with is the other half. You should make sure they work together well, and that they will listen to the drive coach. Last year, we had: Driver: Build Student Operator: CAD Student Human Player: Build Student The students tried out, the drive coach chose his best operator, and she told him who she worked best with, and they worked together to practice. |
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Last year Driver me- (mechanical) Operater- (mechanical) Coach- (mechanical/ design) human player- (mechanical) all 3 years I have been on the team a mechanical student has been driver, operater, and human player and for the most part coach except for when a mentor was one year. |
Re: Drive Team
Our former drive teams have been a part of all the different aspects of robotics. The last couple of years they have been a part of mechanical and programming. Each member on our team that wants to be a part of the drive team has to pass the drive test and be a significant part of the build of the robot- that way they know the robot functions and its limitations. The theory of build team unable to be drivers would not occur as long as they understand how to control the robot properly. Overall, our drive team needs to be able to work together and communicate well.
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Re: Drive Team
Our drive team consists of:
Driver: Programming and Electrical lead (me) Operator: Mechanical lead Human Player: Most athletic person that knows the game well and gets along with the drivers Coach: Future driver We usually stick someone at coach who knows the game well and needs the on-field experience for future years. This is my first year leading drive team, as I was the Operator in 2013 and 2014. Made it to the finals and lost by a tie in F-3 at my first competition as a driver (2014 offseason event). We value our drivers. Over the past few years we've had some great ones, including one that got us to the #4 seed on Curie in 2011. I'm excited to drive at my first regional competition at Bayou in March. |
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Last year our drive team was:
Driver: Lead Programmer 2nd Driver: Electrical Member Captain: Lead Electrical Human Player: Mechanical Member |
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We're using the same drive crew that we selected last year. The philosophy that we had during the selection process was "hire for attitude, train for skill".
You can train most people to operate a robot relatively easily. It's a lot harder to train a drive crew to think tactically, communicate effectively, and work as a team all while under pressure. Our drive team was made up of (last year's position/this year's position) Driver: Drive member (as in the team that designs and build the robot chassis)/ Drive member 2nd Driver: Electronics member / Electronics team lead Human Player: Mechanics member / Director of communications Coach: Electronics team lead / Director of Operations Most people with the qualities of a good driver should do very well on a robotics team, so it isn't surprising that most of our drive crew in leadership positions on the team. As a side note, all of the members of the drive crew are good friends outside of robotics, which means that they have really good chemistry and have very effective teamwork. |
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Last year we had:
Coach- Team Co-President Driver- Head of Programming Operator- Head of PR Human Player- Head of Mechanical It was great having the head of programming as the driver (for 3 years) because he knew the controls and operation of the robot well. PR really helped in strategizing and planning with other teams (extroverted, outgoing kid). A skilled mechanic was extremely important to fix any pre-match issues. He even had to replace a wheel quickly before the Virginia Regional finals last year. And as the coach, I'd like to say I knew the rules and strategies and could keep us calm under pressure. |
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I guess it falls down to personal preference. I know more than the rest of the team about the robot and the game. I wire and program the robot. Part of that is because the team consists of kids who have only been on the team for 2 years at most, while this is my 4th (I don't wanna graduate! I love driving!). |
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Last year, our drive team was composed of the following:
Driver: Team Secretary, Video and Graphics Lead Manipulator: Head Programmer Coach: President, Build Lead Human Player: Vice President of Build We had almost the same drive team in 2013, the coach from 2013 is currently one of our Vice Presidents of Public Relations. So there is quite a variety on the drive team. When I became the driver in 2013, I had been an active member, but I didn't know much about the mechanical aspects of the robot; I had mainly worked on graphics for the team (logo, font, shirt designs, etc). Because of this, I believe a good philosophy to have is see who is the best for the position, because you don't necessarily have to have built the robot to understand the most efficient way to drive it. In fact, sometimes it's helpful to have someone who hasn't had a ton of experience with the robot drive it because they will provide a different perspective. |
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Last year we ran
Driver: Build Officer Operator: Electrical Lead/Electrical Lead Temporary Replacement Human Player: Assembly Lead Coach: Some Loser Alumnus (ME!) Last year was the only time in the entire history of the team we ran a non-student coach. Every position was filled in a previous year, with myself last DCing in 2012 and 2010 and the driver, operator, and human player all on the 2013 team. When I rejoined the team full-time in the winter of 2014, there was no student anointed and/or trained for the position in a game where coaching was more contentious and intense than 2012. We recently have had students that could hold down the position, with 2014 as an aberration. I'm still not sure if having an adult or student coach is the better fit for this team, but I do know that this year I don't have any plans to be the primary drive coach. The option is available for us to plug in four experienced drive team members again, but this year I am working with the students and mentors to identify a new coach that might cause 3 new members to join the drive team. Some team members (and I assume some people in FIRST in general) think the alpha and omega of drive team selection is how well you do your job. When I was DC in 2012, we had a talented human player, driver, and operator for the jobs. They were all impossible to work with alone, much less in a group. When each person could highlight their talents we did well, but we could get btfo'd if one person was having a bad day. Likewise, the drive team members that have been involves for the last tow years may not be the best people on the team behind the sticks (I have no idea if anyone else is better), but they are at every meeting working on a robot with the intention of it being a winning robot they are on the field with. They kept each other "in check", babysat the robot, led up repairs, communicated well with each other (and me), and were good at listening and understanding the rules. Last year, they did their jobs so well to the point that I was probably the weak link. We picked a rookie to fill in as operator at Championships. He was still remembering the buttons while we were packing up, but the dude was, and still is, straight up dedicated to the team and was unquestionably the best choice for the job. The drive team needs to be the four best people you can pick with the capacity to understand the drive team, but ymmv. |
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As the drive mentor for 1640, swerve, especially since we were robot centric, took a long time to get the drive team up to speed. The driver, operator and the human player come from any function on the team, however I insist the team have a working knowledge of the robot so they can talk to mechanical and programming about any issues that might occur. I also harp on good communication skills, even with the competition coach so they are all working from the same language.
PS. Don't ever underestimate the value of a good human player. |
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Driver: Prototyping, mostly.
Operator: Lead Programmer Human Player: Does a little bit of everything really, lately software. Coach: Software Mentor, Ofiicial Pascack-Magic Source Backup: Electrical, Software |
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Easy:
Best driver 2nd Best driver Best Human player Best coach Regardless of department |
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Driver: Student lead and main CAD guy
Operator: electrical and mechanical guy HP: Drive base CAD girl |
Human player - general builder
Driver 1 (me) - electrical, designer, builder, and chairmans director, and webmaster Driver 2/coach - programming lead, team president, builder. |
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Driver 1. Drive Captain, Mechanical, CAD
Driver 2. Electrical, bit of mechanical Driver 3. Programmer And I should point out as the mentor most tied into drive practice. I don't actually like driving robots that much nor am I good at it. |
Re: Drive Team
Hi guys, quick question. Is it legal for us to have an eighth grade member on drive team? I have checked both the game and admin manual and cannot find any stipulations other than, "team member" when referring to drive team. Thanks in advance!
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Me and our other driver are best friends as well as overall team co-captains together with another junior on the team.
He is head of mechanical, knows pneumatics, and does CAD at the beginning of the build season. I'm head of electrical, website/design, and also help (not nearly as much) with CAD. Our drive mentor is also our overall team head mentor and mainly watches over mechanical. Our human player is head of our pit amongst other things. I have never seen as much excitement mixed with anger when he gets behind the driver station and knows just as well as I do that there's a team on the other alliance that needs to just have a good ramming. And usually we're all extremely pumped up when he uses the ramming capabilities especially last year, and if you build your robot sturdily enough you shouldn't have to worry about the risks you need to take (which shouldn't be that much this year anyways). |
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Our drive team consists of:
Build team co-captian Both team co-captians As well as a Programming member We are all well versed on electronics as well. |
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Here's the drive team for 1466:
driver 1 - senior team captain driver 2 - junior mechanical team member coach - senior team captain human player - random freshman AKA noodle jesus |
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the one position that began as an informal tradition about five years ago and is now almost a formal requirement is that the programming lead is the secondary driver. The reasoning behind this is that my coach wants to also have a programmer behind the glass, so he/she knows whats going on in the code if something goes wrong, and what better position to put him/her on than at control of all the safeties and overrides they built into it? I know that it's saved our butts on at least two counts, if not more.
But aside from that the human player is our manufacturing lead, and our main driver is our design and engineering lead, and our coach is an alumni/mentor. |
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I use a weighted table to choose positions on the team. Some of the considerations are time spent during build, time spent on the team in general, skill level, teamwork skills and initiative, and results of a rules/game test.
Our drive team is made up of the three students who put in (by far) the most time and effort on the team. They are also the build leader (driver), main programmer (operator), and Chairman's/business lead (human player.) The two drivers are the team captains. They have the most invested in the robot and the team and its performance; they also know the most about it. |
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