Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

A lot of jaws hitting the floor this morning, mine included. Incredible robot guys, can't wait to see it in action during a real match.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Had to watch it several times and was in shocked that someone would tether off the main bot. Congrats on a very solid robot can wait to see it compete in action

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I wonder how the process of pitching this design went... Probably from "laughable insanity," to "questionable viability," and finally "bewildered acceptance."

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

It would take an alliance of The Riddler, Mr. Freeze, Bane to contend with this awesome robot by 148.

This game is getting more interesting...::rtm::

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

brb, flying to Dallas to see this amazing bot in action...

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

So, how does FIRST expect them to number this thing?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I would think it would have to have 4 sides worth of visible numbers on all 3 parts

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

but two parts are static against fixed surfaces.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Rules arent built around robots. Robots are built around the rules.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Yes!!!

Team 148

When you feel its time, I'd like to hear more about the cable. I'm assuming it's a multi conductor, high flex. Can you give specifics? Where are the controllers for Robin and Batgirl? If they are local are you using CAN? Are there connectors on the cables to make it easy to transport?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Something like this

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

We pondered the idea of having a bot that specialized in moving pre-made stacks, rather than stacking itself. We figured nobody would opt for a design that stacked and didn't move the stack itself, though. 148 just opted to make both. :rolleyes:

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

For once I can say, at least our team thought of the "game breaking" design of this year's game.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Ha! Roboranglers are carrying-on their tradition with Texas-based robot names. The 1997 version of "Batman and Robin" had several places of filming, including Texas. The conspiracy continues.... (ignore last year's "Vader")

Source: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0118688/...s?mode=desktop

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

254 has been watching this over and over for a half hour now. The autonomous Rube Goldberg machine is pretty cool. Great job, hope to get a match with y'all at Champs.

Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Great concept, but have a few questions.
What happens when/if another bot sucks the tether in and gets tangled, or cuts the tether in their chain drive?
Secondly what size wires are run in the tether?? Thinking about 30' of run, would have to be pretty thick to handle the current draw.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Is this when we start the "omg mentors and engineers!!!" part of the thread?

Oh, have we successfully avoided that? :D

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Then batman will work alone.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

And the alliance loses a HP station.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I think it would be better if you didn't even bring it up.... :p

On another note, nobody has commented on the lack of the signature 148 heavy metal that we get every year, and I miss it :(

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Can't another robot push Robin out of the way?

I can't see the details, but if you only had pneumatics on Robin, with some pre-charged air, you'd only need to run solenoid control across the tether...

Edit: Ok it's obviously motor powered, but still a thought, if you're worried about that sort of thing.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I showed this to the senior members of my team and we were in shock and awe and indirectly agreed that if this bot was on our alliance we'd just stand and watch instead of drive.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Honestly, is this even high school anymore.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

No its Jupiter :rolleyes:

But seriously 148 this is amazing and hopefully we will be at champs to see you guys again!

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

This is truly amazing. Way to go Team 148. I love the creativity and every aspect of your robot.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

If you watch the video around 0:28-0:30, bottom half of frame, you can see 148 easily grabbing one of the horizontal Recycling Containers.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Huh, didn't even notice part 3 in the back there, thought they were just nicely arranged...my mind has been blown all over again.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Watch yet again, because part 3 also appears from about 0:07-0:08 in the upper left quadrant.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I'd rather this thread not turn into either
a) picking apart the robot's potential flaws (ex: But what if they drive over the tether?) I'm sure 148 has these figured out to the best of their ability.
or
b) "That robot was built by engineers not students"

If you really watch the reveal video a number of times and look hard at the individual mechanisms, they're not that complicated.
Batman has an arm, a short elevator, and a roller collector.
Robin has a short elevator and a little door mechanism.
"Catwoman" has some way to fall over and the spool that pulls the containers in.

The little engineering details that make this robot so great are what I marvel over. It's not complicated conceptually, but the whole thing is a brilliant, elegant solution to this years game.

If the 148 machines don't go far in divisional eliminations, I'd be very,very, surprised.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

It really hasn't though. So far the general consensus seems to be in awe.
But yes I do agree. It's an amazing design and I'm actually kind of jealous.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

It is a very cool set of bots, but I wonder how it well it will work with other bots. If it could work by itself then I think it is great. Can the tethers take being run over? Just feels like it might be a nightmare to try and work around losing a HP station and the tethers.

That said that is an amazing bot... bots?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Honestly I think that they had perfect music this year. Lyrics fit how game breaking there robot(s) is (are).

So it this one robot or three?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Is there any particular reason this is on Vimeo? So that it doesn't get blocked on mobile or something?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Ok, it's been an hour, and I can form words again. This is a delightful, amazing, and elegant solution to the game problem. I was expecting to see tetherbots, flopbots, and creative use of the absence of maximum horizontal dimensions this season. I was not expecting to see them in a single robot, combined with a suspension-bridge three-container, three-tote-stack auton. :eek: Wow.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Wait, so there isn't heavy metal in the reveal video?!? The robot is insane as well! Good luck with that tether!

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

This link got posted to reddit, it got a little nasty in there. That may be why he's giving a warning.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

The song, if anyone was wondering, is Earthquake by Labrinth feat. Tinie Tempah.

Someone want to make an 'awesome reveal video song' Spotify playlist?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Absolutely amazing. Every personal thought I had for many bots....& all in one tethered beauty.

I am not in any way being critical (please understand this).....I actually wanted to build (fabricate onsite at a regional by many teams), a pr. of shared clamp on 3 RC retrievers just like your flop bot pc. only (about 5 lbs. each), to attach to any robot that can simply only drive forward into the auto zone. End result the same (only many teams contributing COTS parts, building them together on Thursday morning, on a single design at the event only to stay within the rules, having each participating bot weighed w/ the fabricated part, then adding by movable clamps the shared community part as needed, where needed). Looks like the only way to even the score now is to follow through and work that plan.

A real tricky question though....As I understand it based on the ruleset, your entire 3 robots ~all 3 alliance team's bots (& all 3 pcs in 148's robot case, that are all tethered together, plus the other 2 full bots), must be in the Auto Zone at the end of the auto period in order to qualify for the actual robot set points. How can you accomplish this?....Or can you already, & you just did not show it in the video? (Remember, that auto zone is a volume, I see the part parked and tethered at the HP Tote Chute (yes, tote chute...LOL), station as being out of that zone). Am I parsing the rule too much? Or have you already asked a Q&A I have yet to see? Wouldn't your entire ROBOT have to be contained in the auto zone to receive those robot set points?

Or, are you just going to forgo the minor robot set points, in exchange for a great Stacked Tote set and the RC set? Among the other absolutely amazing Team 148 robot capabillities?

(Scared now that I asked that set of questions with nearly 48 Hours left...They still have time to work on that before bagging that beautiful 3 pc. beast).

I can certainly see Team 1678's 4 shelf RC snatcher, and Team 148's Batman, Robin & The Gotham Bridge RC Flop Bot, and just 1 more really fast Tote collector & stacker (I also heard news this weekend, and saw something about an amazing Israeli robot without a drivetrain that stacks & delivers tote stacks very fast from working nothing but the Landfill zone, among other super fast stackers), and have imagined them taking home pretty blue World Champs Banners already.

Great job Team 148! I knew we would see some really great "Out Of The Box" and into the tethered bot arena ideas this year. To get all that under 120 Lbs and in the transport config. is amazing! Be proud, show it LOUD! (If those tethers get chopped are you "leaving parts on the field?"
________________________
Now you are forcing me to actually re-submit (and work a lot harder to get the idea accepted somehow and actually done), to others my original idea of community built clamp on RC winch additions fabricated at a regional (since we will both be at the LV Regional and will compete with, and against 148 often)....At least for that RC snatcher next to the golden totes takes care of 2 things at once ~ Cans out of the way and in the zone, and Yellow Totes clear to stack & deliver. It would be the only way many others could possibly compete against your amazing 2015 bot in Auto!

Staying out of the way is easy if (You Are Lucky Enough To Be), on an alliance with them...You work only the landfill to scoring platform areas. You will win with them very often if you do...As long as you stay away from their tethers...no E-Stop is necessary whatsoever.

We will certainly look forward to competing with you...And no doubt fear competing against you....But, will work toward attempting to improve to defeat the amazing early results of 148's hard work and super brilliant design and congratulate your teams' reaching for perfection in 2015 in Recycle rush!

Now, please tell the secret to getting others to accept such an outlandishly & absolutely positively fantastic great Design Idea Set...Please Pray Tell? WOW.:D

It is shaping up to be a great FRC year! Thank you GDC.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

That doubled over insertion of the litter into an RC right above the HP wall is also a thing of absolute beauty! Great simple solution to a tough litter chute feeding problem if it is actually allowed. (I see arguments w/ that one coming though perchance). Though personally, I cannot forsee any real safety issues with it whatsoever myself, but I don't make or interpret the rules....Was it Q&A approved yet? (It is being field introduced over the alliance wall without help beyond the HP who is fully outside the field at all times...who really cares how.

If you do not use up every game pc. (and prove my earlier "by Week 3 prediction" of someone using at least once all their game pcs up), in at least 1"Q or Playoff round" during the Week 1 Dallas Regional, I will be amazed & slightly disappointed. I see you, possibly 987, and a very fast stacker doing so, almost without a doubt.

Can you alone get all 30 grey totes inside and stacked by your lonesome in teleop? 5X6 Capped & Littered stacks delivered alone is a VERY, VERY high bar? Though a great bot at the other HP station could possibly relieve 2 stacks from you easy & maybe 1 more from the landfill. And, a great Landfill stacker might be able to get 3~4 from there (if they can handle those upside down totes too. Way too much of a positive thinker I am though.

I must go sleep, but the Dynamic Bat Trio is certainly on the brain. Again, Congrats Robowranglers!

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I actually think even if their tether died to Robin (Guessing that is the HP Tote Receiving portion)...That many bots already seen, could still attempt to pick up lots of short 2 tote stacks from it at least if the default gate position was gate down, if the power is accidentally cut to it. So still probably not a loss of the human station...and a great HP too!

Rules say that a tethered bot in multiple pcs. is still 1 Robot this year folks. (As long as it enters & leaves the field in the Transport config. and disassembly (setup), & assembly (departure), actions can each be accomplished in about 1 minute each. (Making that work is the trick they accomplished VERY WELL). "Rube Goldberg would be very proud." What an RG Machine.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Actually, considering the nature of the game, it's totally possible to use up every single game piece in this game. In fact, it might be worth it not to throw litter on Einstein to avoid giving up points.
That's actually crazy. There are a limited number of points. Can there be a tie!?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Good Game guys....good game....

no but seriously....amazing work....thing of absolute beauty....

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Great job!

I don't see any issue with the tether and alliance partners, as long as the alliance partners can keep to the other side of the field. And it appears that the tether is quite robust, and it would take some effort to pull it into a robot.

Thanks for sharing!

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

You mean what happens at about 0:30? There seems that there would be a strategic advantage to doing it. They are one of those teams that would not do something unless it gives a strategic advantage.

There is also something interesting going on with the LITTER at about 0:22 in the lower left pane. A Human Player with amazing aim?

It looks like the Feeder Station piece builds neat stacks of two, probably to save time so that the main robot doesn't have to wait for the Human Player.

I suspect that they will be more worried about running over their own tether since the ideal match up for them would be a robot that takes care of the Landfill area and the Step and a third robot that uses the other feeder station. I am sure they have thought this through very thoroughly before committing and cutting metal.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Coworkers don't understand why I'm crying looking at my computer screen... just wow.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

"Paul, that same song has been playing on loop for like an hour now." - My Roommate

College is weird because there isn't anyone to nerd out about this stuff with.

Seriously, this is a really cool design, I could never have imagined such a system to work within the 120 pound limit, but this is incredible. Mind shedding a little light on how y'all shaved off so much weight from each mechanism?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Look harder :) There are a number of college level competitions that draw very similar crowds to what you'll find in FIRST, as well as just a lot of other "Maker" students that enjoy building. I didn't have FIRST in my area when I was in high school, and didn't feel like I was about to "nerd out" with others until college.

OP: Amazing looking robot. With the large transport configuration this year, teams have been given more real estate to push the boundaries of strength/weight. I know we build many things 5-10x stronger than it needs to be, and are less limited by weight than overall complexity and time. To see a team get so much robot (physically) into the 120lb limit shows a heck of a lot of optimization went into it... carving away every ounce of un-needed weight, and a lot of thought on the minimum parts needed to accomplish your design. I'd love to see a recap of that design process after championships if you'd be willing to share specifics.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Wow. I need to get my team off 8/20 aluminium so we can build lighter weight robots.

Seems like in Autonomous, they are conceding no robot set, and are pretty close to a RC set by themselves.

My concern is that the "hooks" on the RC are being supported by the RC at the beginning of the game. That is a no-no.
https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Question/...-to-question-9

They might want to consider:
Alliance partners take out RC1 and RC2, and their corner bot dropping a hook into RC3.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Do a frame-by-frame starting at 0:52. There's a white piece of something falling down in front of the girl on the left. I'm guessing something's connected with fishing line, and they go fishing for the RC's at the start of teleop. You can kinda also see a shimmer of something dropping down on the far-right RC as Robin lowers its arms.

Technically the hooks can be in the RC holes, even touching the RC, so long as they're just dangling there. It's marvel to see.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Ahh, yes. I see that now.

Now, to set that all up in 60 seconds or less.

Note: I did tell our programmers to make an autonomous option to do nothing. So, we would make a great alliance member.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Now the question becomes, who do they pick for their Championship winning alliance...

I could only dream :D

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

They pick 148, and 148, and their back up bot will be 148.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

12 robots isn't an alliance. It's an army.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Are the Robowranglers showing us the beginning of the robot apocalypse?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

So are we assuming 148 is sponsored by SkyNet and we just don't know about it?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Isn't this a violation of G27. I'm I missing something?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

What is it contacting outside the field of play?

I can't see what would be violating this rule

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

When inserted into the Recycling container, the human player is, at some point, touching the noodle while the robot has control of it through its control of the Recycling container. And since the litter is not in the litter chute, it's not exempt from this rule. This would be an interesting one for the Q&A, I don't know which way they would rule on it.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

The robot is in control of the RECYCLING CONTAINER. The LITTER is outside of the field. As the LITTER is inserted into the RECYCLING CONTAINER it is in contact with the RECYCLING CONTAINER.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I agree with Jon. It is a violation of G27.

Once the Litter is held by the RC, the Litter is being controlled by the Robot (indirectly through the RC). Since the Litter is not in the Litter Chute, they are not entitled to an exception to the rule.

Now, if they can release the Litter prior to the Litter being held by the RC, then they may be able to avoid the "control" issue. However, they wedge the litter into the RC, and that requires simultaneous touching of the litter by the Human Player, and being controlled by the RC.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

According to this Q&A here they are good to go.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I would say that that particular question--though not expressly stated--referred to litter going through the Litter Chute, not over the wall. The Litter Chute is an exception to G27.

I will also point out Q141. So there are multiple rules to be very very careful with--G1, G4, and G27 could potentially all apply.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

WOW!

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

That's incredible! Congratulations on designing an amazing machine--I can't wait to see it in some actual matches.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

___________

It is very hard to see (I had to slow everything down and catch it just right to see, over & over & over again). They have them supported From Batman~Robin I believe just above the 3 RC openings...At least that is what I think I finally saw (both Robots move just as the auto period starts to trigger it, and then the Gotham city Bridge Flop Bot does its work...Rube Goldberg Machine to the max)...And I must have run that video 300 times last night alone to see all there was to see.

*And yes...I also saw her throw that perfect shot w/ the blue Litter pc. dead perfect into that stacked bin also. It only took 18 tries to see those 3 frames correctly!

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Which is why I asked last night earlier in the thread. And why I stated that. The robot does control the Stack via the Robin bot section (or even the Batman Bot section if inserted while the forks control the RC, ergo the RC is a part of the stack or not (either way a robot controls the game pc. during the insertion of the litter), and the litter is NOT inserted in the RC via the Litter Chute, so the exception to the rule does not seem to apply if parsed logically...But, I didn't yet know if there was a recent Q&A dealing with it. The rule as originally written, had a later "exception made", we have seen exceptions to exceptions in the past....Will be interesting to see where it goes. Squeeky wheel...meet grease. Look where "The Littering Agreement" went back in weeks 1&2. (Up down, around the corner....Down the street, across the nation, and ended up nearly in a different country...No longer in contract format!) It just simply does not even exist. Though there is a possibility, now just in a different form. We may agree NOT TO LITTER!

I wasn't about to rain on a certainly fantastic parade (asking questions and hopefully getting some answers was what I was after), as tradeoffs are always necessary when attempting the seemingly or nearly impossible.

Team 148 deserves all the accolades they receive on that amazing tethered robot contraption. They cannot possibly fail now...They tried no matter what! We'd certainly be very happy to insert their litter at the Championships!

And so would many others.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

at 0:21 for anyone wondering :)

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

That is... beautiful. I really do love 148's videos. No matter how proud I may be of the robot that we've just stuffed into a crate, 148's videos always make me want to do just a little bit more next year.

And they're also pretty cool to show to friends, "See THAT... we play the same game, in the same league as THEM."

(It helps my friends understand why we lose matches, sometimes....)

BUT... before anyone starts handing out Championship Banners just yet, my observation over the years is that three robots executing "conventional" strategy perfectly, tend to have the edge over unique or unconventional machines. If there were a machine to upset that observation, this might well be it, but there are many other machines that I'm looking forward to seeing yet!

Jason

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

There are many seemingly conflicting Q&A answers concerning the issue. Q141 seems to conflict with the following G27 and the 2 allowed exceptions.

But, Q141 asks the specific question (Is it legal to feed litter over the alliance wall to a robot). And the answer was published on 1-13-2015.

The G27 rule though as currently written: As of 2-16-2015 8:30 PM MST
____________________________________
G27 ROBOTS and anything they control (except for LITTER in the LITTER CHUTE and TOTES in the TOTE CHUTE), may not contact
anything outside the FIELD.
VIOLATION: Offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.
____________________________________

Is it possible that Q141 could be true and G27 not violated in any way (numerous possibilities there)...Absolutely YES! And it IS LEGAL...Which was the question.

If, the human player legally feeds the Litter over the alliance wall to an RC, HP stays out of the field, and does not contact a Robot or anything controlled by a robot on the field.

IE: Robot stacks totes, w/ RC on top of Totes. Robot backs off stack (Totes and stack no longer controlled by robot), and HP feeds Litter into RC...Easy Peasy! No G27 Penalty. Or, HP hangs Litter over alliance wall, stays out of the field, robot below, HP drops litter into robot, and litter does not contact robot while still off the field. Again, easy. No G27 Penalty. There are others possible.

It could be easily argued LOGICALLY & SPECIFICALLY, even without any human contact (impossible to do without throwing it or dropping it over the alliance wall), that If the Litter is OUTSIDE the Field when inserted (it is an "ANYTHING" outside the field, or AN ITEM REFERRED TO, the litter is not IN THE LITTER CHUTE, is not a TOTE IN THE TOTE CHUTE, and the RC will be the "ANYTHING a robot controls!"

Is it (LITTER), Anything outside the field....Yes.
Is the Robot controlling the RC...Yes.
Is it in 1 of the 2 exempted spots (LITTER in LITTER CHUTE, or TOTE in TOTE CHUTE)?.....No.
Is it exempt....Not under the Rule G27 (and it's included 2 specific exceptions of course).
Does a Q&A conflict...Absolutely YES & NO (See Q141! and its associated answer).
__________________________________________________ _
Q. Is it legal for a human player to feed a pool noodle to a robot from above the wall rather than the litter chute?
2015-01-12 by FRC3339A.

There are no rules that would prohibit this, but special attention should be paid to G4: "DRIVE TEAMS may not extend any body part into the FIELD during the MATCH" and G1: "ROBOTS whose operation ... is dangerous or unsafe are not permitted."
2015-01-13 Published by GDC
__________________________

There is a Chicken & Egg type of problem here. (Sort of).

As I remember it, since there was quite a stir dealing mainly, I believed at the time, with those wanting their robots to contact or receive totes from the tote chutes directly, and many had already chosen designs and started building them, and G27 had no exceptions at that time (squeeky wheels got the grease via the 2 exceptions being made via the updated G27......(I would need to research it fully), but I remember that the G27 exceptions were a part of an update that was I believe, made after the referenced 1-8-2015 and 1-13-2015 Q&A dates! Oh Boy.

As I remember it G27 originally was printed as below (I will later look at the original FRC 2015 Password Protected Game Manual to confirm it),....without the 2 exceptions later added. (This caused a crap storm concerning those that wanted totes delivered directly to their robots, the 2 exceptions were later added). Squeeky wheels got greased!
______________________________________________
G27 ROBOTS and anything they control, may not contact
anything outside the FIELD.

VIOLATION: Offending ROBOT will be DISABLED.
_____________________________________________

The RULE(s) trumps even Q&A answers I believe....Right?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Q. Can a human player hold on to litter while it is simultaneously touching the recycle bin ?
2015-01-08 by FRC2081

A. Yes, there are no rules prohibiting that.

That question left "the ROBOT, and anything the ROBOT controls" out of the equation completely. Answer is correct.

See Stack (robot not touching the stack or RC), you can even do so, even if a robot controls the RC...As long as you do so through the Litter Chute....They added that exception later to G27.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Don't mean to rain on your parade, but it appears to start sliding out immediately before that clip ends.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

The Q and A states that there are no rules prohibiting human players from holding litter while the robot touches the RC. However, there are rules which, under certain circumstances, prohibit this action. The game manual is the higher authority in this case.

In this case, the robot is controlling an RC and that RC is touching a noodle that is outside the field. The exception for litter/tote in the chute applies to what the robot is controlling, not what is outside the field.

As the rules are written, it seems pretty clear that this move is illegal.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Vimeo doesn't seem working on my computer. Could you post this video on Youtube as well please (if you have a channel)?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

There's a chance that this could get overturned by FIRST as presenting a "hazard on the field" with some robots (especially with the mechanum wheels) not being able to go over the tether.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

And that would be a huge shame because it takes a lot of guts and smarts to pull off something like this.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Considering the GDC made an update to the blue box in R2 specifically addressing tethered robots. I highly doubt this design will be "overturned".

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

No way, there is no other robot around but your alliance mates and you can ask them to stay out of the way (just like any other game).

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

FYI, G27 concerns can stand down. Q&A clarified that a human loading a pool noodle into a Container over the wall is considered to be controlling the Litter until the loading is completed. Q404.



Error 404: Penalty not found.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

How many cans of CodeSpode were consumed during the making of Batman and Robin?

Amazing bot(s). It will be cool to watch at competition.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I...wow. I am dumbfounded.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

After watching the video over the past few days, I am still relatively speechless. About the only thing I can say is Thanks. Thanks for continuing to inspire me (and probably the rest of the FIRST world) with your creations.

Hope to get a chance to see this in person.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Best thing I read all day.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Someone may have mentioned it already, but I'm betting that their human player is going to be the one controlling the stacker. I never understood why the human player was allowed to use the controller this year . . . I guess FIRST and 148 were way ahead of me.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Oh my! Great robot for a great team. Cant wait to see it at Dallas!!!!

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Good thing we didn't remove the big pair of SCISSORS we mounted to the front of our bot.....

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Unless their HP is staying in the driver's station (or near) and potentially letting someone else load the stacker and the litter, nope. There's a bit of a distance limitation, T6-1. That being said, if they're in the side station no problemo.

Though, given that it's 148, I'd be surprised if the stacker wasn't mostly automated anyway.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

This looks awesome!!!

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Holy zipties! How the hell is anyone going to beat that?! :ahh: :yikes:

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

I don't see how a 3 "conventional" robot alliance can beat 148 assuming we're talking elims here. Usually what you are talking about comes down to the fact top seeds have a weak 3rd bot, so 3 solid bots have an advantage. Well, in this case now it would just be 3v3 and 148's 3rd bot just has to do enough to break the tie.

I've only really followed other bots on CD since 2010. Are there any other examples of one robot doing the job of 2 elite robots simultaneously?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

148 can't get the robot set points in autonomous

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

They don't need them.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Maybe, maybe not. What if one of their alliance members accidentally knocks down a stack? Then maybe those four points come into play.

Anything can happen. It's why the matches are played. :D

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

148's advantage is the HP stacker.

There will be other singular robots that get 3 RC and a tote stack in auto. 148's advantage comes from being able to place stacks while their also creating another stack.

148 is beatable it will be the job of whom ever isn't on their elims alliance to build the right team to beat them.

Unless they change from the video 148 does not get the RC set and they CAN'T get the robot set so that's 12 points they won't be able to get. Is up to you to make sure your alliance can get those 12 and then at least go point for point them them the rest of the match. And that really only matters in the finals.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

this is what I implied by saying they are effectively 2 robots, which was just repeating what other people already said.
While their auto is incredible to watch, it is the prospect of how many max stacks they can make by themselves that is intriguing to me...

would you bet on them not being able to get the RC set? For the sake of argument, let's say they decide to just scrap hook bridge and floppy, and their alliance decides against the RC set because reasons. Don't you think they will more than make up for those 12 points?

I’m a little shocked that, unless I missed a post here, no one has speculated to their scoring ability? In a year with no defence?

I’ll start: I’m going with all 30 alliance station totes making 5 x 6 tote stacks with >=3 of those with a noodled RC on top is their “no problem” baseline. 28 auto + 30x2 totes + 3 n6RCs = 178?

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

It's funny that you're assuming their baseline will be 5 6 stacks, based on a video that is sped up.

That being said, I would not be surprised if they do 5 6 stacks regularly.

Their max scoring ability is almost irrelevant come elims, unless they are able to pick partners who can acquire recycling cans off the platform in auto (but it should put them in great position to seed high enough to pick those teams).

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

Their strategy is brilliant. Robin is always stacking totes from the HP. While that's happening, Batman is either picking up a can to put on top of Robin's stack or moving a full stack with a can to a scoring platform. By the time either of Batman's objectives are complete, Robin is surely already done with a 6 stack which allows this dynamic duo's productivity to skyrocket. The autonomous with catwoman(the winch) is also a brilliant tactic, as it puts the cans in an accessible position for Batman to grab them quickly and stack them ontop of Robin's 6 stack.

It's difficult to say how many stacks they can effectively do in a 2:15 period on their own, but I'd say that 148 will be better than most combinations of 2 robots and in some cases, even an entire alliance.

The thing that amazes me the most is how simple the designs of each of their three robots are and how potentially "game-breaking" this really is.

There is no doubt in my mind that Team 148 will be going far.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

This is very true. If an alliance grabs all four cans from the center, giving them a total of seven, and makes 4 six stacks with cans and noodles, they'll get 168 points. Making these four stacks requires 24 totes, almost all that are in the feeder station, but I don't think this is too unreasonable for a good alliance.

If the opposing alliance has only three cans, and they make three six stacks with noodles and cans, they'll get 126 points. To get even with the other alliance, they need to score 42 more points, which is 21 more totes to stack. That means they'll have to take take totes from the landfill, and have a total of 7 stacks on the field, 3 six stacks with noodles + cans, 3 six stacks, and 1 3 stack.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

You know what happens when you make assumptions about assumptions... I believe we are stacking donkeys??

The assumption is based on 135 sec / 30 totes. I'll bet that Robin and the HP are limited by the speed of the operation of the chute door. Yes, chute door. I've not played with these, but it looks like a 3 sec/tote is reasonable. They've always looked well practiced in the past, so I'll also assume that Robin won't be spending much time waiting for Batman to move out a stack, and this would give them 9 sec/move out. These estimates would also give them 18 sec/RC to acquire and noodle. I didn't account for stack placement, but this still seems reasonable.

Re: Robowranglers 2015: Batman & Robin
 

We appreciate the amazing feedback from the FIRST community. We’ve been humbled by the overwhelming response from everyone. We would love to answer a few frequently asked questions about our robot(s).

How do you grab the recycling containers legally?
-The mechanism is supported between Batman and Robin with a string and not by the cans. With our interpretation of the rules, we believe that the mechanism is legal because it is not supported in any way by game pieces.

What is transport config?
- Batman and Robin hug with Alfred in between.


What is the combined weight?
-118.8 pounds

Can it setup in under 60-seconds?
-We were also worried about this, but our Drive Team has been practicing to make sure we meet the required time. With this practice we have no doubts about our drive team being able to set-up in less than 60-seconds.

Does your tether interfere with robots?
-After extensive testing we have come to a conclusion that our tether does not interfere with other robots. To ensure that there is no complications with our partners, we will have a detailed pre-match discussion about our tether and if they are comfortable playing with us.

Your pool-noodling seems illegal?
We weren't sure either. Thankfully the Q&A clarified:
http://goo.gl/0bCuu1

What intake wheels are you using?
-4” Sure-Grip Neoprene Drive Roller Wheels. We ordered ours from McMaster.

How long is the tether? What is it made of?
-25ft Batman to Robin, 17ft Robin to Alfred. It is made of VEXpro 12AWG Silicone wire covered by PET expandable braided sleeving.

How much does the tether weigh?
-6 pounds total for both tethers.

Who drives what robot? Does your Human Player drive Robin?
-The driver drives Batman and Operator drives Robin. Our Human player just human plays.

What is the 3rd robot called?
-The team has decided to name the third robot Alfred.


Where was your inspiration?
-We take inspiration from everywhere, but in particular some of the "out of the box" robots from the VEX Robotics Competition heavily inspired us. Tethered robots have been very successful in that competition for a few years.

Are the three recycling containers still attached to the winch at the end of auto?
-No, the "grappling hooks" are spring loaded and pull free when the recycling containers reach the end of travel.

We would like to thank everyone again for their questions and amazing feedback. I hope that these answers shed some light on our robot and design process. We look forward to competing at the Dallas and Las Vegas regionals and at the World Championship in St. Louis. If you are attending one of these events, please stop by our pit. The other students and I would love to answer any questions about our robot(s).