Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Some things my team tries to focus on:

Pick a winning strategy - Directly after kick-off we try to pick a strategy where we think we can seed high at any level of competition. This is usually based on how many points we can score with a given strategy.

Stick with it - Once we have chosen our strategy, we do what we can to not deviate from it. You don't have time during build season to be indecisive or change your mind halfway through.

Keep it simple - Building a simple robot is extremely important. The more things you have going on with your robot is just more things to fail during a match. Try to keep it down to just a few simple mechanisms that can do a lot instead of a lot of mechanisms that do one thing. Our robot last year was about as simple as they come, but it was very effective.

Don't reinvent the wheel - If there is something out there that works great for what you need, use it. Maybe you can modify it to better suit your situation but generally you don't need to come up with something brand new to be competitive.

Keep improving - Just because build season ends doesn't mean improving your robot goes with it. In the past we have used our withholding allowance to replace entire mechanisms because they were better than the originals.

Good Scouting - At competition it is crucial that you know what every robot there is good/bad at and how they compliment your game. Even your weakest partners are useful for something, it just takes a little creativity to figure out how they can best help win a match.

Hope this helps :)

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Luck. For lower-tier teams luck plays a large role. This is luck in design (stumbling upon the right design early), luck in build season (stars align and your build season goes smoothly), luck in competition (match schedules, high tier teams noticing you, etc.).

Of course luck isn't everything, but it definitely is something. The points everyone else has mentioned are all very important (maybe not the corn dogs), but to overcome the luck barrier means that you need to have a ginormous base of skills and knowledge. Even great teams fail to beat out bad luck with raw robotics expertise.

The only way to overcome luck (besides being lucky), is to eliminate places where luck may play a role. Although impossible in some places such as match schedules and certain aspects of competition a lot of the time you can replace luck with large amounts of dedication. This is dedication in literally everything: design, strategy, driver practice, scouting, learning, etc.

In example, build season has started and your ready to go, to eliminate luck in design, you need to put the effort into prototyping every mechanism you find viable, this means having a crew of people working around the clock to find the right design for your resources and skill level. Look through concepts on Chief Delphi, watch all of the Robot in 3 Days videos, study resources that teams put out (like Simbot Seminars).

To be a Einstein level team you need to eliminate the places where luck exists and replace them with a base of knowledge and skill and a base of dedication.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

We should have all the 'physical' pieces in place:
Multiple long-time mentors
A very healthy budget
Plenty of very dedicated students
A shop which we can access at any time
Support (sometimes better than others) from the school
Time

I'm also thinking in terms of the approach to the season...
For instance, I do believe that it's very important to set the bar very high when looking into design strategies. If you want to go to Einstein, you have to be willing do do more than "push a single tote into the auto-zone" for an autonomous routine. Start with stacking three on your own. Then try to do more.

"That's impossible" cannot be part of the vocabulary of your team. It needs to be replaced with "That would be challenging." Then, imagine a robot that could meet said challenge. If you can imagine it, the robot can be built.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

The best way to get to Einstein is to analyze the game, figure out which three robots would make up the ideal Einstein alliance, and then design, build, iterate, and polish the one that best matches your teams' capabilities.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Not viewing the elite teams (or regionally elite teams) as being spoiled, but realizing that they have something special... and that you can replicate it. Maybe it'll take a few years... maybe it'll take more mentors/parents/teachers... maybe it'll take more resources... but those are things you can attain with time and effort.

For example, elite teams have gotten past other teams having more/bigger/better sponsors (resources or financial), and have spent a lot of time over several years getting that level of sponsorship.

The difference between viewing an elite team as an 'out-group' and as a 'reference-group'.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Nothing's impossible, if your team can believe in that, any team can make Einstein.

Do some teams have more factors in their favor (call them "Elite" or "Powerhouse" if you'd like)? Sure but it's not just resources that build you a solid machine, train your drivers and help you at competition.

Nor does size of your team. 100 students is great, but is just having that many students give you that big of an advantage over a team of 10 - 20 committed kids?

It's the amount of resources you have, it's how you manage them.

In the end, Einstein should always be a goal, even if it's not your active one. My team's been around the block a bit (20 - 22 years depending on who you ask :D) and we've never been to Einstein but our goal is to build a robot, have fun while doing it and compete at a high level.

With that said, we can't wait to show off what we've built this season in a couple weeks and (fingers crossed) we perform well enough to earn a blue banner.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

I understand the sentiment here (we all need to be careful about being shut down by limits that may not exist), but I highly disagree with the premise within the context of FRC strategic design. Recognizing when something is impossible for your team is absolutely critical to the success of any team. The teams that perform the best are the ones who recognize their own capabilities and design and build within them. Every year on 1114 we rule out certain designs because they're beyond what we can effectively create in a build season with our given level of resources. The focus is always on "how far can we push the envelope, without compromising consistency and effectiveness". I find the biggest mistake FIRST teams make is to try and do too much, and end up being mediocre or poor at the overwhelming attempt. This is definitely much more common than teams who don't push the envelope far enough and end up being over matched.

Getting to Einstein isn't impossible for any team, however building a robot to do every task in the game at an Einstein level very well may be.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Our 2011 Season.

1) fair point, total shop + robot + tool, etc... budget was around $10k

2) Zero engineers actively involved.

3) Manual mill, two manual lathes, sanders, etc... Sponsor w/ waterjet (but even paying retail price for waterjet is cheap if you wanted).

4) 11 Students.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

I kept my response a little over-simplified. After visualizing a robot that could accomplish a specific task, it is imperative that the team determine whether or not the construction of that robot is within their capabilities. However, that decision cannot be made until some thought has been put into how the task could be accomplished.

It has happened on my team - and others - that a strong strategy is suggested, but that it is rejected without putting any thought into how it might be accomplished... In other words, they would never give themselves the chance to be successful.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Yes.... but, your robot also has to be capable of reaching Championship first. In certain games, there are niche designs that are incredibly important at the top levels of play, but might not be all that important at lower levels and end up failing to qualify for Championship.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Of course. A robot built for maximizing the chance of winning its Regional or District may be very different from one that is the perfect third robot on an Einstein alliance. Or not...depends on the game.

Realistically, there is usually at least one spot for a "individual contributor" robot that, while it can't do everything, can productively do some scoring objective well. Ex., a really efficient tote stacker or recycle bin capper is likely to do reasonably well at all levels of eliminations play given the right partners.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

I know for us it was a mix of robot design, strategy, and good luck. Some years everything just "clicks" and you make it. Every year you should be designing and strategizing to play at the highest level. None of this, "That'll do" business.

We are definitely itching to get back there. Hence our newest t-shirt design :)

http://www.zazzle.com/no_sleep_til_e...47236812950034

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Getting to Einstein has two levels.
Being one of the top tier elite teams in each division, who then pick each other in the 1st round. Then the complementary 2nd partner to help round out the alliance.
There are other cases where the alliance captain seeded lower, picks 2 great teams (during serpentine drafts), that also build great alliances. In those instances sometimes, we've seen good teams fall to the bottom of the top 8, decline and make their own.

The problem is for teams similar to ours. We can never get over the hump, because we dont get picked early, nor do we get picked later in the 2nd round. Always stuck in the middle. Being in the middle is the worst place to be or to be selected there, IMO.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Just to be clear, you are actually talking about a few different levels.

1. There are the non-hall of fame teams that make to to the World Championship on a regular basis (this takes a specific plan and execution to qualify each year). (probably around 200 teams)

2. Once at the World championship, there is a level associated with those that play in elims/playoffs almost every year (I think it is down to only 4 teams that have played in every year of elims). Each year, there are roughly 100 making it into elims/playoffs, but around 50 seem to do this most years.

3. Then there is another teir that regularly advance (think semis-finals) in their division. This is a much smaller group of about 20 or so, and are often the FRC Top 25 type of teams.

4. Lastly, there are the regulars on Einstein. This is a very small crowd. whose member ship changes slowly over time. Although for many years 12 robots made it to Einstein, the 3rd partner of each alliance was usually a 1 year type of advancer. This says that at most the group is around 8 teams. I would probably put it closer to 3-5 depending on how you are doing your accounting.

************************
Strategy for group 1 is to execute a really good robot, and go to multiple events to maximize your chances of qualifying for World Championship. If you are a district team, these in theory match population distribution, so you need to be one of the top 600/3,000 or top 20%. Realistically this would just put you on the threshold of getting in or out, so to be consistent you would really need to be a top 10% team. (typically top 4 at a district event and/or top 4-6 at a regional depending on size).

Strategy for group 2 is a little trickier. Realistically, you need to be one of the Top 100 teams in the world and/or have good team recognition. Team/Brand recognition will boost you a bit in the picking standings, so making sure the pickers know who you are is a big deal (besides being pretty awesome). For reference top 100 of 3,000 teams is 1/30. Basically you are frequently the best at your district and either the best or 2nd best at most regionals. Historical recognition of being really good helps.

Stratgey for group 3: All of the above and then some. Historical recognition of being really good is nearly essential. This group is effectively the 1% ers. the only time this group stands a chance of not making Elims is IRI.

Lastly, the Einsteiners... I don't really know what it takes. By my math they are the top 0.3% of FRC. Some years this is a small gap in competitiveness over the previous group. Some years it is big. If you truly want to be one of those teams, you need to talk with them about what they do, and how they got there. I will say, success breeds success (in more ways than one). It tends to be easier to recruit the best when you are "the best". Other than that, these teams produce some magic that only they likely understand.

Re: The Quest for Einstein
 

Never a truer & short, less than 2 line, single sentence statement for such a huge undertaking annually.

Amazing that most people can list 5~8 huge things, taking paragraphs to iterate, that determine what it takes to reach "The Big E" at the FIRST FRC Championships....Yet a leader on 1 of the (IF not THE), most successful teams (Elite as most describe FIRST FRC Team 254, listed the absolute right order, and all that is really necessary...The rest are just the tools you use to reach it in reality.

Our team often qualifies to go to The Championships (and yes, it has been a long time since the last time, but Team 60 has played on that wonderful "Big E Field" in the limelight - long before my time w/ the team), and rarely actually even attends the Championships anymore ~Just 1 time even attending in the last 4 years actually. (Though the plan every year, is to do so, IF we can be in our own minds competitive when there).

Unless that route outlined above by Jared is followed by our team (that can easily only be determined by US and the field of others midseason), IF our robot will be competitive, and that is our ultimate deciding factor...Not whether we can afford it, not how behind us currently the community or our multiple schools are, certainly not by the fabrication machines we have access to or the hrs. or people required to build robots, but, by how well we as a team each year.... Have "ALL Read the RULES," (sorry Jared to steal the rest from what you so eloquently posted prior)....."analyzed the game, figured out which three robots would make up the ideal Einstein alliance, and then designed, built, iterated, and polished the one that best matches our team capabilities."

Last year was the first year in a while we both had a competition robot finished early enough & a decent place to actually practice with it, then we finished building the practice bot after the other 1 was bagged.

Each yr. we have a handful of truly dedicated students building, and each yr. we lose a great many of those dedicated students to colleges nationwide. And we nearly start over again w/ a few veterans. That is a really good thing!

Each year lately, just 1 or more of those elements has been missing from our smaller but long time around community based rural two digit team.

Yes, sometimes building to WIN a Regional, can sometimes make one over build also (or go an overly simplistic route also, and not take enough risks by not attempting things we have seen or felt fail before), and not concentrate on doing just 1 thing extremely well (better than thousands of other bots), and cause one to not be a 2nd., or 3rd. pick. On that I also agree.

Striving to be third best, and in a supporting role, isn't in the cards for many great teams though when designing. Those that do take that chance also succeed at playing there too! (They just don't often receive that Elite Tag!) But, nowhere on that Pretty Blue World Champion or World Finalist Banner does the word "Elite" appear either. How many of those in your collection is important though.

This game (Recycle rush) may just stand all those thoughts right on their heads this year, I can certainly see it in my crystal ball.

It will be interesting, as so many have parsed this game to pcs.....I think tote stack building will be faster & faster as the season weeks progress. Some will be amazed that by week 3, some Alliances will actually run out of game pcs.. I know that isn't anywhere in thoughts (by the majority opinion I've seen so far), in the wisdom here on CD though. Some early previews shows it will be true though. There are at least 16 different specialty bot types so far, not just a few being built this year.

Just a prediction.