Is this considered damaged?
 

Attachment 18310 If a robot did this to a trashcan would the judges considered it damaged and disqualify us?

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

The penalty is foul and disabled, not disqualify.

To me, you squashed an RC. If that type of damaged is easily pushed out, then I would let you continue playing with a squashed RC. If I know that that type of damage is permanent, or otherwise destructive, then I would call a foul.

IMHO deformation that can be quickly fixed between matches (pushed out in a few seconds) is not "damage" for purposes of G16-G.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

Just a reminder, opinions expressed on these forums are not official. Also, This would be difficult to form into a Q&A-able question.

I would certainly try to find a way to reduce the force on whatever mechanism did that since, even if the first incident yields temporary damage, repeated squishing could increase the likelihood of permanent damage.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

Q&A for sure. I wouldn't want that happening myself. Adding hard stops could help to whatever is gripping that, or a special can grabber.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

I agree with both the answer and the qualifications. In my mind, if the "repair" is simply to push the piece back into shape, it's not really damage. CD is a great place for opinions, but the Q&A is the place for answers about rules.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

Judges wouldn't care, but referees might

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

Actually, someone did ask about what sort of damage would remove a game piece from use. Not quite the same question, but I do anticipate that a robot that rendered a game piece unusable in one go would be asked to fix something. That RC is--if not fixed by pushing--pretty much unusable, and even after the fix it would be "suspect" (that is, monitored for cracking, and probably replaced for eliminations).


My take on a possible Q&A: "If a single robot interacts with a game piece such that the game piece is deformed, but still can be restored to near its original condition in a short period of time, would this in general be considered damage per G16? We recognize that the referees have final say during the match, but would like some guidance for the teams."

Laughing cause our bot has done the same thing. The rc goes back to its normal shape by itself sometimes, sometimes it needs a little help.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

Actually if Judges saw your robot do this while observing matches they might care.

I would think that the FTAs and field managers might get a bit miffed and sick the inspectors after you.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

As a referee, if you do this once I'd let it slide, but if you're doing this consistently I'd consider it to be in violation of G16.

That being said, ask the question Eric suggested on the Q&A, it's a good question.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

I would say if your robot intentionally does that to the bin, we have a problem and will get penalties for it.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

Here's my issue with this deformation:

Regardless of how easy or difficult it is to restore the game piece back to its original state, what happens if another team wants to interact with that game piece?

That recycling container could fall off or another robot might want to come grab it and place it somewhere else. By deforming the game piece like that, you have significantly altered the ways in which another team can interact with it.

Definitely a question for the the QA.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

I don't know if you'd get disqualified but if the referees feel that your doing it every match, deliberately, you'll probably get fouled.

Best to ask either the Q&A like what's been suggested before and/or talk to your head referee when you get to your competition if your robot is still doing that to them.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

I wouldn't expect the Game Design Committee to give a definitive opinion on what constitutes game piece damage. My feeling is that the decision should be left up to the referees and field supervisor.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

An annual reminder:

Judges wear blue shirts and give you awards

Referees wear zebra stripes and give you fouls/cards.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

I agree with Alan. You won't get an actionable answer on Q&A.

Put on your "running the event" hat and think about this scenario.

The field reset people find that, after being squished 10 times, the recycle bin fails and has to be replaced. 4 of 64 teams are doing the squishing. There's a limited quantity of backup bins. You have a competition to run. Do you tell the 4 teams they can't squish the bin, or run the risk that you run out and have to stop competing?

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

And inspectors wear green hats and give you inspection stickers.

To add a couple more cents to the thread..... The teams that are picking up the totes by the flange near the top edge of the tote are also deforming the totes every time they pick one up. An argument could be made that the flange will only be able to be deformed so many times before it fails as well.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

Those banners are very confusing to me.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

There's a very simple explanation as to how they won Curie from the Archimedes field in 2007.

Andy Baker must have been on the team then.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

Sorry for going off-topic

It appears that the 1999 Championship Chairman's and the 2003 Buckeye Chairman's banners are from Team 120, the 2003 Buckeye Winner banner is from Team 541, the 2005 Buckeye Winner banner is from Team 274, and the 2007 Buckeye Winner and 2007 Curie Division Winner banners are from Team 1270. All of those teams are out of Cleveland, so it's probably a shared practice facility. However, 541 and 274 haven't existed since 2005 and 1270 hasn't existed since 2013, so maybe they merged together at some point.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

As best I can understand it:
1999 Chairman's Award Winner - Team 120 (Cleveland, OH)
2003 Buckeye Regional Chairman's Award - Team 120 (Cleveland, OH)*
2003 Buckeye Regional Winners - Team 541 (Cleveland, OH) - Now defunct
2005 Buckeye Regional Winners - Team 274 (Cleveland, OH) - Now defunct
2007 Florida Regional Winners - Team 1270 (Cleveland, OH) - Now defunct
2007 Curie Division Winners - Team 1270 (Cleveland, OH) - Now defunct

I'd assume that this is either a shared build space and/or there has been some mentor/sponsor turnover between those defunct teams and 120.

*For reference, there was a period where HoF teams were allowed to resubmit for Chairman's every season, unlike the current 5 year ban or the previous total ban.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

There we go, makes sense now. Sorry for derailing the thread.

Re: Is this considered damaged?
 

Just a wee bit less squeeze please. Don't be in such a "Rush To Recycle" the Containers. Lol. (That looks like it was run over by a robot, not simply placed upon a stack of Totes). Everyone should be required to bring their nice fresh RC's with them to the competitions, they repeatedly damage one like that, FIRST and their FTA's can trade w/ them out w/ the offending teams. That's 1 expensive game pc. to destroy too often (lowest I have even seen the lids so far is $15.00 Ea. plus shipping, container w/ lid upwards of $54.00 Ea. plus shipping). Ouch.