Re: Human Player Strategies
 

If you could explain, based on the language written, how is G5 being violated with the strategy proposed. As this is what I would ask a referee and expect an answer in-line with what is written, not an opinion.

Teams were more than willing to "reach over" into the Landfill or AutoZone's until it was clarified to be a volume. May I ask how is this different?

Thanks for the thoughts, both of you.

However, as long as the two people are not simultaneously touching a tote, and the chute door, per G6:

I do not see how any intent is broken and the safety aspect is still adhered to. The first human player is simply turning around, grabbing the next tote as the second human player/driver is operating the door.

Unless a rule or GDC clarification is found to invalidate it, it is simply a way to maximize efficiency while playing the game.

I encourage more discussion and it would be great to see a Q&A question to get a final confirmation.

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

Our team did some pool noodle throwing tests...in the end we decided it wouldn't be necessary.

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

1. What techniques are you using to throw the noodle
2. Can you load and feed the totes in upside down?

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

Are you implying that both of them are in the human player zone at the same time?
That would be a violation of G5: Only one ALLIANCE member may be in each HUMAN PLAYER ZONE at a time.

If you mean that the second human player is handing totes off to the first human player, who operates the whole loading process, then sure, that seems fine. That seems like a perfectly acceptable strategy IMO.

However if the second human player is somehow loading the chute while the first is holding the door open, that does defeat the purpose of the subsystem and the safety rules.

If you could clarify which of the above scenarios it is you're attempting to describe, that would be helpful. Or if you have something completely different in mind...

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

Team 1619 did testing last week on the amount of time it takes to load a tote onto the field from the tote chute.

To give the background information on our testing we used two human players and a tote chute with an aluminum (closely matching the friction of the smooth HDPE that I believe is specified in the manual) ramp instead of a wooden ramp. We also treated the human player zone as a volume, not an area, and watched to ensure the second human player didn't cross the plane of the human player zone.

Our loading technique involved one human player tossing totes, in the proper orientation, to a second human player who loaded the totes and opened the chute door to allow them to slide onto the field. We did start the experiment with a tote "pre-loaded" into the chute to represent a normal situation where the human player arrived at the tote chute before the robot (which could be true or false depending on individual team strategies). We found that it takes 3 seconds on average, dividing the total time to load a set of totes by the number of totes loaded, to load a single tote onto the field. Our lowest average tote loading time was 2.75 seconds per tote, but this is not something that we expect to see with regularity due to the difficult of catching a tote while simultaneously loading it into the chute.

To speak a little more to our technique for loading the totes, the back human player would toss the flat in the correct orientation to the second human player. This means that the tote would require minimal re-alignment before being slid into the end of the tote chute. The human player who manned the chute door would catch these totes, adjust their alignment slightly, then slide them into the chute. While the tote was sliding down the chute and before it hit the chute door, the human player would remove his hand from the tote and rapidly open the chute door so that the tote's motion was not stopped by it. We found it easiest to rapidly open the door when the handle was pulled slightly towards the outside of the assembly, or away from the chute door, while being opened. When the tote had nearly slid out the chute, the human player holding the chute door would call out for the first human player to toss another tote. By the time the human player at the chute door releases the chute door handle and steps to receive the incoming tote, it will be in position to be directly loaded into the chute after the catch.

This technique required good timing between the two human players and accurate throws to the second human player at the tote chute. It would be a technique best used for eliminations alliances where the human players could practice together to coordinate better. If the human player at the tote chute was merely loading the totes from a stack placed next to the chute, it took an average of 3.5 seconds to load each tote. It wasn't much slower, but it also wasn't quite as fun to do! :D

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

What if you had a small tower of totes lined up beside the Tote Chute, such that you could just load another one in the moment that it goes through, without having to bend over, pick one up and then push it through?

That could potentially save on some time, as well as removing the need for the coordination required.

All you would need is for the Alliance to decide on one main chute and to put 2 stronger robots in that position, with the third robot and their own HP working on the other side of the field.

If all 3 Human Players did that during autonomous, it's feasible to say that they could move ~25 of the 30 totes during the autonomous period alone, reducing a ton of time spent walking between the back of the Alliance Station and the Human player Zone.

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

In addition to the human players, no rule prevents the drivers helping move totes and litter during the autonomous period. The only prohibition is G31, which stops the coaches from helping. I'm guessing that (especially with practice), the 9 non-coach members of the drive team can move everything to just about wherever they want in those first 15 seconds.

(And oddly enough, G32 even allows the human player to drive the robot. There really isn't a difference between the three non-coach positions as far as the rules are concerned. Your HP and driver could even swap off during a match if for some reason they wanted to.)

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

It looks like our Drive Team will be doing some physical weight training this season....

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

I've got a couple items. First, regarding the whole "one loads while the other holds the door" idea, reference Q281. It's not illegal until tomorrow, when it will be. Good call by Kevin Leonard.

The other item, regarding the use of human players: First and foremost, it gets more people involved--it's not uncommon for basketball players to be "aggressively recruited" for example. Second, it provides a means for what are known as "brave little toasters" (also known as box-bots, brick-bots, or Dozers) to have an extra edge in competition. And third... It's tradition! There's been a human player for roughly 20 years, why stop?

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

Is there anything against carrying multiple totes from the stack to the Human Player station at once?

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

Nope. Unless you're being unsafe about it.

Re: Human Player Strategies
 

Or doing it over the line in Auto. Or are a coach. But no, otherwise, have at it--you certainly won't be alone.