Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

___________

It is very hard to see (I had to slow everything down and catch it just right to see, over & over & over again). They have them supported From Batman~Robin I believe just above the 3 RC openings...At least that is what I think I finally saw (both Robots move just as the auto period starts to trigger it, and then the Gotham city Bridge Flop Bot does its work...Rube Goldberg Machine to the max)...And I must have run that video 300 times last night alone to see all there was to see.

*And yes...I also saw her throw that perfect shot w/ the blue Litter pc. dead perfect into that stacked bin also. It only took 18 tries to see those 3 frames correctly!

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Which is why I asked last night earlier in the thread. And why I stated that. The robot does control the Stack via the Robin bot section (or even the Batman Bot section if inserted while the forks control the RC, ergo the RC is a part of the stack or not (either way a robot controls the game pc. during the insertion of the litter), and the litter is NOT inserted in the RC via the Litter Chute, so the exception to the rule does not seem to apply if parsed logically...But, I didn't yet know if there was a recent Q&A dealing with it. The rule as originally written, had a later "exception made", we have seen exceptions to exceptions in the past....Will be interesting to see where it goes. Squeeky wheel...meet grease. Look where "The Littering Agreement" went back in weeks 1&2. (Up down, around the corner....Down the street, across the nation, and ended up nearly in a different country...No longer in contract format!) It just simply does not even exist. Though there is a possibility, now just in a different form. We may agree NOT TO LITTER!

I wasn't about to rain on a certainly fantastic parade (asking questions and hopefully getting some answers was what I was after), as tradeoffs are always necessary when attempting the seemingly or nearly impossible.

Team 148 deserves all the accolades they receive on that amazing tethered robot contraption. They cannot possibly fail now...They tried no matter what! We'd certainly be very happy to insert their litter at the Championships!

And so would many others.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

at 0:21 for anyone wondering :)

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

That is... beautiful. I really do love 148's videos. No matter how proud I may be of the robot that we've just stuffed into a crate, 148's videos always make me want to do just a little bit more next year.

And they're also pretty cool to show to friends, "See THAT... we play the same game, in the same league as THEM."

(It helps my friends understand why we lose matches, sometimes....)

BUT... before anyone starts handing out Championship Banners just yet, my observation over the years is that three robots executing "conventional" strategy perfectly, tend to have the edge over unique or unconventional machines. If there were a machine to upset that observation, this might well be it, but there are many other machines that I'm looking forward to seeing yet!

Jason

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

There are many seemingly conflicting Q&A answers concerning the issue. Q141 seems to conflict with the following G27 and the 2 allowed exceptions.

But, Q141 asks the specific question (Is it legal to feed litter over the alliance wall to a robot). And the answer was published on 1-13-2015.

The G27 rule though as currently written: As of 2-16-2015 8:30 PM MST
____________________________________
G27 ROBOTS and anything they control (except for LITTER in the LITTER CHUTE and TOTES in the TOTE CHUTE), may not contact
anything outside the FIELD.
VIOLATION: Offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.
____________________________________

Is it possible that Q141 could be true and G27 not violated in any way (numerous possibilities there)...Absolutely YES! And it IS LEGAL...Which was the question.

If, the human player legally feeds the Litter over the alliance wall to an RC, HP stays out of the field, and does not contact a Robot or anything controlled by a robot on the field.

IE: Robot stacks totes, w/ RC on top of Totes. Robot backs off stack (Totes and stack no longer controlled by robot), and HP feeds Litter into RC...Easy Peasy! No G27 Penalty. Or, HP hangs Litter over alliance wall, stays out of the field, robot below, HP drops litter into robot, and litter does not contact robot while still off the field. Again, easy. No G27 Penalty. There are others possible.

It could be easily argued LOGICALLY & SPECIFICALLY, even without any human contact (impossible to do without throwing it or dropping it over the alliance wall), that If the Litter is OUTSIDE the Field when inserted (it is an "ANYTHING" outside the field, or AN ITEM REFERRED TO, the litter is not IN THE LITTER CHUTE, is not a TOTE IN THE TOTE CHUTE, and the RC will be the "ANYTHING a robot controls!"

Is it (LITTER), Anything outside the field....Yes.
Is the Robot controlling the RC...Yes.
Is it in 1 of the 2 exempted spots (LITTER in LITTER CHUTE, or TOTE in TOTE CHUTE)?.....No.
Is it exempt....Not under the Rule G27 (and it's included 2 specific exceptions of course).
Does a Q&A conflict...Absolutely YES & NO (See Q141! and its associated answer).
__________________________________________________ _
Q. Is it legal for a human player to feed a pool noodle to a robot from above the wall rather than the litter chute?
2015-01-12 by FRC3339A.

There are no rules that would prohibit this, but special attention should be paid to G4: "DRIVE TEAMS may not extend any body part into the FIELD during the MATCH" and G1: "ROBOTS whose operation ... is dangerous or unsafe are not permitted."
2015-01-13 Published by GDC
__________________________

There is a Chicken & Egg type of problem here. (Sort of).

As I remember it, since there was quite a stir dealing mainly, I believed at the time, with those wanting their robots to contact or receive totes from the tote chutes directly, and many had already chosen designs and started building them, and G27 had no exceptions at that time (squeeky wheels got the grease via the 2 exceptions being made via the updated G27......(I would need to research it fully), but I remember that the G27 exceptions were a part of an update that was I believe, made after the referenced 1-8-2015 and 1-13-2015 Q&A dates! Oh Boy.

As I remember it G27 originally was printed as below (I will later look at the original FRC 2015 Password Protected Game Manual to confirm it),....without the 2 exceptions later added. (This caused a crap storm concerning those that wanted totes delivered directly to their robots, the 2 exceptions were later added). Squeeky wheels got greased!
______________________________________________
G27 ROBOTS and anything they control, may not contact
anything outside the FIELD.

VIOLATION: Offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.
_____________________________________________

The RULE(s) trumps even Q&A answers I believe....Right?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Q. Can a human player hold on to litter while it is simultaneously touching the recycle bin ?
2015-01-08 by FRC2081

A. Yes, there are no rules prohibiting that.

That question left "the ROBOT, and anything the ROBOT controls" out of the equation completely. Answer is correct.

See Stack (robot not touching the stack or RC), you can even do so, even if a robot controls the RC...As long as you do so through the Litter Chute....They added that exception later to G27.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but it appears to start sliding out immediately before that clip ends.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

The Q and A states that there are no rules prohibiting human players from holding litter while the robot touches the RC. However, there are rules which, under certain circumstances, prohibit this action. The game manual is the higher authority in this case.

In this case, the robot is controlling an RC and that RC is touching a noodle that is outside the field. The exception for litter/tote in the chute applies to what the robot is controlling, not what is outside the field.

As the rules are written, it seems pretty clear that this move is illegal.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Vimeo doesn't seem working on my computer. Could you post this video on Youtube as well please (if you have a channel)?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

There's a chance that this could get overturned by FIRST as presenting a "hazard on the field" with some robots (especially with the mechanum wheels) not being able to go over the tether.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

And that would be a huge shame because it takes a lot of guts and smarts to pull off something like this.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Considering the GDC made an update to the blue box in R2 specifically addressing tethered robots. I highly doubt this design will be "overturned".

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

No way, there is no other robot around but your alliance mates and you can ask them to stay out of the way (just like any other game).

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

FYI, G27 concerns can stand down. Q&A clarified that a human loading a pool noodle into a Container over the wall is considered to be controlling the Litter until the loading is completed. Q404.



Error 404: Penalty not found.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

How many cans of CodeSpode were consumed during the making of Batman and Robin?

Amazing bot(s). It will be cool to watch at competition.