Chief Delphi - Nerf Co-op and Litter

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Re: Nerf Co-op and Litter

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56 (Post 1452912)

Seems crazy to me that a robotics competition would be set up in such a way that the contribution from the human player would be so close to that of the robot.

Remember the last time that human players played the game more than robots? Pepperidge farm remembers... 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1452083)

Play the game as is and see how you do.

They did, hence why they are now voicing concerns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boltman (Post 1452083)

Its like life , not perfect. You do your best with what you have as a team.

As much as I hate to say it, we don't have to stick with what we have, FIRST needs to have a fun and enjoyable program to keep teams around. If they keep making poor choices in game design teams will start leaving because they realize they don't have to deal with what they get.

Re: Nerf Co-op and Litter

Quote:

Originally Posted by themccannman (Post 1452933)

Remember the last time that human players played the game more than robots? Pepperidge farm remembers... 2009

This game is very reminiscent of that year that we shall never repeat... It could be changed, but will it?

Re: Nerf Co-op and Litter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Bottiglieri (Post 1452876)

Yes, everyone knew it would be an absolutely terrible game mechanic that adds nothing but frustration to the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1452883)

When something doesn't work on the robot, I don't put my hands in my pockets and go "aw shucks, too bad I can't change it."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kellen Hill (Post 1452908)

I wonder if you would have a different opinion if your stat line below was a little different.

<snip />

To give you credit, your human player was crazy good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56 (Post 1452912)

Seems crazy to me that a robotics competition would be set up in such a way that the contribution from the human player would be so close to that of the robot.

Guys, please don't be so disrespectful.

Noddle Jesus died for our wins.

- Sunny G.

Re: Nerf Co-op and Litter

Quote:

Originally Posted by ttldomination (Post 1453034)

Guys, please don't be so disrespectful.

Noddle Jesus died for our wins.

- Sunny G.

Praise be to Noodle Jesus, his score endures forever (or at least until the playoffs).

Re: Nerf Co-op and Litter

Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain (Post 1452883)

When something doesn't work on the robot, I don't put my hands in my pockets and go "aw shucks, too bad I can't change it."

So... instead you complain and try to get the rules changed? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Re: Nerf Co-op and Litter

I will confess that I'm biased in favor of noodle-throwing because my team's human player is extremely skilled. That being said, he didn't start off that way. Our team recognized the importance of litter points early in the season and Noodle Jesus practiced hard for six weeks. Whether or not litter is a good game mechanic, it can be scored in other ways, and every other team had the opportunity to develop a great human player just like we did.

I don't complain that coopertition is a broken game mechanic just because the #1 seed at our regional beat us in coop points. Instead, I admit that they addressed the challenge better than my team did.

Re: Nerf Co-op and Litter

Quote:

Originally Posted by bduddy (Post 1453044)

So... instead you complain and try to get the rules changed? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Right.

Let me make something clear here. We've ALL known from Day 1 that noodles would be thrown, not just stuffed into recycling containers. We've ALL known the characteristics of the noodles, and had the opportunity to run over/through/around them. We've ALL had the chance to develop an HP into an ace noodle thrower.

And we've all had the opportunity to understand all this, particularly after Week 0 events. And the same opportunity to respond to the game!

Now what I'm seeing/hearing/reading (after Week 1) is:
"We don't like the game we've been given. We really hate this aspect that we've known about since Day 1 and haven't complained about yet. The GDC should do something to discourage this aspect or change it so that it isn't used."

Do you guys realize what you sound like? You don't sound like professionals, folks. You sound like... well, let's just say that I wouldn't expect that kind of reaction out of adults (or even most high schoolers!).

Do I particularly like the litter element? Not really. It just kind of... I don't know, just doesn't quite seem to fit in. Am I going to ask for it to be changed? NO!!!! Why should Week 1 teams have to play a different game than Week 2, Week 3, Week 4, Week 5, and Week 6 teams? Or, to put it another way: Why should later weeks "get to" play a "better" game than Week 1 teams? Can you answer me that?

If you don't like the litter element, you can do your best to convince your partners not to play it--your opponents too, for that matter. I saw several matches at IE where one side or the other didn't send anything over the wall, a couple where neither side launched a single piece. Same for Coopertition, at that--talk to your opponent and let them know you won't be going for it. (Or don't talk to them, and don't respond if they put a couple up for you.)

Re: Nerf Co-op and Litter

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostmachine360 (Post 1453035)

Praise be to Noodle Jesus, his score endures forever (or at least until the playoffs).

Give him some credit... His 40 point perfect game was in the playoffs.

Re: Nerf Co-op and Litter

Quote:

Originally Posted by bduddy (Post 1453044)

So... instead you complain and try to get the rules changed? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.

Our robot didn't have any real issue with it. This might seem crazy but in addition to mentoring I am a stakeholder in FIRST and more specifically FRC. As someone who looks at FRC as both a program and a product, I think Recycle Rush with the current litter element makes this game a bad product.

I've never gone on record that it is a broken game mechanic or one that needs to be nerfed or otherwise fixed. I do recognize that it is a bad game mechanic and one the game design committee has allowed itself to adjust. These ideas are not always mutually exclusive, but in my case they are.