What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Does anyone have any suggestions for what type of motor we could use for our lift? We found that bag motors are a little slow. We were trying to go with rs775's but having some trouble with the adapter. We only have 1 cim more allowed because we already used 5 on our drive.

And with that how did you guys hook up the motor? Planetary gear box? Simple box?

Just looking for some ideas.

I know of some team that is using a worm gear box so there is no drift.

Anyways thanks,
Joshua Sicz

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

A 775 in the 18v version does have enough power to lift 3 totes and a container. A Mini Cim also works. Personally I love the Versa Planetary for this sort of an application. The 775 motors interface with it very easily. You can interface the CIM or Mini CIM with it but you need to cut the shaft to assembly it per Vex recommendation. You also have a huge number of possible gear ratios with the Versa Planetary.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

My team is doing an elevator system that is run with chain. Our system is run by two Andymark 9015 motors and a 1:35 planetary from vex. These are the stats for the system are here.
Attachment 18255


With what we have so far it seems to work fine, but if the 9015 motors are not strong enough we are going to switch to the bane bots RS-775-18 motors. Here are the stats for the RS-775-18 motors.
Attachment 18256


My best advice would be to use the dual input attachment for the vex pro planetary gearbox. They are very easy to work with.

Best of luck!


PS. If you do use the 9015 motors, you have to cut the output shafts down a little for it to work with the dual input.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We're using 2 drive gearboxes with power take off, 2 CIMs per box. It's not quite enough to lift 3 totes, but we plan to gear it down more.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Our tote lifter is powered by a CIM, through a toughbox, and chain sprocket reduction, which powers a cam, that lifts the arm. Kind of complicated sounding, but it works.

Our container lifter also uses a CIM and toughbox, and even more chain sprocket speed reduction, and it's also counterbalanced with a gas spring, and Latex tubing.

Springs of some sort can really help reduce the load on the motor, if you can figure out a way to use them. Our container lifter is balanced so that it needs to be driven down with a little bit of force when not holding a container, and driven up with about the same amount of force when it is holding a container. This cuts the load on the motor by quite a bit.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We're using a van door motor with a 3.5 in winch. It lifted all 6 totes and a recycling bin 6 feet in like 4 or 5 seconds with no problem. I think we might up the size of the winch to 5 in so it'll go a bit faster. Van door motor is probably the simplest solution for this game because it has tons of torque and it's fairly easy to implement (don't need a gearbox or anything).

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We are using a Mini-CIM hooked up to a 30:1 versaplanitary gearbox. It lifts our whole 70inchs in about 4 seconds and can handle up to (theoretically) 300 lbs. (We ran some tests to see how much it could lift, but we broke the scale before the motor failed.) We also have no drift simply due to the ration we are using, it being to hard to turn without a substantial amount of force trying to back drive it.

Good luck!

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Is this designed to create a reciprocating motion from the tote lifter while still only having to drive the motor forward? Sounds interesting/promising.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Well...that would be nice, but it needs to reverse. We didn't come up with the cam design until a few days ago, and there's other stuff in the way of making it so it can go all the way around. The linkage system we're using on the container lifter will probably go all the way around in one direction.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We are using one RS775-18 through a drill motor planetary on the low speed.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

One cim on a toughbox. Lifts 6 totes at reasonable speed without a problem.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Two AndyMark WormBoxes, each driven by a CIM. We didn't want to have to deal with a brake mechanism on our lift, so a worm drive was the obvious choice.

Overkill, but a little overkill never hurt anyone.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Two CIMs, each on a Toughbox Nano. In testing today, looks to hold three totes and a container in place like a champ. Our grabber however... needs work.

Probably overkill, but it also gives us a nice counterweight to our lift.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

One CIM on a CIMple Box. It should work for what we need it to.

("Why?" You ask. "Because," I reply, "it's what we had on hand and purchase orders are a pain!")

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Is this with all 6 + bin?

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Wow, thanks for all that info. It really came in handy. I really do like your suggestion. If we do the VersaPlanetary Dual Motor Input, with 2 rs775 - 18v what gear ratio would you suggest? 1 to3? We are looking to lift all 6 totes + bin in about 3 - 4 sec. Also do you know of the shipping time for banebot. That might be the right choice for us, to go through banebot. We just need the items this week.

Thanks,
Joshua Sicz

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Very interesting, we have tons of window motors in our shop. We might have to try it.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Please remember thermal mass when/if you want to hold elevator position in PID loop with motor...the fan cooled motors are not a good choice for this.
-Ronnie

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Using two versaplanetaries, each with a 50:1 ratio and a miniCIM. Definitely going to be enough, just not sure if it is fast enough. Might downsize later to like 30:1 or something similar.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

I can't find the specs at the moment, but I'm pretty sure the Taigene van door motors have quite a bit more torque than the window motors.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Two CIMs geared 1.5:1 at the transmission. We can lift 6 plus container.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

One CIM, 1:25 versaplanetary gear box driving 15t sprocket chain system. Measured speed 1.3 feet per second. PID with 3 totes. Holding current about 8 amps using a clamp meter. About 25 amp at full speed with 3 totes. Our arm system is 22 pounds. No constant spring.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Our lift mechanism originally used 2 CIMS one on each side through a 2 stage gearbox on each side. Due to weight issues, we swapped them out with 775 banebots with the CIMulator adaptor.
We saved 2 and 1/2 pounds and they easily lift the elevator with 6 totes with a trash can.
When we had the CIMS on, there were overkill, but only decided to swap out due to weight issues.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We ended up using a cim for ours, geared 12:1 to the elevator via versaplanetary. We can switch to two if we need to or lower the gear ratio.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Is there any good way to mount the VersaPlanetary Dual Motor Input? There are the two screw holes on the panetary gear box but I feel that would be too much weight only on two.

Thanks,
Joshua Sicz

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Yes, the Taigene's stall torque is 360 lb-in and the window motor's (Denso) is 93.8 lb-in.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

The gear ratio needed depends on what is happening after the transmission. What is the diameter of the drum or drive sprocket?

Define what you mean by lift 6 totes plus 1 bin in 3-4 sec, how far do you want to lift it in that time? Once you have created a 6T + 1C stack you only need to lift it a little more than 2" to place it on the scoring platform. That should be able to be done in a fraction of a second. So how are you creating that stack, ie what is the heaviest load and how far to you need to lift it and what is the highest distance you need to lift and how much is that weight.

Here is the JVN design calculator page. http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/2755? On the first tab copy the motor you wish to use and paste it into the linear motion tab motor fields.

You can then select the motors per trans, gear box efficiency (I use 10% per planetary stage), the amount of weight you wish to lift (don't forget the weight of the mechanism and a fudge factor to overcome the friction), the distance you want to lift the load and then play with gear ratios. For the planetary it is easiest to put 1 in for the drive and the ratio of the stage in the driven fields. For stages you are not using just put 1 in both fields. It is a good idea to make sure that the stall torque is significantly more than the load you want to lift in case the load "sticks". Personally I wouldn't design for less than 2X the actual weight.


Personally I'd recommend the Mini CIM or CIM for this application despite that it is more involved to mount. The 775 is a fan cooled motor so it doesn't like spinning slowly and really doesn't like being stalled. The CIM families on the other hand are much more tolerant of operating at slow speeds and being stalled.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We are using 2 snowblower motors direct driving opposite ends of a shaft with a pulley fixed in the center. It is essentially a winch. We only need to lift 2 totes max. at a time.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

FRC558 is running a custom 18:1 worm gearbox with dual mini CIM input and for now a 4" diameter drum.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Two CIMs on the lift. Jumping on the six CIM hype train here.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

One CIM on an 8.45:1 gearbox (same as on the KOP for interchangeability), geared down 32:15 by chain, then lifting using two #35 chains on 15 tooth sprockets. It has several times the lifting power we'll need, because we're going to try it without a brake. We're only using three CIMs for drive, so we are going to check the current draw when we hold the maximum load (4 totes) and add another CIM if it's much over 20A, or if we experience too much heating during practice. On the curves it looks like it'll be about 14A, which means about 170W, all going to heat when holding station on four totes. I really suspect that we are going to build a brake on Thursday and Saturday.

An ironic choice of phrase :)

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We are using 1 mini-CIM connected to a 35:1 versaplanetary with a 15T sprocket driving a #35 chain to our elevator carriage. It seems to have the power and speed we were looking for.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

2 gearboxes, each with a CIM in a Banebots planetary with a 16:1 reduction. It lifts at a speed that satisfies us and can easily lift 6 totes and a container.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Two CIMs into a standard ratio AndyMark RAW Box on a 15T #35 sprocket (PD = 1.79").

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Two CIMs in a 12.75:1 toughbox.

We did the math on one CIM and decided we liked two better.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Our team is using a threaded rod setup.

We used two mini-CIMs on a Toughbox-Mini gearbox. It's more than enough for that particular purpose: we can lift six totes and a bin with no trouble.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We are using a single Bag motor and some weight compensation trickery. It seems pretty unique compared to everyone else's specs, but it fits our strategy very well. We'll see.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

14A @ 0 RPM is more like 18W.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Agree!
We use a CIM motor last year for our winch and it performed well and tolerate stalling very well. The load we put on last year is way higher than this year's lift requirement. We did fried one CIM motor on our practice bot but that was only after practicing for 3 hours non stop. The motor was so hot we could fry an egg.
We use the JVN calculator to decide on the sprocket size and versaplanetary gear ratio for this year's lift. What we observe in real life is very close to what we predicted.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We're using 2 CIMs and a Mini-CIM with a 16.73:1 reduction

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Two RS775's, each powering a 50:1 Versaplanetary gearbox with a disc brake coupled inbetween the two gearboxes. A video of it can be found here: http://youtu.be/JrebWdH8x4c

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

mini-CIM to 20:1 versaplanetary. seems to be as fast as we want and lifts fine. will be beginning PID testing in the next day or so to see how it handles the load. Hoping to not need a break.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

I can't believe only one other person has mentioned BAG motors. In my opinion, they are the perfect choice for this application, as they have a similar free speed as the 775s and can interface perfectly with the VersaPlanetaries. Also, they aren't fan cooled and instead have a high thermal density, meaning they won't get wrecked as you PID loops try to hold the totes in place. They've been champs for us, and they weight only a fraction of a CIM or miniCIM.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

The BAG motor might be ok for some lifts, but if there's a CIM or miniCIM available, why not overpower the mechanism? speed is good....power is good....extra capacity is good....

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Posting what ratios you're using without also showing how big of a lever arm [pulley/sprocket/4-bar/etc] is involved is pretty meaningless.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We have had some issues with the chain driving the shaft skipping after it is loaded with 3+ totes, but that is a tensioning issue, not a problem with the motor. We have pulled over 100lbs of weight up with it (which is more than 6x7.6lbs (totes)+ 8.8x1 (bin)) We will be doing some actual testing with some totes once the tensioning is worked out and the chain no longer skips.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We have set up two opposing VexPro 2 speed ball shifting transmissions.

One has 2 CIM’s the other is only used as a shift on the fly ratcheting system.
It lined up so nicely putting the transmissions together..

Gear ratios of 8.33:1 and 3.6:1 on a custom 3d printed 1” diameter spool and strap guide system.

Per the JVN calculator, our low gear should move our 60” lift system fully in approximately 2 seconds with a 40lb. load and a stall load of 570lbs at 10amps. The high speed, which I doubt we will use much, runs the loaded lift at less than a second with a stall load of 250lbs at 19 amps.

It is “overkill” and so is the lift system that goes with it..

We will be adjusting speeds this week to fine tune the lift. Sure do not need to launch those totes into the stands..

Good luck to everyone this year!
Aloha!

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We used two CIMs with a vexpro single speed double reduction with the stock (slowest) speed. Then it goes from a 22 or 18t sprocket to a 72t sprocket. I am confident that mini CIMs would be plenty powerful if you don't have the motors to spare. This gives a ridiculous amount of torque so we can lift rather quickly compared to lifts that use smaller motors.

Edit: We don't use a spool, a continuous loop of chain lifts the arm things and that is driven off the shaft with the 72t with 22t sprockets.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

True enough. We're driving 2" diameter sprockets with our two 12:75:1 CIMs.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

What are those sprockets driving?

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

A belt with more 2" sprockets along the way. The total moment arm on the toughbox output shaft is 1"--the rest of the pulleys are just for direction changes.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

We are running a MiniCim with a Versa Planetary that is 36:1

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Robodox are using two old Bosch Van Door motors directly driving (via their included worm gearboxes) a 6" drum that has a few wraps of cord in a continuous loop lift.

- Mr. Van

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

I don't know the schedule that BaneBots works to, but its probably similar to that of vex or andymark. If you go onto VEX, they sell many different gear ratios for the planetary gearboxes. Since ours is a 1:35 ratio, we used a 1:5 stage and a 1:7 stage. A great resource is the JVN mechanical systems calculator. You can choose your own gear ratios and then make educated purchases. In the linear mechanisms category, you can specify the distance to travel and the weights for approximate times.

Best of luck!

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

The Average Joes are using a can of spinach (aka CIM motor) on a RAW Box (AM-2372) with further reduction via Vexpro gears (30:84) to drive two 36 tooth Vexpro HTD pulleys on two 15mm wide belts, which connect to our left and right elevator carriages. Top unloaded speed is 4 seconds for a 60 inch lift, and we have lifted six totes while drawing 28 Amperes at the CIM terminals.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

Or you could attach 4 BAG motors with dual-input versaplanetaries and overpower your lift with less weight (for the same amount of power) than a similar solution using CIMs or MiniCIMs.

Re: What motors are you using for your lift?
 

we are using 2 cim's that run through 76 to 1 planetary gearboxes. They have been a pain to mount but we got it mounted yesterday. Now we just need to make the elevator plate and the bracket that connects it to the fork