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Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas
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Watch this around 16:40... Agree or disagree, but you gotta have some respect for Adam Savage. I see and admire artwork in robots built each year... and appreciate teams taking the time for that. |
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas
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You are correct that intent is hard to view, I just interpreted what I saw on the field. I should have been more careful and worded my response with much more care. I think that 148 is a great team (with a great robot) and I am sure you guys will have a very successful season regardless of this setback. I just wish that everyone officiating the events remembered that these events are about celebrating the student accomplishments. While the rules need to exist in order to maintain the integrity of the game, it felt like things were being interpreted to an excessive standpoint at this event. I hope that FIRST/the GDC takes a hard look at Dallas and fixes the wording (and blue boxes) for future events. |
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas
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I want to commend 148 for handling this unfortunate situation with both professionalism and class. They didn't even need to comment here, but they took the time to clarify exactly what happened and help sort the facts from rumours. This was very impressive to me, especially at a time when it would be very easy for emotions to boil over. Looking back at the official statements made by JVN on behalf of the team, it makes clear to me why they've developed the reputation as being the most professional team in FIRST. Thanks to everyone who was directly involved and impacted by this situation for taking the time to help the rest of us understand this weekend. All six teams who played in the finals should be commended here. It's no wonder that four of them are known as being some the best teams in all of FIRST. I've a part of my fair share of controversial matches, on both the winning and losing side, and I understand just how not fun it can be. Quote:
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Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas
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I am in the same boat with you on this one. See my post in the Dallas 2015 thread. However, I do not believe more effective wording and blue boxes will fix the issue. In a game that I believed to be fairly "error-proof" from a referee perspective, the lack of a "Teams FIRST" mentality still results in decisions that negatively impact the teams and students involved. It is a larger issue than just better rules. A culture shift like this has to start from the top. -Mike |
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Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas
Hopefully everybody will understand that the missing 3rd bot in some of the early elimination rounds for both alliances was the result of a calculated effort by both alliances to develop additional capability to grab center cans to boost stack values...not to make additional room for the major bots on the alliances. With a greatly shortened time frame after qualifications and no break after alliance selections there was simply no time before the elimination rounds to complete the modification our 3rd partners to grab cans.
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Take G7 for example. Quote:
That's what I mean by putting the students first. Looking at each situation objectively and always asking "How will the students interpret my decision" and "how will my decision inspire students to keep achieving and pushing themselves" People who volunteer for FIRST are wonderful but sometimes it is easy to forget in that specific moment why we all spend so much time supporting this organization. |
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas
Having been on the sidelines, I overheard the conversations of several students on both alliances.
I heard cries of frustration and anger from the students on 118 and 624 when 148 and 987 were not allowed to enter the field and disabled respectively in the semifinals. I heard the same students feel excitement but disappointment at the same time when they won the 3rd finals match, wishing for an "actual" match, win or lose. Immediately afterwards, I saw students from 148 and 987 congratulate the winning alliance, and even assuring them their win was 100% deserved. Never before have I seen students on any robotics team act so professionally, and it is quite a stark contrast with the behaviors of many of the adults both at the event and on the forums of Chief Delphi and the chat of the livestream. It is quite unfortunate that many people chose to discredit the winning alliance with the fact that 987 was disabled. From my point of view, both alliances looked incredibly strong. The second seed had pulled off wins against the first seed in both the last semifinal and the first final, with all robots functioning. According to the announcer, Team 118 had even broken something on their robot and was running around with three wheels for the finals. It is unfair to the winners to write them off as victorious simply because 987 was disabled in the last match - 2613, a hidden part of their strategy, was also disabled. As shown in the second final, both 148 and 987 are incredible machines, and I am sure they will pull an even more dominating performance in Las Vegas. |
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas
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As a ref this year, and for last year, making calls can be hard. You want to make them fairly, but you also want the kids to enjoy their experience. I don't have a team anymore to actively "care" about, however that doesn't mean I don't care about teams in general. At the events I ref at we always err in favor of the team. Can't tell if they tripped slightly out of the driver's station? No foul. Need to adjust robot slightly to be within rules? Yes, we want everyone to be able to compete. |
Re: 2 v 3 in Dallas
We're missing the real world message that needs to be delivered. If your product is outside the customer's specifications, you might not hear about it from them until the purchase order is cut. To your competition.
Regards, Tim |
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