Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

We are thinking of adding some drone lessons into our robotics curriculum for next year and starting to do our research. We are starting a robotics class within our school day and thought teaching STEM through drones would be an interesting approach to add to an FTC or VEX curriculum.

We are looking for anyone out there who is building them in a classroom setting or has any lessons available to share. Any suggestion, ideas, or thoughts are very welcome. Just thought I would ask the best source I know of for help. Thanks for all you do.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

What do you mean by drone?

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Remotely controlled flying copters. .... Quadcopters

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Bluejackets - if you are looking at building quadcopters in your robotics class, please PM me. Becker is looking at curriculum for our own robotics class and this came up in a recent discussion.

I know that you are going to be in Duluth next weekend - I will try to be there to meet up with you.

Great to see C-I has a strong FRC team!

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

I think they mean a monotonous musical note http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_%28music%29 :rolleyes:

But really, I'd assume quadcopters and hexacopter style drones. To get started and just gain a bit of experience why not pick up a Parrot AR Drone? Quite honestly you'd have a hard time building a reliable quadcopter for less money, and you can do a few hacks to this one to make it more programmable. http://dronehacks.com/

You might even want to include a unit on terminology and discuss how the term "drone" compares to the term "UAV" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unmanned_aerial_vehicle Both include fixed wing aircraft as well as rotary, and there is a lot of stuff you can do with the fixed wing planes as well.

Personally I don't have a lot of experience with building rotary UAVs with students, but fixed wing aircraft can be reasonably priced. I did tethered electric airplanes with my junior students and radio controlled "foamies" with my seniors.

Jason

Jason

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

We started an RC flyers club on campus, and are currently building a heavy lift hexicopter for our Video Productions class.

If I had it to do all over again I would have had them start much smaller, like a blackout, or one of the many arduino based quads...We also have a number of micro Hubsan x4s...$40 on amazon for training pilots.

The hex has flown a few times...Suffered a major crash last week, (Got lost in the sun and flown into a tree and then fell onto a concrete walkway from about 40 feet up...)and due to lunar new years won't be fixed until late march, maybe April...

I think part of my issue is with the fact that the kids were really working from scratch with very little support, and they didn't/weren't able to do their research properly which has led to some issues.

Here is a link to the shopping list for the hex that we built. After the last crash we will have spent about 2K on the project through a grant.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing

Edoga

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

If you are teaching best to get the terminology down for the students...

A drone can be any unmanned, remotely/autonomously guided vehicle, in the air on land on or under water.

A UAV is always an airborne vehicle (Unmanned Aerial Vehicle)

A Quadcopter is a helicopter with 4 rotors. It might be unmanned, it might be manned

So teaching DRONES would include air, land and water unmanned remotely/autonomously controlled vehicles... I think you are really talking about teaching "UAV Drones that are specifically unmanned Quadcopters."

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

I love this idea, as I have been personally building both recreational and commercial (making money by filming for real estate) and I know it is a great way to learn and is also very fun. I would recommend giving www.hobbyking.com a look as they should have everything you need to get started, with very inexpensive parts that are quite good. I would highly recommend their KK2.1.5 board, which is very stable and only $30. Be sure to have the kids learn on a flight simulator first, as these things are not the easiest to fly without gps equipment which costs an awful amount of money. Also, there is a vast database of knowledge on forums like rcgroups.com and also on flitetest.com's articles, which have far more information than I could ever suggest on a CD post. Good luck, and above all, Happy Flying!

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Sweet, this is an awesome idea. I have been trying to get somthing like this started. I have gotten to the point were i might be helping some people build some quad copters for hobby hobby/fun. But would lave to start a class or something.


What size/type are you planning on building? Are you planning on doing something with FPV or just line of sight flying?

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

I am absolutely infatuated with quad copters, I own a Hubsan x4 and hopefully can upgrade to something along the lines of a DJI Phantom in the future. This would be a brilliant idea to implement in the classroom. Also, when pitching the curriculum to the school, I would recommend trying to avoid the word "drone" as it tends to have a negative connotation among those who are ill-informed of their multi-purpose and solely focus on their militaristic uses.

My strongest recommendation would be to buy one or two of the WL v911 single rotor helicopters because similar to most intermediate quad copters, it's 4 channels. (Throttle, Pitch, Roll, and Yaw) Also, the v911 is fairly durable in my experience, which means you can afford to have several mistakes. Hence, if you can master flying the v911, most if not all 4 channel quads should be an absolute breeze to handle. Moral of the story; start cheap and work your way up, my friend's uncle bought a 300 dollar quad (AR Drone) and flew it right into a lake :P

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

I'm actually taking a seminar at the University of Minnesota this semester that involves building and modifying a quadcopter for a competition. It's run by the professor who runs the Community College Quadcopter Competition. We're using a Parallax ELEV-8 V2, which is a relatively high-grade DIY quadcopter. It's been very interesting and I've learned a lot, but there are quite a few kinks to work out, and I'd highly recommend that the teacher has experience troubleshooting wireless transmitters and standard electrical stuff (though this isn't as much of an issue if that teacher is also a FIRST mentor).

If you want to see what my class consists of, you can check out the course page here (apologies for the Aerospace department website still being stuck in the 90's). Feel free to email me if you'd like a student's perspective. In my opinion there's nothing we're doing (time or skill wise) that couldn't be done by high school students meeting in a daily or block class.

Another thing: I'd highly recommend training the students with cheap "toy" quadcopters before letting them fly anything large. Also mandated rotor protection will save you a lot of pain.

EDIT: It's come to my attention that the link to the course page isn't accessible to non-UMN students. If you'd like to see a syllabus or course schedule, PM me instead.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Using model aircraft for commercial purposes is currently against FAA regulations. There are proposed regulations that just came out to allow commercial use, but those aren't approved yet.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Actually it is not illegal. The FAA has only come out with Proposed Rules and Regulations. These are not legally laws and therefore cannot be enforced as laws. In the late 40s or early 50s the FAA got a law passed through congress that transferred all regulating authority to community based organizations, What has now become the AMA (Academy of Model Aeronautics) This body has not as of yet come out with and rules about commercial use of Drones/UAVs.


Disclaimer: this post is the result of my research. If i am wrong somebody please correct me.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

According to these links, you need FAA approval for commercial use.
http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/?newsId=76240
https://www.faa.gov/uas/faq/
The AMA only governs hobby aircraft.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Hmmmmm...... Interesting to know, makes me wonder how some people are able to fly for documentary companies and real-estate agents?

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

They either don't know the law/regulation, or they ignore it. Or, in some cases, they have a waiver. Incidentally, rules and regulations--once confirmed--can be, and are, enforced as laws, if they're issued by a government agency. See "ITAR".

And Chris is right: AMA doesn't touch the commercial stuff, just hobby. If you're flying "commercial", as far as I know (not very) AMA doesn't cover any "incidents", unlike if you're flying hobby in accordance with their safety rules.


OP, there is one thing that you will need to include, probably as the first item in the class: Safety. The plane the props rotate in is known as "the plane of death" to some, because if a prop breaks for some reason, everything in that plane for some distance is at risk of getting hurt. Even on a quadcopter...

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

As of right now, there is no official law governing the use of model aircraft for commercial purposes, as their previous regulation was revoked after the comment period. The FAA proposed new ruling which you can find on Flitetest's facebook page. However, these are just a draft and as of now it is perfectly legal to use model aircraft for aerial photography.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

At this point the government has their heads up there bums. It is practically impossible for someone to spy with a drone, you cannot have enough control over the camera to create the proper exposure. Also people have to keeping using multi rotors commercially they have spent thousands of dollars to get one up in the air. if anyone disagrees with me please email me were will have a fun chat.
samueldobens@duxbury.k12.ma.us

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

No, they're just behind--there's a "hole" between the technology and what the regulations are right now (which does seem to be a continuing problem, but that's another topic of discussion). And durn right you can't spy with a drone, what do you think Global Hawk, Predator, and Reaper are up to right now? (If you want to argue that those aren't drones... good luck.)

I've seen drones operated not for commercial use--guess what, they're pretty good at their imaging. A decent one could take some video (or still frames) and maybe not see what book you were reading, but that you were reading one. Heck, I've heard of a standard camera mounted to the bottom of a single-rotor R/C chopper and sent out hunting for a fixed-wing R/C that had gone down in thick brush, and they found that R/C and brought it back.


Let me put it this way: Those people that spent the money knew (hopefully) that they were taking the risk that they would not be allowed to use their technology commercially for a while, if at all. It's called business venture, and capitalism. Maybe it pans out, maybe it doesn't. Sometimes, this stuff just happens.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

When i was saying drones can not spy i was meaning non government privately owned drones. What people are scared of is them hitting someone or getting close to your window. Predetors and drones of the like are meant to track military movement. They do not have the capability to get right up to your window. Before you start to defend the government that they are behind in regulations they do not know what they are regulating at all! have you even read them, To fly a model aircraft you have to be 17 or older give me a break! jamesmcip and i are better than 99% of people over 17 but it will make it illegal for us to fly. How is there a technological gap in that.
But if you would like to talk more please email me.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

You don't know what you are talking about. AMA membership for 18 and under is FREE for a full, open membership, and you don't even have to get that to fly a model aircraft. That sort of membership, BTW, is NOT covered by FAA, because it's "hobby", which as I understand the FAA is decidedly not regulating, instead having NGOs (see AMA) regulate.


And yes, a privately owned and flown drone could most certainly spy. The cameras are good enough, in about the $2K range, if you had a decent pilot. The safety matter is another matter that can be addressed by a good pilot--because a good pilot won't fly when it's unsafe.

You want an email? Allow me to explain why I choose to keep this public: Misinformation, not corrected, can be very dangerous. And you are not spreading correct information. I might not be either--so if someone does have the correct information, they can correct both of us.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

This^^

The current FAA rules are very clear; you may not use an unmanned aerial vehicle for commercial purposes, i.e. making money, without an FAA waiver. Read the links I posted above, as well as these:
http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/for-business-users/
http://knowbeforeyoufly.org/for-recreational-users/
http://www.faa.gov/news/press_releas...m?newsId=18295
http://www.faa.gov/regulations_polic...AS_Summary.pdf

The proposed rules, which won't become law until at least 2017, will allow for licensed operators to fly commercially if the aircraft is within sight and under 500 ft.

Back on the topic of this thread:
A class on Unmanned Aerial Systems ("drone" has a negative connotation) should include a unit on current and future rules and regulations for both commercial and hobby use.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

You obviously do not know how digital cameras work and what is best for FPV flight. To get a picture into a house is very difficult. The camera will expose to the side of the house. To fix this you can only have the window in the shot. which means getting really close, i can tell you right know there is not a single UAS out there that a normal person would not know was 6 feet outside there window. Once you are into the winnow area you then have to figure getting your focus on point the only camera i could think of the get the focus right would be the Nikon D4s with the Group area af but this camera will run you over 6000$ with out a lens. In my opinion go get a 100-400mm lens and get far away much more efficient. Or as bruce from Rcmodelreveiws/xjet would say Use a pole.

I am very thankful for the link to the AMA it reminds me to print of my ecard i got from them because i have been a member for three years.
if you are not familiar with the FAA regulation here you are. http://www.faa.gov/regulations_polic...AS_Summary.pdf
These are proposed not in full effect

Next time i would not try to argue with an avid RC pilot.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but those look like proposed regulations, not actual, enforced ones.

I'm not sure if this thread is the place to be discussing commercial drone usage-- the OP explicitly asked about creating a class on UAVs, and we seem to have migrated quite a bit from that topic.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

#1. (answering the bold) If it weren't for work, I'd be out there with you. As it is, I work long hours, and with robotics, have no free time. I was an AMA member for 5 years before letting my membership lapse due to lack of free time to fly. So, this goes both ways. Do. I. Make. Myself. Clear?



#2. We aren't talking FPV. You obviously don't have acquaintances who are into cinematography. One of the folks I know put a UAV, with camera, up--and while you can't quite make out the faces in the cars in one or two of the videos I've seen... it's pretty darn clear. And that drone is quiet, mostly. I've heard it outside with no walls. It's quiet--on the order of, I'm outside and hear a light buzz, then look up and go "hey, a drone". If your house were as soundproofed as some I've been in, or there was enough background noise, you probably wouldn't hear anything, probably wouldn't see anything unless you happened to look outside. This isn't a cheap UAV, but more of a mid-range as near as I can tell. 6'? Try more like 20'.

Oh, and #3. From the document YOU LINKED: This would be any non-commercial sUAS's as I recall. In other words, anything the AMA currently covers.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Well, I never thought I could create a flame war with one sentence in one post on Chief Delphi. Well, I suppose with the internet, anything is possible.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

This isn't, and we should get back on topic before this discussion get any more heated and gets this thread locked.
--------------
If I were taking a class in unmanned aerial vehicles, I would like to have the following covered in the curriculum:

• safety
• rules and regulations
• different controller options
• radio options
• how to choose motors and batteries
• how to choose a propeller
• differences in rotor count

EDIT: I found this course outline from HELIOCENTRIC EDUCATIONAL CONSULTING, LLC http://www.beoutside.org/New%20Folde...Curriculum.pdf that may be of interest to the OP.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Depending on the class overview, and how broad the curriculum wanted to get/how far into design, I would also include:
--Types and (potential) applications. (This would be more of a broad-spectrum fixed-wing/quad/hex and what each might be good for.) Maybe one class session.
--Basic aerodynamics (lift/drag/thrust/weight)--keep this one basic but it's foundational to the design of a UAV of any size or type. Maybe about 1-2 weeks worth, 2 if combined with the next item.
--Basic structural principles (stress/strain)--again, really basic, this is more of a foundation but you can use "rules of thumb" for sizing if needed.
--And make sure to include flying time. Nothing beats flying time. (On a simulator if necessary.)

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

If you're teaching the programming aspects as well, it would be useful (and interesting) to discuss how quadcopters (at least the ones I've seen) use PPM signals - though this only makes sense if students are somewhat familiar with pwm and analog. The controls behind quadcoptes are pretty fascinating but might be a little advanced (depending on what route you take).

Also, I'm going to second the safety thing, rogue copters are dangerous to more than just themselves.

Re: Teaching DRONES In a robotics class
 

Also another thing that would be good for a class (depending on how involved you want to get) is the tuning of the PIDs for the flight controllers. Some controllers have auto tune features, such as APM, but others like the KK2.1, naze 32, and cc3d require pid tuning.

While this is a very involved proses it will create a much better flying multirotor.