Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

I have a specific pneumatics question - can air cylinders be plumbed with no control valving (solenoid or otherwise)? I.e. always pressurized in a given configuration so they act as a constant-force spring.

Related to bumpers - I wouldn't even call them "bumpers" anymore, as that term is associated with a part or parts subjected to specific rules and exempt from volume and weight rules. Bumpers, as in BUMPERS specifically defined by the manual, do not exist in this year's game.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

This is a good question, my 2 cents is that it will be ok as long as it matches the diagram in R67.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

I would suggest you wait for your Q&A question to be answered. That will carry more weight than what is posted here.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

You can call them "bumpers" but not "BUMPERS".

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

James, I'm not aware of any rules that would prohibit that, providing you meet all rules, of course (the cylinder is on the low pressure side, you have all required components for a pneumatic system, everything is properly rated, etc)

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

The answer to Q312 indicates that pneumatic cylinders are always subject to the pneumatics rules. I don't see any way for a permanently-pressurized cylinder to meet those rules.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

Which is precisely why I asked Q&A. However, it never hurts to forewarn/get the opinion of the in-field experts and LRIs like Al and Jon.

Thanks. This is the same conclusion I arrived at.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

Allow me to clarify then.

I am not referring to a permanently sealed or pressurized air cylinders. I just want to put 60psi into one side of an air cylinder without a solenoid valve in the way. The air will vent when the pneumatic system is de-pressurized.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

So Q&A 312 refers to a cylinder plugged at both ends. You cannot vent it with the pressure release valve so that is not legal. The Q&A does not address directly plumbing the cylinder to the working pressure line.

Unless there is a rule stating cylinders must be plumbed through a control valve, I don't see how it could not be legal. (Q&A unless Q&A rules otherwise) The pressure regulator is self relieving by rule so over pressurizing the system is not an issue. Now if you where to add a couple of check valves & turned it into a air pump... But check valves are not allowed by rule. Nevermind.

On the subject of bumpers. For this year only you can put lead-iron rods in your pool noodles? :yikes:

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

You must make sure that pressure never exceeds 60 PSI on the working side. If you are using it as a spring, the compression could increase the pressure above 60 PSI. One possible solution is to put a pressure relief valve on the working pressure side that is set to 60 PSI.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

Are you sure it will just be for this year?
;)

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

So everyone, I am in contact with HQ now over this question. Give me a day or so to straighten this out.

James, while there is no pneumatic rule that this violates what you will have is essentially a device that moves on it's own without being enabled by the FMS. Potentially that could be a violation of R8.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

Thanks Al!

Since this air cylinder will be connected to the main 60psi working line any excess pressure will be vented by the regulator. This configuration is key in both its operation in our design as well as keeping it legal.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

It's common practice on our robots to plumb pneumatic cylinders so they are pressurized when there is system pressure, and it's also common for there to be a way to have them be "actuated" mechanically, which will increase system pressure momentarily so that the regulator will have to vent it. The only difference he is proposing, is not having a solenoid valve in the system.

Re: Al's Annual Inspection Thread 2015
 

Does it move without being enabled by the FMS? If it extends when there is pressure in the system, how does that pressure get there? According to the rules the only way that pressure can get there is via "one and only one compressor" (R68) that "must be powered and controlled by the ROBOT" (R69). If this is the case then, wouldn't this actuator be controlled by the FMS? How is this any different than a solenoid that is locked in the 'on' position?