Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

That doesn't seem like a very positive change, maybe the Admin Manual is in error, keep an eye out for a possible update.

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

Agreed, I'm assuming this is just an oversight based on what they said in the blog.

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

I definitely think the option of a silent mentor attending should not eliminate a presenter. It kinda sorta made sense before when it was introduced, but removing the feedback form means we have to make other changes as well, and this would be one I would expect. I would also like to see this optional mentor position be opened up to more than just a team mentor. Allow any option silent observer.

This would allow teams (hall of fame, or teams that seem to always win a regional chairman's award, etc) to offer up their services to others at their regional to provide feedback. I think even more important than feedback from the judges is feedback from the teams who have already achieved what your striving for. They know how much work it is, they know what they did and probably have a good idea of what you do (how many judges follow other team's Twitter and Facebook accounts to keep up to date on local activities?), and they probably know and understand any limitations your team is dealing with. They can tell you what areas you are weak in, and highlight items that you may have done that didn't come across in the presentation. Unlike judges, they can be around to help you team practice and improve in the off season, or able to sit in before the event next year to provide extra feedback. And on the plus side, they haven't already seen the presentation a half hundred times!

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

That is an excellent idea. Allowing teams to be critiqued by their (more accomplished) peers.

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

I too find this removal of feedback disturbing... and their justifications sadly lacking. I also concur that the ideas mentioned so far regarding (1) feedback on the written submission which could be done once before competition as well as the idea of (2) assigning someone to serve as a "court reporter" to type up individual team feedback. These are really good and helpful ideas and if we continue working together on this topic I suspect we can come up with more.

I do have one one question that I have not heard yet...
Having judged at many FLL tournaments both local and state I am intimately familiar with their scoring rubrics and the judging process used at that level. And through that process I have learned that the perception of individuals viewing the same materials and hearing the same facts can vary widely based on their personal experience and area of expertise. Don't the FRC Chairman's judges use some sort of objective scoring system (eg. a rubric of sorts) to narrow down the field for discussion during their deliberation process? It seems to me that providing access to that score sheet at least provides some specific feedback to the team on how well their message was communicated and therefore if their presentation/submission was received as intended. Providing at least this portion of feedback seems like it would require almost no effort since these scores are being accumulated anyway. Maybe if we could combine this "low cost" rubric-like numeric scoring feedback with the somewhat off-loaded "court reporter" free-form subjective feedback, it seems like we would be doing everyone in the community a service.

Providing no feedback what so ever creates a process that lacks transparency. This can breed the appearance of favoritism and unfairness because there is no evidence refute it. This is not the culture change we are all striving for.

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

Having served as a judge for an FTC qualifying event recently, I was heavily disappointed that I was not allowed to give constructive feedback to teams.

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

To sort of add to this discussion. Surprisingly some of the best feedback we have ever received came from judges at the two events where we won the Chairman's Award. The feedback on the form was helpful, but in both cases members of the judging team talked directly with either myself or a few of the team members and gave us feedback. Some of it was just congratulatory but part of it was talking about things they liked and also a little about what distinguished our submission from the others at the event and advice on how to improve for Championships. This clearly can't be done for every team but to me we should be trying to get closer to that level and not moving away from it.

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

Come up to Minnesota! We give feedback to all FLL and FTC teams here :)

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

I'm in the middle of editing a much longer-form response in this thread, but I was just about to comment something similar with regards to FLL/FTC feedback: When I judged in Northern NY, we gave feedback forms in addition to comments.

So why are those programs not standardized? How is that fair to the teams? Why, if different regions can decide to do whatever they want for the younger programs, does FRC lock down any and all chances at team feedback?!

Something is seriously not right here.

(P.S. I sincerely hope that HQ doesn't respond to this by taking feedback away from all programs. That's not my intent in commenting about it. I'm much more on the side of feedback in as many ways as possible, but like I said - much longer post incoming later.)

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

I'm not saying this to pile on to anyone or anything, but other than the names and general award qualities/quantities, I'm not really convinced there is true, enforced standardization at all FRC events in the judging process, whether or not it's intended or official.

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

It was disallowed at the HQ level.
This especially stuck out to me because I missed this on the Judge Certification (as did other FTC judges at that event with illustrious backgrounds in FRC)

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

Hang on hang on, there's a Judge Cert for FTC, there's not for FRC :\

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

It was optional.

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

What was your Judge Cert process like? Ours was a ~20 minute powerpoint review before opening ceremonies.

As noted from this tiny sidetrack on the main discussion, there are so many -other- things that should be corrected surrounding judging... I think this gigantic step in the wrong direction should not have been the first on the priority list.

(Again - long-form response coming later. I've got a day job now...)

Re: [FRC Blog] Chairman’s Award Feedback
 

I don't suppose it's in a format you could share? I'm curious.