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-   -   Transport Configuration - External Battery (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133611)

rich2202 28-01-2015 13:04
Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Some teams use a 2nd battery while in Que to pre-charge pneumatics. This keeps from draining the competition battery.

Question 61 states that the robot must stay in Transport Configuration while in the que. When the 2nd battery is attached, is the 2nd battery now considered part of the robot for Transport Configuration purposes?

What about a computer (driver station) that tethers to the robot while in que?

Q61 also means that you better be able to do minor service to your robot while in Transport Configuration (replace battery, fix problems a Robot Inspector finds while you are in que, etc.)

AllenGregoryIV 28-01-2015 13:14
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Link to Q&A 61 answer for the discussion

Q&A 32 states that violations will be treated like safety glasses warnings. This to me means you should be reasonable with your robot. If you need to expand to 12ft to change your battery you have a problem, since you can't do that in the pits or during transport. But if you have to move an arm a few inches out of transport to change a battery and you do it while not moving your robot and you make sure other people aren't around I can't imagine anyone will get mad at you. The intent of the rule as I understand it is to ensure robots can be safely and quickly transported around venues. Minor repairs or pre-match prep that is done in a reasonable manner will most likely not even draw a warning, just like it hasn't in the past.

RallyJeff 28-01-2015 15:37
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2202 (Post 1435205)
Some teams use a 2nd battery while in Que to pre-charge pneumatics. This keeps from draining the competition battery.

Question 61 states that the robot must stay in Transport Configuration while in the que. When the 2nd battery is attached, is the 2nd battery now considered part of the robot for Transport Configuration purposes?
Have you checked the blue box text for rule T6? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think it addresses most of what you're asking.

AllenGregoryIV 28-01-2015 15:48
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyJeff (Post 1435268)
Have you checked the blue box text for rule T6? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think it addresses most of what you're asking.
Thank you, I knew I remembered reading it somewhere but I couldn't find it when I answered earlier.

Quote:
Blue Box from T6 as of 1/28/2015
The intent of T6 and the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION is to make sure that the absence of footprint size restrictions for a ROBOT in the 2015 season does not result in large, unwieldy ROBOTS being pushed through crowded pits. ROBOT parts occasionally transported outside of the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION will be overlooked, e.g. a battery, cable ties, Ethernet cords, etc.
Teams may have more than one TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION for their ROBOT.

Jon Stratis 28-01-2015 15:52
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rich2202 (Post 1435205)
Some teams use a 2nd battery while in Que to pre-charge pneumatics. This keeps from draining the competition battery.

Question 61 states that the robot must stay in Transport Configuration while in the que. When the 2nd battery is attached, is the 2nd battery now considered part of the robot for Transport Configuration purposes?

What about a computer (driver station) that tethers to the robot while in que?

Q61 also means that you better be able to do minor service to your robot while in Transport Configuration (replace battery, fix problems a Robot Inspector finds while you are in que, etc.)
The way I read it, the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION basically takes the place of the starting configuration is it applies to moving the robot around the venue - it's there to provide reasonable size limitations to maintain safety. Things you could do in the past (temporarily hook up an external battery or tether a driver station), in my mind, don't affect the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION. Additionally, if a volunteer, like a robot inspector, asks you to do something that involves exceeding the size limitation of the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION, I honestly can't imagine anyone making a big deal about it.

Stay safe, do things in a safe way with your robot, and be aware of your surrounds and space limitations within the venue. If you can do things reasonably and show respect for the rule, I don't think you'll have a problem.

Daniel_LaFleur 28-01-2015 15:53
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RallyJeff (Post 1435268)
Have you checked the blue box text for rule T6? Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I think it addresses most of what you're asking.
Does T6 mean that the robot cannot be removed from the field until it is in TRANPORT CONFIGURATION? ... and will teams be allowed to enable their robot to get it into TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION?
Quote:
Originally Posted by rules
T6 While transferring the ROBOT throughout the event (e.g. between the Team’s Pit, Practice Field, ARENA, Inspection Station,
etc.), the ROBOT must not exceed a volume that is 28 in. wide x 42 in. long x 78 in. tall (the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION).

Jon Stratis 28-01-2015 16:06
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur (Post 1435273)
Does T6 mean that the robot cannot be removed from the field until it is in TRANPORT CONFIGURATION? ... and will teams be allowed to enable their robot to get it into TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION?
FIRST has been very consistent in the past about not allowing tethered or powered control of a robot pre or post match. I searched the Q&A, and so far I haven't seen any questions on it regarding post match configuration. It would be my assumption that the robot needs to be returned to a TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION before being removed from the field but it is probably worth a Q&A question to verify if it is going to affect your team.

Daniel_LaFleur 28-01-2015 16:24
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis (Post 1435281)
FIRST has been very consistent in the past about not allowing tethered or powered control of a robot pre or post match. I searched the Q&A, and so far I haven't seen any questions on it regarding post match configuration. It would be my assumption that the robot needs to be returned to a TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION before being removed from the field but it is probably worth a Q&A question to verify if it is going to affect your team.
Agreed.

My concern is T6 does not have a penalty attached to it, and therefore might be ignored by some teams (not mine) if they need to leave the field fast.

G11 has a penalty attached to it and a time frame to leave the field which gives reason to break T6 (again without penalty).

G14 does not allow tethering/powering after the match on the field, so teams need to ensure that their robot can be reset to TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION without power at the end of the match. My team is already doing this, but I am concerned that others (especially those that are looking at grabbing the all RECYCLE CONTAINERS off of the STEP.

Sparky3D 28-01-2015 16:24
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
This has been covered in the Q&A for putting your robot onto the field, so I assume that the same rules will apply getting if off again.

A61 states
Quote:
Yes, per T6, the TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION applies whenever the ROBOT is being transported, including from the Pit to the FIELD (through the queue)...
and A214 says that teams can't tether to get their robot out of transport config, so you probably can't tether to get it back in again either.

Q&A61 Link

Q&A214 Link

Jon Stratis 28-01-2015 16:45
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur (Post 1435288)
Agreed.

My concern is T6 does not have a penalty attached to it, and therefore might be ignored by some teams (not mine) if they need to leave the field fast.

G11 has a penalty attached to it and a time frame to leave the field which gives reason to break T6 (again without penalty).

G14 does not allow tethering/powering after the match on the field, so teams need to ensure that their robot can be reset to TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION without power at the end of the match. My team is already doing this, but I am concerned that others (especially those that are looking at grabbing the all RECYCLE CONTAINERS off of the STEP.
See Q&A 32 for the associated penalty:
Quote:
T6 will be treated much like the rule on safety glasses. If event staff sees a team violating T6, they will remind the team of the rule and insist on compliance. If the team continues to ignore the rule, or is found to be regularly violating it, despite warnings by event staff, this is likely to be considered egregious behavior as defined in Section 5.5.4, and the team could receive a yellow or red card. This is a safety issue, teams should treat it very seriously.
The references section (5.5.4) states, in part:
Quote:
In addition to rule violations explicitly listed in The Game section, the Head REFEREE may assign a YELLOW or RED CARD as a result of egregious ROBOT or Team member behavior at the event.

rich2202 28-01-2015 17:45
Re: Transport Configuration - External Battery
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis (Post 1435281)
FIRST has been very consistent in the past about not allowing tethered or powered control of a robot pre or post match. I searched the Q&A, and so far I haven't seen any questions on it regarding post match configuration. It would be my assumption that the robot needs to be returned to a TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION before being removed from the field but it is probably worth a Q&A question to verify if it is going to affect your team.
Look in the blue box on G11
Quote:
G11 DRIVE TEAMS may not cause significant or repeated delays to FIELD reset at the conclusion of the MATCH.

DRIVE TEAMS are expected to remove ROBOTS from the FIELD after the MATCH safely and swiftly. As a guideline, ROBOTS should be configurable in fewer than sixty (60) seconds. DRIVE TEAM efforts that either intentionally or unintentionally delay the FIELD reset process are not allowed. Examples of such delays include, but are not limited to:

A. prolonged assembly/disassembly of a ROBOT to transform it to its TRANSPORT CONFIGURATION

B. taking an excessive amount of time to exit the field after a MATCH is complete
No reason for A if there was no expectation to return to TC.


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