STORAGE TANKS
 

What tanks are you guys using and which ones are legal? My team is having trouble finding which are legal and which are not legal!

FRC 5215 <Steagles>

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Black Clippard is probably the most popular and legal.

White Clippard tanks are NOT legal. (R66) If you are using a tank that is "not usual", make sure you are prepared to show the Inspector or LRI documentation from the manufacturer with a rating of at least 125psi.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Being on a team with a number in the 5000s, you probably don't have a bunch of old Clippard metal tanks laying around, like we do.

I can understand your confusion.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

When did they make the white ones illegal?
(not actively with a team this year, did not totally read the rules)

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

They had a tendency to explode if not used carefully.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Yes, I remember many teams over tightening the fittings. When did FIRST actually make them illegal though? Were they still in use last year?

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Yes they were. This is the first year they have been deemed illegal.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

They were officially discouraged for use last year (with replacements given out at events). This year, they are not legal.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Please read the rules to determining the legality of parts

The rules read:

. Pneumatic storage tanks (with the exception of White Clippard tanks P/N: AVT-PP-41),

The illegal tanks are the White Clippard tanks from 2013, this is a specific one

This is a specific white tank... ALL white pneumatic tanks are not illegal

Here are some examples from AndyMark
Note 3 of 4 are white ... and they are legal..

http://www.andymark.com/Pneumatics-s/398.htm

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

This is what my team used last year: http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2649.htm

But really any that you can get from AndyMark are going to be a safe choice.

______________
Mackenzie Glaser
Team 1261

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Yes, "Safe" as determined by rules. The white Clippard tanks are officially illegal, even if they are sold by AndyMark.
By the way the one you used last year are black Clippard and they are still legal this year.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

The 2013 white Clippard tanks were made illegal part way through last competition season. That is why FIRST shipped the black ones to each event to trade them out.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

We used those air tanks at a week 4 and a week 6 competition. So unless it was illegal just for Week 7 and Champs I don't think that is true.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

They weren't made illegal. However, use was STRONGLY discouraged, to the point where the LRIs were supplied with black tanks for any team that wanted to trade.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

In 2014, we used this Viair 1 gallon from Amazon Prime. Its about the same volume of 6.6 of those black clippard tanks from AndyMark. Mounting is nice with just 2 bolt holes... no clips required.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

The Black Tanks from FIRST Choice were some of the top items on our list for this reason.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

You can use literally any air tank with a rating of 125psi or higher, except the white clippard tanks.

Source: R64 and R66

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Then either the LRI at your week 6 event wasn't keeping up on things and/or the event coordinator for your week 6 did not bring the case of black tanks to the event. I know in the case of the PNW DCMP there was confusion on the part of the event coordinator as to what that case he received was for and it couldn't be located initially. Thankfully we had a lot of them left over from the week 5 and week 6 events and I thought to bring some of those to DCMP just in case there were teams that had only competed in weeks 1-4. We did have a couple show up with the 2013 Clippard tanks so I went out to my car and grabbed the ones I had brought.

Note we were not told to swap out any 2013 tank that teams brought to the competition just that we were required to swap out any that they had on the robot.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

I was an RI at the Championship, and as I recall, we encouraged teams to replace the white tanks, but we did not require them to do so.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Is this air tank legal?

http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2479.htm

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Yes

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

We also went with a metal tank last year, though we didn't need anywhere near a gallon of capacity; ours was about 20 in^3. I think it was a Bimba original line cylinder with an axial port at each end, and no piston. I don't see this on Bimba, but they do have the "Centaur Option" tank which is similarly made and has mounting threads. Had we needed larger, we would have gotten a single aluminum tank.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

I guess this means we should throw out our white clippard tanks ;( Not doing pheumatics this year so I wasnt aware of this change

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

I can guarantee the LRI's at both those events were keeping up on things. One was Big Al, the other was a long time division LRI at champs. It is possible, however, that the tanks were just missed by the inspectors at the event. Sometimes teams stick their tanks in places that make it very hard to see, if you have a rookie inspector looking at their robot who doesn't notice it.

The tanks were NOT illegal last year. That said, LRI's strongly pressured teams to swap them out with the provided black tanks at events, and I know no teams at North Star last year have me any pushback about swapping it. It probably helped that I had most of the pieces from the tank that exploded in Duluth in week 2 with me :)

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Those are nice if you have 6 lbs of weight to use.
They also make a 1/2 gallon one but it weighs 5 lbs.

I remember when we were first allowed to use plastic tanks... it changed the game because of the weight issue and the number we could use.

Again it is a particular white Clippard tank that is illegal not all white clippard tanks or all white tanks in general.
Specifically White Clippard tanks P/N: AVT-PP-41

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

Our rookie year (2012, Rebound Rumble) we used 80-20 to framing, were over 4'+ tall, had a huge 1/2" plywood control board, and topped it off with a center-fed turret shooter that could throw the ball full court (but never hit a basket). We had to "swiss cheese" it to get down to a legal weight, making it even more top-heavy in the process. Since then, we've been using 1/8" aluminum angle and c-channel for structural items (plus this year's KOP for the drive base), and have never had any problem making weight.

Re: STORAGE TANKS
 

I am happy for you... those are great ways to save weight. We use 1/16" aluminum and monocoque our frames using pop rivets and every component we have is designed to be as light as it can possibly be and still survive and function. (After all, most of our mentors design parts of aircraft in their "spare time i.e., every day jobs"). We are lucky enough to be able to use a waterjet. We save weight in every way we can and because we have very complex robots we ALWAYS have to deal with weight. It is just a function of the complexity of the robot. (Which I wish we could get away from.....;0)) The best way to make weight is by thinking about weight from the very first design... you guys do it through your judicious use of materials... that's great...

Hope to see you on the field sometime...