[FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Anybody have any ideas as to what next years platform will be, or speculation? Don't want anyone to spill any "top secret" info, but I'm trying to put together purchase orders for next year and want to plan ahead. I don't want to purchase any Lego robotics equipment if it's not going to be legal.

I didn't participate in FTC this year since we moved up to FRC, but want to train MS and possibly get a MS FTC team going in the next year or two as a feeder program.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

OOPS - sorry - didn't notice this was FTC..

Speculation, to be sure, but FRC seems to be in a four year cycle. The last twelve games, including 2015:

• balls, smaller (?) (Rebound Rumble, FIRST Overdrive, FIRST Frenzy)
• strange bedfellows (Ultimate Ascent, Lunacy, Triple Play)
• balls, larger (?) (Aerial Assist, Breakaway, Aim High)
• Placement (Recycle Rush, Logo Motion, Rack 'n' Roll)

I'd stock up on enough rollers and small motors to pick up relatively small balls for prototyping at least. We'll probably also base our summer camp challenge on small balls this year.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I'd budget around the same as you would for this year's electronics and then worry about purchasing hypothetical new electronics if/when they come out, which I doubt (presuming they're actually coming) would be much later than Championships in April, possibly sooner than that.

I also don't have any inside knowledge about this-- I've just heard rumors and speculation, so I hope I'm not completely misguiding you, but this is what I would do if I was planning on FTC next year.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

We were told by someone in a position to know that something new is being introduced for next season and that it isn't Lego-based but is of comparable price or less. The announcement was said to be imminent, but that was already 6-7 weeks ago.

I don't find it too surprising, since NXTs are at end of life ( no more will be produced after 2015: https://education.lego.com/en-us/les...v3/nxt-vs-ev3).

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

That would likely mean replacement of not just the NXT but the Samantha and the Motor and Servo Controllers. We can keep the battery though. :-)

Since we soon wont be able to get NXT's Does anyone know if it is possible to use
1) EV3 with USB Wifi dongle with the existing FTC FCS?
2) EV3 with Samantha with existing FTC FCS?

:deadhorse:

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Don't buy anything until you get confirmation from FIRST that the NXT/Ev3 will be used next year.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

+1

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Here you go the press release just went live. http://www.businesswire.com/news/hom...t#.VQB9Y-HqFpl It says it will be demonstrated at CMP, now to go finish reading it.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

There it finally is.

It looks like the details so far are:

• No more Lego NXT (or EV3) brains
• runs Android, so programming is in java (see http://appinventor.mit.edu/explore/)
• works with current sensors / hardware / electronics
• no more centralized FCS

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Nothing shown, but info...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK_UutoT-NI

Here is what is on FIRST's Website. http://www3.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/technology
Talks about stuff like: (I don't like the first one here...)

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Matt: I don't like that one either, and I'm an FTA who has to deal with all the fun stuff in the old system.
What happens if a team either doesn't press start right away, or the button press doesn't go through. Do they start 5 seconds late, and then run 5 seconds long, do they have to "e-stop" when the buzzer rings, do they get a penalty, or can they not run auto at all that match?

Some other comments:

• This system will take longer to start: I can almost guarantee that we will not be permitted to restart the controller in between Auto and Teleop even if something has gone wrong.
• I'm a bit concerned about device battery life (although theyre may be some sort of power off of the robot battery [I hope]) and or random device crashes, which I don't believe any Android device is immune from.
• EVERYTHING that goes wrong will be a "team problem" except for mechanical field failure. Therefore, if communication fails though something not the team's fault at all, it will always be their responsbility (you can argue if this si bad or neutral; I think it is hard to argue this is a good change)
• USB connectors on all control system components (given that they will probably be micro-sized, although I could be wrong) concern me as a likely point of failure (not in terms of breakage, but in terms of disconnection)

Some positive things:

• Wifi should be the same at home and competition (No program chooser issues).
• The system should be better for use with off the shelf sensors
• I'm hoping the new motor/servo controllers will be more reliable, but we will see.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

From what I have seen on the http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/ftc/technology, the controllers will be the same.
So unfortunately we might still have similar issues with power surges and loose wiring.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

It looks like you'll have the option to use the old system or use the new motor controllers. I can't wait to see what the new motor controllers look like.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I know, I want to see these things and get my hands on some! A lot to learn it looks like for next year.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

There seems to be lots of concern over the "sports start" but that same system was used for "Hot Shot!" and it worked remarkably well. All teams were practiced in using it and would start within a fraction of second of each other. It was simply a non-issue.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I would be interested in making custom driving systems, similar to FRC, instead of always using the Logitech Gamepads. That was one part of FRC I have always found really cool, and could be a lot easier to integrate into FTC now that it will be using these android devices.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

It just seems like a downgrade in my opinion. It doesn't feel like FIRST wants to spend the time and create a good field control. FRC has somewhat of a good control system, issues here and there, but I bet that this system will have issues as well. Your always going to have them with technology.

In other news, i'm glad I didn't by another Samantha Module when one of ours quit this year.

My teams will most likely switch to all of the new systems, as we usually keep up with all of the new and improved items that FTC has allowed/shown. Some learning is in order! (bummer that robotc is not being used next year. We have had code that works year after year....)

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Yeah, a bit. One of the observations during Hot Shot! was that, from the audience perspective, autonomous looked like there was team interaction when there was none.

That said, way too many matches and tournaments have been decided by samantha and I'm delighted to take this downgrade if it means reliable, lag-free control for teams.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

My guess is they're working out the kinks of the new hardware and potentially we'll have a new FCS next year, as there's likely a decent amount of stuff that would need to change on the back end to get this to work.

I can't wait to see the new hardware-- particularly what this "Snapdragon powered Android device" will look like. There are also references to a Power Board, new Motor Controllers, and "still being able to work with old NXT sensors and DC/servo motors", which implies we'll have new motors, new motor controllers, and new sensors to work with. I hope FIRST opens up the electronics like they have with material components.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

It would really be helpful now that the cat is out of the bag if there was some information on the new devices.

Is there a reason this has not been forthcoming. Are we worried about minor griping? Not really. Lets just see what we are going to be able to upgrade to and let us get started thinking and even purchasing before the kids go off to camp, vacations etc during the summer. Yes?]

are we talking about something like the bStem?

http://www.braincorporation.com/spec...Nov11_2013.pdf

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

My guess would be that everyone able to offer accurate, cogent advice is spending 25 hrs per day getting through this season (and prepping to offer useful info at Worlds).

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I suspect that getting all four teams to stop (stop scoring, stop moving, stop jostling game pieces, stop pushing other bots, stop ...) within a fraction of a second of each other will be the stronger test of whether this aspect of the season goes well.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Maybe they will Samsung Galaxy S6's? :ahh:
;)

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

When FTC did this before, teams had, for lack of a better description, an individual FCS that functioned like the centralized system. Teams were still required to use the templates and the individual FCS would send disable commands after 30 seconds, start teleop in disabled mode and only allow 120 seconds of active play. Teams could abort but not extend play. It worked well.

This won't happen but I see no reason (other than a team disadvantage) that FIRST couldn't dust off the old software and allow teams to continue with their NXT's.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

The info posted earlier said "Templates can be created in the software for autonomous and tele-operated modes and assigned specific times in accordance with the annual game."

The key word is "can".

I'm surprised to see "can" instead of "will".

Maybe the author was repeating what some marketing blurb says, instead of describing what FTC will do.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Pretty sure that you'll be able to modify the stock app used to control the robot for autonomous and teleoperated. So you'll have templates right there, sounds like a really cool way of doing it.

I wonder if this platform will cause use to see more Android-powered robots in real life, I think it has a lot of potential. If I can take the two android products sitting at my desk, plug one into a robot and the second into a gamepad, that's going to be really powerful.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Agreed. The Logitech gamepads have been pretty fragile in our experience - we've had lots of failed controllers, including some that were new. Allowing other controllers such as XBox controllers as well as custom USB controllers would be a nice upgrade.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I'd guess something more like a Nexus 4 for the controller and a Nexus 7 for the driver station, since the FAQ says they did a bulk purchase for cheap. So maybe my old N4 with the busted digitizer still has some value after all!

I think this is going to be really good. Think of all the sensors that are already built into a cell phone (camera, compass, accelerometer, gyro, etc.), and all the custom sensors that could be added, and this really raises the ceiling on FTC. Hopefully teams will take advantage of these new capabilities to make some really creative things. I saw way too many "robots" that were really just remote controlled vehicles (no sensor feedback, no autonomous) in my first year as an FTC mentor, but I think that using something that has such a huge pool of potential mentors and good online training is really going to help teams raise the level.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Considering this in hindsight... it seems like an obvious platform choice...

Anyone else see that there is likely a strong Google connection in here somewhere?

1) Google has shown that they see robotics as their future.
2) FIRST is the biggest youth robotics training ground.
3) Android is a Google mainstay.
4) Google Nexus devices use Snapdragon
4) Google has always been a strong FIRST supporter.

I wonder if Google and NI are now competing for our kid's brains. Yay !!!!

Not sure about the "Modern Robotics " connection. Must be a startup, or dark horse that will become clearer later.

This change is wonderful, in a scary sort of way.
Can't wait to see the HW at Worlds.

OK.. Update.

I see that "Modern Robotics Inc." Has the same zip code as "Dataport Systems", the parent company of HiTechnic ;)

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

The Google link could certainly be there, but I think the QualComm (Snapdragon) one is probably equally strong... as they have really ramped their support of FIRST.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Qualcomm was recently added as a FIRST Strategic Partner (Google already was one), so you are probably right. My guess would be Google Nexus devices, since those fit the sponsors and are pure android instead of some phone manufacturer version. Of course, it doesn't matter that much for app development as long as the apps are compatible with the OS.

One of the kids suggested that they could program the robot to drive itself to competitions next year, since there may be a built-in GPS. There are a lot of things in a typical phone that were external robot sensors the last few years (accelerometer, gyro) as well as new capabilities. It's going to be fun to see what teams come up with next year.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

One thing to note-the devices must support USB OTG (basically, they can act as both USB hosts and slaves) along with Wifi direct. I don't know that this eliminates many devices, but those are the two primary hardware concerns.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

My guess, although I have no support for this, is a Nexus 5 for the robot and a Nexus 7 for the DS. With Snapdragon + Google as strategic partners this would make sense and give Google a way to get a lot of the discontinued Nexus 5 and Nexus 7 off their hands (they support the right technologies and there is still probably a decent bit of surplus stock (which may have been sold to/be sold through FIRST at a relatively low cost)

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Anyone out there used both the proposed development environments and want to offer any comparisons for a Java Nube (but veteran programmer)?

1) Android Studio (which is based on IntelliJ IDEA)

2) MIT/Google App Inventor

Phil.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Android Studio is a full text-based Java Android IDE. It's the real deal for developing Java apps on Android. Free and full functionality.
See this image to get a sense of what it looks like:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/infinum.web...png?1393599597
(I developed the "Watch FTC Tournament" app in Android Studio.)

App Inventor is like Scratch for Java. You drag blocks together to make code. Easier to learn but not quite as flexible or fully functional.
See this image to get a sense of what it's like:
http://appinventor.mit.edu/explore/s...yCarBlocks.png
(I tried to develop a simple tank drive practice game in App Inventor, but found that it didn't fully support multi-touch on a screen.)

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

This change must have been coming for a long time

http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/...-android-robot

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I hope that FIRST will allow for the use of the Android NDK with android studio for performance critical tasks i.e. vision or sensor processing.

It seems to be possible:
https://software.intel.com/en-us/vid...android-studio

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I'm posting these here. THESE ARE NOT FROM THE CONFIDENTAL FILE that has been roaming. These were just released on the live stream from San Antonio from Ken Johnson.

Looks really interesting. Tablet sized for the driver stations. (Looks like we can make FRC type driver stations next year.)

My teams are going to try and buy all the new items, instead of using the old HiTechinic Boxes..

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I missed that! Great info! I agree with purchasing the new equipment. Excited about the "Advanced Sensor Module".

Anyone been able find much info about the Modern Robotics Inc? Website says will be up in April - http://modernroboticsinc.com/

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I think they are associated with HiTechnic or HiTechnic's parent company Dataport Systems. They are based out of the same cities.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Credit to 4962 for capturing the pics off the stream:

https://twitter.com/ftc4962

Edit: He presented the same thing as the FTC video released today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj9qySXJp9Q

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Here's the youtube video on the official FTC group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wj9q...ature=youtu.be

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

How likely do you guys think it will be to be able to use a Beagle Bone with a Wifi antenna? It can run Android, so it is technically an 'Android device'. The I/O pins would be a lot easier to use with custom sensors and such, plus it can much more easily be mounted onto various places.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Color me interested... I've got a N5 sitting around mostly unused right now. If I can use it as a robot controller simply I'd be a happy camper.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

I suppose that would work, but my first impression is that, for support purposes, FTC will try to limit their official support to the approved devices for at least this year, and you would be on your own if you have any issues. There is a new sensor input module that is supposed to interface to custom sensors, and I think that you may be handicapping your team by not using the phone, with its built in sensors and faster CPU and memory.

This is only my personal opinion, and YMMV! :)

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

It would be really helpful if the details about the android devices, power module, usb motor drivers and the Hub for USB OTG/PS3 controllers could be released well before the kids go off on break and all their other activities. We are building some (several) demo robots for an event scheduled soon. It would be a pity to have to buy current gear for them and obsolete that grear immediately. We have concerns that lag will be a factor when serial is converted to I2C and vice versa to communicate with the legacy controllers and sensors through the legacy mux. Therefore we plan to use the all new equipment set next year.

Our kids are eager to get started with something new, but are anxious that the new equipment will require a time consuming learning curve, given they felt development time was an issue for them in the current game. They were terribly behind in their preparations compared to last year and don't want to do that again.

what would be helpful?
release name of the two android devices so that we can buy our backup devices now.
Release the Java template for the controller and wifi system, something we can use to simulate commands at the robot end.

We can then work on the learning curve and apply the results to the new hardware when it is available.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

From the post in the official FTC forum:
http://ftcforum.usfirst.org/showthre...ull=1#post1290

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

If history is any indication, FIRST is saving the release of details for World Festival next month. I'm sure that the floodgates will open after that . . .;)

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

There should be demos at the World Championships in a little over a month.

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

New video posted.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jsBj6CssAg

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Hi, I am a google developer. I have worked with many of the recent technology including the cardboard and I have used both software, but mainly Android Studio.

App Inventor- Basic drag and drop system, and is very simple to use. This would be perfect for a team with no or little java experience. It is very quick to learn.

Android Studio- This is all java, and should be used by those who are experienced with the language. This takes some time to get used to but can be very powerful.


P.S. If you have any other questions, feel free to send me a message and I will gladly help!

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

Looking forward to the new technology. I would still like to use Samantha with NXT for some bots we make available for young kids to drive. The fcs software seems to have disappeared from the FIRST site. Does anyone know where I can download copies so we can still use our Samantha modules?

Tom Thompson

Re: [FTC]: Next year platform?
 

You can find it here: http://john.toebes.com/tetrix/SamoV310.exe