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-   -   Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver? (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135437)

mrnoble 03-03-2015 21:50
Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Some of the media students on our team are considering running a live feed on Twitch when we compete in Utah next week. Having never done anything like this before, I am interested in finding out the logistics.
  • [/
  • Is it even allowed? Are there restrictions (such as access to the internet through wifi) that would completely eliminate this possibility?
  • If allowed, what equipment will we need to bring?
  • What is the process for setting up a Twitch feed? Is it cumbersome? Expensive?
Anyway, any possible knowledge you have and can share would be most appreciated. Thanks!

EricH 03-03-2015 21:57
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
First thing to do is to talk to the Regional Director and the Regional Planning Committee. If they don't have a webcast group already, they'll probably be all over your request. They will also know who to talk to and what sort of input from the field you can get. If they do have a webcast group, they'll point you to them (hopefully); talk with that group.

mrnoble 03-03-2015 22:43
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Will do. I just talked to the Colorado director and will email Utah. Thanks!

Jay1986 03-03-2015 22:49
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
As for the twitch side of things, I would recommend learning OBS for streaming to twitch. You can photoshop your own overlays and update scenes during the broadcast.

Here is a guide for OBS on twitch:
http://help.twitch.tv/customer/porta...aster-software

Sperkowsky 03-03-2015 22:51
Are you saying a twitch feed as in a camera up in the stands if so. It's illegal. In order to connect to the Internet you would need a hotshot and even then you need a crap ton of bandwidth for a twitch stream. Along with twitch shutting down audio due to copy righted songs (bound to be played). If there's no webcast team already they might let you break a few rules but I still think it's a bigger pain then it is worth.

Jay1986 03-03-2015 22:55
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1453136)
Are you saying a twitch feed as in a camera up in the stands if so. It's illegal. In order to connect to the Internet you would need a hotshot and even then you need a crap ton of bandwidth for a twitch stream. Along with twitch shutting down audio due to copy righted songs (bound to be played). If there's no webcast team already they might let you break a few rules but I still think it's a bigger pain then it is worth.
Idk, in 2013 at Hub City we ran our own stream off a Hotspot and it seemed to work perfectly fine. You can tune the quality of your stream so it doesn't take much bandwidth and doesn't disrupt the quality that bad. Of course we had to go through all the same troubles of dealing with the FTA and allowing us to run the stream.

Abhishek R 03-03-2015 22:57
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay1986 (Post 1453133)
As for the twitch side of things, I would recommend learning OBS for streaming to twitch. You can photoshop your own overlays and update scenes during the broadcast.

Here is a guide for OBS on twitch:
http://help.twitch.tv/customer/porta...aster-software
Second OBS. Twitch is relatively simple to use as well, especially once you hook up the stream code to your software and setup your channel, you don't have to do a whole lot on the site itself.

EricH 03-03-2015 23:04
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1453136)
Are you saying a twitch feed as in a camera up in the stands if so. It's illegal. In order to connect to the Internet you would need a hotshot and even then you need a crap ton of bandwidth for a twitch stream.
You like watching webcasts, no?

So then, let me ask you a simple question. How do YOU think those webcasts are produced?



Spoiler for Further Hints:
Hint #1: FIRST doesn't run them.
Hint #2: Smart teams talk to RDs, FTAs, and the "men in black" (A/V crew).
Hint #3: You're doing this WITH permission, good luck trying to argue it's illegal if you work WITH the crew previously mentioned.

StevenB 04-03-2015 02:06
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
  • Definitely allowed. But as others have said, talk with the regional coordinators, since they're the ones who will give you permission to set up next to the field and tap of the big screen display. They're also the ones who can give you a fast wired internet connection.
  • Equipment: The easiest solution is to get a USB composite video dongle, such as this one (I've used this super-cheap one successfully on Linux, but YMMV on Windows 7/8). Then you just need a laptop that's at least kind of modern. My 7-year old machine struggles a bit, but anything newer than that should be fine.

    For better quality, you'll need an HDMI video capture device, which tend to cost about $200. I've used a Black Magic Design Intensity Pro with good results. You'll also need a much more powerful PC; I had an 8-core AMD something-something from a couple years ago and it was churning pretty hard.

    Talk to the AV people, I've usually found they're not talkative and are kind of doing their own thing, but are friendly enough and are happy to help give you the feed in the format you need.
  • Twitch setup: It's quite easy - less than an hour of setup if you've never done it before (and aren't too unlucky). Basically you sign up, find your "stream key" from your profile, and then configure OBS or whatever software you're using (I've used ffmpeg/avconv) to broadcast with that stream key.

Sperkowsky 04-03-2015 06:24
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricH (Post 1453145)
You like watching webcasts, no?

So then, let me ask you a simple question. How do YOU think those webcasts are produced?



Spoiler for Further Hints:
Hint #1: FIRST doesn't run them.
Hint #2: Smart teams talk to RDs, FTAs, and the "men in black" (A/V crew).
Hint #3: You're doing this WITH permission, good luck trying to argue it's illegal if you work WITH the crew previously mentioned.
I meant setting up the hotspot is illegal. In the NYC a team asked to livestream the event and they said no.

I do like watching the webcast (really just the finals) but as someone who has many hours livestreaming on twitch I wouldn't want to.

If they let you though I would buy the one month of xsplit. No matter what people say it's much better then obs other then that it costs money. I can get you a free code somewhere I would just have to dig around for it.

robert1356 04-03-2015 11:24
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Does Twitch play nice with all mobile devices? NASA is providing live feeds for some (most? all?) of the regionals, if the the regional wants it, but they are only doing Flash streaming - laptops and desktops only for viewing, no mobile devices.

I spoke with someone from RobotsRUs who used UStream at the Georgia Southern Classic Regional (Perry, GA) this past weekend. It worked but they (RobotsRUs) were only mildly supportive of the approach of using UStream for various legitimate reasons. UStream also randomly inserted commercials in the stream at some of the most inopportune times. They're looking for another way of doing it in the future.

I want to stay away from Flash and any of the streaming services that tie me to Flash are not my top options.

One thing going for Ustream, and it looks like possibly Twitch also is that, while they seem to be Flash based, they will fall back to H.264 and play in an iOS mobile browser. I don't have an Android device to test on. Is that a true statement for Android devices also?

I've been thinking about rolling my own - using Darwin Streaming Server and just spitting out a live rtsp stream. You only need one good connection to a remotely hosted "cloud server" which could then serve to the end viewer. Dealing with the bandwidth limit imposed by the cloud service would be the main concern. RobotsRUs said their peak viewing was about 400 users. Not huge and any decent server these days should be able to handle this.

IronicDeadBird 04-03-2015 11:25
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert1356 (Post 1453321)
Does Twitch play nice with all mobile devices? NASA is providing live feeds for some (most? all?) of the regionals, if the the regional wants it, but they are only doing Flash streaming - laptops and desktops only for viewing, no mobile devices.

I spoke with someone from RobotsRUs who used UStream at the Georgia Southern Classic Regional (Perry, GA) this past weekend. It worked but they (RobotsRUs) were only mildly supportive of the approach of using UStream for various legitimate reasons. UStream also randomly inserted commercials in the stream at some of the most inopportune times. They're looking for another way of doing it in the future.

I want to stay away from Flash and any of the streaming services that tie me to Flash are not my top options.

One thing going for Ustream, and it looks like possibly Twitch also is that, while they seem to be Flash based, they will fall back to H.264 and play in an iOS mobile browser. I don't have an Android device to test on. Is that a true statement for Android devices also?

I've been thinking about rolling my own - using Darwin Streaming Server and just spitting out a live rtsp stream. You only need one good connection to a remotely hosted "cloud server" which could then serve to the end viewer. Dealing with the bandwidth limit imposed by the cloud service would be the main concern. RobotsRUs said their peak viewing was about 400 users. Not huge and any decent server these days should be able to handle this.
Twitch mobile is a mess imo.
We are going to look into another service to stream, its pretty obscure though.
Its definitely not youtube... Nope not youtube at all

dodar 04-03-2015 11:31
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1453323)
Twitch mobile is a mess imo.
We are going to look into another service to stream, its pretty obscure though.
Its definitely not youtube... Nope not youtube at all
Twitch mobile works perfectly fine. And South Florida and Orlando have both been streamed on YT I believe for the past 2(maybe 3) years and they have worked pretty flawlessly. Plus a bonus for streaming on YT is that you can almost immediately archive live footage.

IronicDeadBird 04-03-2015 11:40
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dodar (Post 1453325)
Twitch mobile works perfectly fine. And South Florida and Orlando have both been streamed on YT I believe for the past 2(maybe 3) years and they have worked pretty flawlessly. Plus a bonus for streaming on YT is that you can almost immediately archive live footage.
Sorry I meant to say twitch can be a mess IMO. It works perfectly fine from a viewer standpoint but I have had some struggles with it from the streaming side. Turns out our youtube channel is in good enough standing that we can work through youtube live.

dcarr 04-03-2015 13:42
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robert1356 (Post 1453321)
Does Twitch play nice with all mobile devices?
Twitch has apps for Android and iOS that work very well. Not to mention, support for Chromecast and Amazon Fire TV.

blazingbronco18 04-03-2015 14:05
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1453329)
Sorry I meant to say twitch can be a mess IMO. It works perfectly fine from a viewer standpoint but I have had some struggles with it from the streaming side. Turns out our youtube channel is in good enough standing that we can work through youtube live.
Personally not a fan of the Youtube live streams, due to the fact of no audio. Makes it difficult to tell when matches are starting if your not paying attention to the stream the whole time. Also makes alliance selections a little difficult from the view side. You may consider looking into livestream.

IronicDeadBird 04-03-2015 16:12
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazingbronco18 (Post 1453429)
Personally not a fan of the Youtube live streams, due to the fact of no audio. Makes it difficult to tell when matches are starting if your not paying attention to the stream the whole time. Also makes alliance selections a little difficult from the view side. You may consider looking into livestream.
My understanding is that the audio was disabled on most youtube live streams because the background noise included music that would most likely have triggered Youtubes copyright violation system. Youtube goes hard when it comes to copyright enforcement absolutely true, but there are absolutely legal work arounds to this issue.

blazingbronco18 04-03-2015 16:21
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronicDeadBird (Post 1453545)
My understanding is that the audio was disabled on most youtube live streams because the background noise included music that would most likely have triggered Youtubes copyright violation system. Youtube goes hard when it comes to copyright enforcement absolutely true, but there are absolutely legal work arounds to this issue.
If your able to get a good feed with some audio. Then by all means go for it. Definitely looking forward to a good regional next week.

Deetman 04-03-2015 16:29
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
MAR gets around this with our YouTube webcast by feeding the microphones and game sounds to the DJ and the streaming system. YouTube is happy because we don't have copyrighted music playing but still have all the other audio, and the DJ can mix the microphones into their system. The music is never fed back into the stream input and any background audio from an open mic doesn't seem to be loud enough to trigger the copyright system. Unfortunately this may be harder to do at regionals because you don't have the same control over the event as we get with districts.

As far as why YouTube?
-auto archiving
-easy to use
-mobile YouTube just works and is preinstalled on almost all android devices, not sure about iOS.
-smart TVs have YouTube apps, others are present in some brands but not others
-pretty much anyone, despite age or technological know how knows how to use YouTube and is not afraid of it.
-Copyright infringement is copyright infringement whether you get in trouble for it or not. Unlike team provided webcasts, MAR has real assets that someone could come after through the legal system of they wanted to. Now is not the time to lecture on ethics though.

EricH 04-03-2015 20:18
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sperkowsky (Post 1453238)
I meant setting up the hotspot is illegal. In the NYC a team asked to livestream the event and they said no.
See, there's the thing. Who says you need a hotspot to stream the feed?



Right. You need Internet access, which is not repeat not the same as a hotspot. If the RD and his crew know ahead of time that you are interested, they can help make arrangements for that. I know IE's webcast computer was located somewhere around the scoring table.

blazingbronco18 08-03-2015 23:02
Re: Setting Up a Twitch Feed in Utah/Denver?
 
Are you guys planning to stream on practice day in Utah?


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