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BrennanB 06-03-2015 18:06
World Qualification Ranks
 
Thread/Google doc that is updated erratically. It's pretty simple, just merges all of the qualification data into one place.

Only done for fun, not meant to be an actual ranking list of best to worst robots, it's just a fun thing to look at.

Current Top 25

Code:
Rank        Team        Qual Ave
1        1114        141.5
2        148        116.1
3        2481        113.28
4        987        106.3
5        67        96.33
6        3130        95.66
7        2451        94.57
8        525        92.22
9        1519        90.41
10        744        88.9
11        4488        88.58
12        4048        84.66
13        3620        84
14        1706        83.85
15        118        83.8
16        176        82.55
17        1025        82.37
18        4330        80.5
19        1403        80.33
20        2386        79.33
21        1209        79.28
22        2607        78.91
23        5172        77.66
24        3824        77.33
25        1208        77.28
WEEK 1

Code:
Rank        Team        Qual Ave
1        148        116.1
2        987        106.3
3        3130        95.66
4        525        92.22
5        1519        90.41
6        744        88.9
7        4488        88.58
8        118        83.8
9        1403        80.33
10        2607        78.91
11        5172        77.66
12        3824        77.33
13        1024        75.5
14        4623        75.22
15        1983        75.08
16        1640        73.33
17        1477        73.3
18        2342        72
19        4859        70.55
20        179        70.4
21        1592        69.8
22        4539        69.55
23        348        69.2
24        4624        68.55
25        3242        68.3
WEEK 2 (In Progress)

Code:
1        1114        141.5
2        2481        113.28
3        67        96.33
4        2451        94.57
5        4048        84.66
6        3620        84
7        1706        83.85
8        176        82.55
9        1025        82.37
10        4330        80.5
11        2386        79.33
12        1209        79.28
13        1208        77.28
14        2609        76.28
15        857        71.42
16        931        71.33
17        3612        68.85
18        4256        68.42
19        5053        68
20        1732        67.71
21        4522        67.71
22        610        67.62
23        4779        67.44
24        16        67.42
25        5478        67.37

dodar 06-03-2015 18:15
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
47.8 difference from #1 to #25; that is amazing.

zachrobo1 06-03-2015 18:33
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
I ran some general stats:

Mean: 43.238
Median: 41.2
Standard Deviation: 13.624
Range: 119.28
Minimum: 22.22
Maximum: 141.5
Count: 955

BrennanB 11-03-2015 22:45
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
With week 3 events started/starting here are updated ranks

Worldwide

Code:
1        1114        142.9
2        2481        117.8
3        148        116.1
4        1678        109.6
5        987        106.3
6        2451        104.8
7        254        104.4
8        67        97.41
9        3130        95.66
10        525        92.22
11        1519        90.41
12        744        88.9
13        4488        88.58
14        1025        88.08
15        1208        86.4
16        118        83.8
17        2386        81.8
18        1403        80.33
19        4048        79.83
20        2607        78.91
21        4330        78.4
22        2137        77.83
23        5172        77.66
24        1706        77.5
25        4522        77.5
Week 2 Only

Code:
1        1114        142.9
2        2481        117.8
3        1678        109.6
4        2451        104.8
5        254        104.4
6        67        97.41
7        1025        88.08
8        1208        86.4
9        2386        81.8
10        4048        79.83
11        4330        78.4
12        2137        77.83
13        1706        77.5
14        4522        77.5
15        3616        77
16        314        76.83
17        3612        75.4
18        176        74.83
19        217        74.33
20        3620        74.16
21        1986        74.1
22        5053        73.83
23        701        73.8
24        379        73.66
25        4946        73.6

Chief Hedgehog 11-03-2015 23:20
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
That is an incredible list - and I love seeing 3130 in the top 10!

I was able to watch them at Northern Lights and they are incredible! The Errors have had great robots for the last three years that 4607 has been around and we always look to them for great ideas! We actually adopted some of their ideas from the Week Zero event (hosted by 2472 and 2052)...

My goodness I love this time of year!

faust1706 11-03-2015 23:24
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Your list doesn't filter out teams that aren't qualified for worlds (I think). I don't believe 1706 is qualified for worlds (hopefully not yet at least).

BrennanB 11-03-2015 23:35
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by faust1706 (Post 1456778)
Your list doesn't filter out teams that aren't qualified for worlds (I think). I don't believe 1706 is qualified for worlds (hopefully not yet at least).
It's not actually supposed to filter out anyone.

Galum 15-03-2015 14:59
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Any chance this would be updated with week 3 events? Pretty please with sugar on top? :)

AWoL 15-03-2015 15:03
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
I would love to see this updated for week three as our QA this week was 98.58 :D

theawesome1730 15-03-2015 16:03
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Our qual average was 126.3 or something like that placing us as number 2 if we had competed in week 2. Eager to see who's moved around

BrennanB 15-03-2015 21:31
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Updated as all the events just finished tonight :)

Both median and average jumped by 3 points, probably due to some teams starting to compete in their second event/people watching matches and learning how to play the game.

Of the top 100 Co-op per match scores came from the following weeks:

Code:
Week 1: 29%
Week 2: 37%
Week 3: 34%
Co-op scores in the top 100 are broken down here:

Code:
Max: 440  (Co-op stack in 11/12 matches) (Week 2)
Average: 321.2 (Co-op stack in 8.03/11.67 matches)
Min: 280  (Co-op stack in 7/12 matches) (Week 3)
And your most co-opiest teams are:

Code:
4539        94.4%
5782        91.7%
1649        90.0%
348        90.0%
2386        85.0%
1519        83.3%
78        83.3%
624        80.0%
2481        80.0%
744        80.0%
456        80.0%
4471        80.0%
348        79.2%
176        79.2%
4906        79.2%
178        79.2%
3130        77.8%
4859        77.8%
4564        75.0%
4048        75.0%
1024        75.0%
217        75.0%
4381        75.0%
133        75.0%
2079        75.0%
Litter however has been on the up and up, and teams have been using it more now than before.

Of the top 100 Litter score per match came from the following weeks:

Code:
Week 1: 14%
Week 2: 39%
Week 3: 47%
Seems like more and more litter is getting put in cans.

Finally the rankings:

Worldwide:

Code:
1        1114        142.9
2        1519        136.08
3        1730        126.3
4        2056        124.5
5        624        124
6        1983        121
7        2481        117.8
8        148        116.1
9        1619        115.3
10        1023        115.25
11        1678        109.6
12        987        106.3
13        2451        104.8
14        254        104.4
15        1523        102.7
16        3663        102.41
17        2974        101.3
18        234        100.33
19        225        98.58
20        2122        98.5
21        2996        97.9
22        67        97.41
23        3230        97.4
24        744        97.1
25        1501        96.91
Week 3:

Code:
1        1519        136.08
2        1730        126.3
3        2056        124.5
4        624        124
5        1983        121
6        1619        115.3
7        1023        115.25
8        1523        102.7
9        3663        102.41
10        2974        101.3
11        234        100.33
12        225        98.58
13        2122        98.5
14        2996        97.9
15        3230        97.4
16        744        97.1
17        1501        96.91
18        1806        96.8
19        4451        96.7
20        135        95.75
21        1720        95.41
22        2852        95.3
23        662        95.1
24        192        94.6
25        246        94.33

tindleroot 15-03-2015 21:50
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Woo! 4 highest seeds from Kokomo are all on the week 3 list, with the top 2 being in the overall list!:D

wireties 15-03-2015 23:06
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Those coop points really help! We had a weird weekend, seeded first and won Alamo with zero coop points all weekend - arghhh.

BobbyVanNess 15-03-2015 23:14
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
I don't mean to take away from the teams on these lists, but qualification scores are highly dependent on the depth of the particular event, and I think that it misrepresents the abilities of teams. Personally, I think it'd be more valuable to compare teams on a metric that better identifies their individual performance, like OPR.

That being said, the well deserving are rising to the tops of these lists anyway.

Nathan Streeter 15-03-2015 23:40
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby5150 (Post 1457992)
I don't mean to take away from the teams on these lists, but qualification scores are highly dependent on the depth of the particular event, and I think that it misrepresents the abilities of teams. Personally, I think it'd be more valuable to compare teams on a metric that better identifies their individual performance, like OPR.

That being said, the well deserving are rising to the tops of these lists anyway.
Agreed that depth of particular event will impact these (although so far less than 2014 that it really isn't funny).

Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there's no way to determine how much was scored in each category in each match this year... the twitter feed used to supply this data, enabling 'category OPR.' Without that, this is the best that can be done without a ton of effort.

(Edit: just realized I thought this was in Ether's thread with the category averages... guess the second bit is pretty much irrelevant. Ether's thread with top 25 in each average of category is quite interesting; look out for Ed Law's week 3 update for his OPR/CCWM spreadsheet)

Ether 16-03-2015 00:14
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan Streeter (Post 1458012)
Unfortunately, to my knowledge, there's no way to determine how much was scored in each category in each match this year... the twitter feed used to supply this data,
Correct.

Quote:
enabling 'category OPR.'
"Category" or as some call it "Component" OPR is still possible, by using the category (component) scores in the Team Rankings table. Problem is, DQs muddy up the waters because the FRC API that is supposed to provide DQ data is broken.

Quote:
Without that, this is the best that can be done without a ton of effort.
That's where Ed Law comes in :-) He devotes a lot of effort to make the most out of the data that is available.

BrennanB 16-03-2015 01:33
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby5150 (Post 1457992)
I don't mean to take away from the teams on these lists, but qualification scores are highly dependent on the depth of the particular event, and I think that it misrepresents the abilities of teams. Personally, I think it'd be more valuable to compare teams on a metric that better identifies their individual performance, like OPR.

That being said, the well deserving are rising to the tops of these lists anyway.
Exactly. OPR is a better guess at what individually the teams can do than qual average scores. And obviously watching their matches is an even better guess as to how they will preform in their next match.

What makes the list interesting is how weird seeding is this year. It's by far more indicative of a team's strength than previous years with win/losses and the list is only a data source for looking at how seeding changes.

The rankings themselves are no more useful than people keeping track of world high scores or many of the other things that we look at to an extent. Lists made of averages, OPR, or CCWM ultimately are for fun. You can't watch every single match to know who is better than who, but you can give educated guesses.

This data however can be used to quantify game trends to some extent, like the massive increase in litter in cans from week 1 to 2, and 2 to 3 to a lesser extent. More interesting things are in the data, you just have to look.

GuyM142 16-03-2015 04:53
Is it possible to do a similar ranking for finals averages?

Addison4300 20-03-2015 14:13
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
It says my team was at Orlando? We were at week1 Dallas, the rest of the stats are correct however.

cglrcng 22-03-2015 04:45
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobby5150 (Post 1457992)
I don't mean to take away from the teams on these lists, but qualification scores are highly dependent on the depth of the particular event, and I think that it misrepresents the abilities of teams. Personally, I think it'd be more valuable to compare teams on a metric that better identifies their individual performance, like OPR.

That being said, the well deserving are rising to the tops of these lists anyway.
YES they certainly are...and then capping them w/ Littered RC's over and over.

How can you possibly use Q Points Average to compare a midling robot in an 8 Q Match Regional (See Week 4 Virginia), against a 13 Q Match Regional (See Week 4 Waterloo), now add 1114, 2056, & 5406 to that mix? You cannot....More chances at success for 1114 & company, more chances at failure for many, many others. Or, the opposite fewer chances to stub your toe (or even have others do it for you in blind draw qualifying...I'm talking about non-movers, not the attempters).

The whole thing is percentage based to the very last few matches. How is it, that disparity in number of Q Matches was possibly left in?

Per Regional I understand...level playing field for all competing there is OK (each plays the same amount of matches). Comparing QPA at Virginia vs. Waterloo is not OK...Even without the super magic dream team alliance partners. (Outlier(s)...LOL Ummm, different planet or solar system maybe).

Does the OPR calculation set, somehow correct for that major disparity? If so, how? Inquiring minds want to know.

cglrcng 22-03-2015 07:37
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Please don't take any of the below (Team 5406), stated as personal, since it shows (w/ the 7 mid 200 point + playoff matches), that you contributed to each quite well, without seeking out the videos...yet!

Just trying to prove a point.

Put any absolutely "never move dead bot" (in the right place, on or off the field of course), w/ 1114 and 2056 in any Q Match, and their (the dead ones), personal QPA will exponentially increase without ever contributing a single point (call that the QPA Inflation).

Then increase the amount of matches from 8~13, and that difference gets larger & larger every match in the QPA.

This year you cannot judge even a single bot by their QPA, unless you know personally, that it is a major points contributor, or not.

Or just look at the easily seen spreads between the top QPA Averages, then their (as built/used), specialties are easily seen in the other data and very evident, the actual qualifying scores help here), as pertains to co-op, Auto, Container, Tote, & Litter.

(I Just noticed only 1 point total Litter in 10 Q matches in Dallas 148? You were the vid release masters of the over the wall bent litter stuff, and it was ruled legal). Headed back to watch the videos again now...Stacking, capping totes gains more points, and time is valuable for sure). I know w/ 987, I'd give them all the litter they can handle...but over that many Q matches? Hmmmm...

But, midrange in the QPA Rankings...The rest of the data avail. and listed is just as much junk too. You score Litter points, Tote points, RC points (I can do nothing...I get the same points, and credit, as the real contributors). TYVM. "The eyes still have it," by watching what robots can, and do actually, do.

Your eyes is all you have this year (thank you YouTube, Live streamers, videographers, and other contributors)...And the Playoff points averages the alliances do score.

There is no tossing the Last Stand at Waterloo Playoff scores or the 284 point Match 20 among others...They are as real (and scary & inspiring, all at the same time), as the master bots (and teams), that designed, built, operate, & posted them.
________________
Waterloo 30 bots, 13 Q Matches ea., total 65 Q matches (QPA Spread 183.46~53.38). At least 2 really high scorers. Third bot, I can't tell until I see the actual videos, as the QPA inflation rate takes over somewhere in there. (No offense please to 5406 @ 135.69 QPA, you earned it). Still though QPA inflation/deflation is real.

Virgina 64 bots, 8 Q Matches ea., total 86 Q matches (QPA Spread 83.25~21.25). Average scorers. No QPA Inflation rate appearing.

Difference.....5 more Q matches to either shine in, or stub your toe.

Comparisons you can possibly make between robots at 1 event today (Week 4), and the other based on any of the provided data (except of course 2 bots we already know are absolutely fantastic) ~ NONE WHATSOEVER. (You are comparing the economies of S. Africa and it's diamond and gold mines, to Botswana).

Now the Playoff scores and percentages are absolutely real, as long as all 6 bots were on the field or in the vicinity. As well as Playoff Alliance averages.

And some amazing averages & scores they are indeed!
_______________
Same 2 high scorer QA Inflation/Deflation applies to Dallas in Week
1, though w/ the weather affecting the event like it did, it isn't fair to judge that event. Just the bots that put up the great scores.

Sunshine 22-03-2015 09:53
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Does anyone know the 3 highest scores ever achieved so far this year? Or scored during elims vs qualifications? I know 1114, 2056 and 2935 scored 284 in their qualifications match. Just curious how our 216 points in semi-finals ranks. Kids are telling me it's the second best in world and first in country so far. I'm finding it hard to believe.
Thanks

Ether 22-03-2015 10:02
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine (Post 1460539)
Does anyone know the 3 highest scores ever achieved so far this year? Or scored during elims vs qualifications? I know 1114, 2056 and 2935 scored 284 in their qualifications match. Just curious how our 216 points in semi-finals ranks. Kids are telling me it's the second best in world and first in country so far. I'm finding it hard to believe.
Thanks
As soon as all the Week4 qual matches are done, I'll post my Top25 list again.

Sunshine 22-03-2015 10:12
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Thanks

nuclearnerd 22-03-2015 11:47
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cglrcng (Post 1460516)
(No offense please to 5406 @ 135.69 QPA, you earned it). Still though QPA inflation/deflation is real.
No offense taken. Our QPA was definitely higher than we contributed alone. Certainly our matches with 1114 and 2056 were our top scorers (252 @ q24 and 202 @ q54). We could put up 80 to 100 point ourselves if nothing went wrong. Our OPR of ~80 is closer to the actual mark. Still, we were able to post 190 points in q61 without 1114 or 2056, so we weren't completely carried :)

ijonny5 22-03-2015 11:48
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
I scanned TBA this morning. Sacramento put up 226 in the semi's and 218 in the finals yesterday, so only for a brief moment did we have the highest score in the US. If you have time, you should check out the Waterloo Regional stats, 1114, 2056 and 5719's LOWEST elimination score was 200 and the rest were over 224!

It was great to bring home another regional win with 2062 and 2530 yesterday. See you in St. Louis!

nuclearnerd 22-03-2015 12:25
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearnerd (Post 1460576)
Still, we were able to post 190 points in q61 without 1114 or 2056, so we weren't completely carried :)
Thanks to 1676 and 1305 by the way for being amazing alliance partners that match.

Ether 22-03-2015 15:25
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ether (Post 1460544)
As soon as all the Week4 qual matches are done, I'll post my Top25 list again.
Here's the raw data (in XLS format) for Week4 Qual Match Results and Team Rankings:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/papers/3120

You can search, sort, and plot it any way you like.

cglrcng 23-03-2015 04:32
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclearnerd (Post 1460576)
No offense taken. Our QPA was definitely higher than we contributed alone. Certainly our matches with 1114 and 2056 were our top scorers (252 @ q24 and 202 @ q54). We could put up 80 to 100 point ourselves if nothing went wrong. Our OPR of ~80 is closer to the actual mark. Still, we were able to post 190 points in q61 without 1114 or 2056, so we weren't completely carried :)
I saw some video also and I believe every word you posted (there is still an inflation value with the QPA's when there are a couple to a few exceptional bots present, especially for lesser contributors than those that can put up 100+ alone on the board). I knew you were a decent to higher contributor (even before I saw the vids), as even the best can't skyrocket to 282 without help, the game is limited in time. (You put up 190, you were never carried!) Great Job!

Thank you for not taking any offense. The data Ether has provided today (Weeks 1~4), and OPR vs. Live Scouting data, and discussions about the disparity in # of Q matches at events, and between events (and he does attempt to correct for that, but given the lack of actual per team vs. per alliance real data), I don't know exactly how much trust can be put in that this year. (I do realize that he is doing the best w/ data avail. though, and the extreme work put in to deliver that is fully appreciated BTW).

Then, I actually went and looked at the OPR data, and how he calculates it. I trust it a bit more now after comparing actual game play vids (action), for just kicks watching random game play in Q matches over many events for a few hrs., then some playoff matches (of course the cream always rises to the top there), and compared my opinions only of indiv. bot gameplay vs the OPR listing locations Weeks 1~4...It seems fairly somewhat true to form, robot to robot though, given their distinct capabillities (or not), if you look at it and, add scale top to bottom~ which is what the OPR actually does.

TY to Ether for making the data avail to all here, and explaining how you do the OPR calcs a bit more clearly, also.

c.shu 23-03-2015 07:57
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ijonny5 (Post 1460577)
I scanned TBA this morning. Sacramento put up 226 in the semi's and 218 in the finals yesterday, so only for a brief moment did we have the highest score in the US. If you have time, you should check out the Waterloo Regional stats, 1114, 2056 and 5719's LOWEST elimination score was 200 and the rest were over 224!

It was great to bring home another regional win with 2062 and 2530 yesterday. See you in St. Louis!
Our alliance (2137, 1918, 4967) put up 228 in Qualification match 47 at West Michigan.

Boltman 23-03-2015 09:57
Re: World Qualification Ranks
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Addison4300 (Post 1460126)
It says my team was at Orlando? We were at week1 Dallas, the rest of the stats are correct however.
Lots of errors in event locations had to fix 5 in my list of 29..otherwise seems accurate and a great resource. Thanks to those who compiled it.


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