Re: Ramps
 

Upon closer reading, I saw that. Odd ruling since no where in the manual does it say that for totes, support is transitive only through totes. I submitted a Q&A.

I suppose the intention may be to discourage the creation of unstable stacks.

Re: Ramps
 

...says the man who couldn't resist making yet another snarkey comment later on! I don't think the word "withdraw" means what you think it means. Perhaps you have been tethered by this thread.:rolleyes:

Re: Ramps
 

I really regret not looking into things you could deploy on the field this year. Dare I say I hope to see some of these mechanics "recycled" in the future. The designing challenges involved with tethers sounds like a lot of fun. Has anyone seen robots using ramps for things other then just augmenting the loading station?

Re: Ramps
 

[emphasis mine, Q&A from 3/3/15]

On the topic of tethers, if a tether were under a tote, this also invalidates the stack above it. This means that every time we submit scores for an 'invisible tether' (I make not claims as to what will end up being invisible) alliance, we'll need extra time to figure out exactly where the tether isn't as well as verify (informing the judgement call) that it isn't designed to simply break when entangled.

No one is talking about carding or fouling teams for making our lives difficult. That's personally ridiculous to me, and our lives are made plenty difficult by teams with things besides invisible tethers, don't you worry. This is more about match logistics (though do watch G11). Do you want to be the team that makes scoring and reset slower and more difficult? Potentially invalidate your own stacks? If the strategy/mechanism you're considering is otherwise legal, it's your choice.

Re: Ramps
 

For strength we ended up buying this:
http://www.amazon.com/Kevlar-Braided.../dp/B008QDMKG0

Rated tensile strength of 400lb and very flexible. Might not be great for visibility unless you layer it, but it is going to be very tough to break.

Re: Ramps
 

As a kite enthusiast (I use it for my KAP line)I would caution the use of Kevlar in applications where it could be pulled against something. It is good at resisting breakage but it is also very good at slicing when pulled tight and/or run against something.

Re: Ramps
 

So I have been looking into this for a couple weeks and would really like to know the rule that states that a "passive" ramp needs to be tethered to the robot. So long as the ramp has the appropriate numbering it should be able to be placed on the field without the use of a tether.

It can be placed inside of the robot to fit into transport configuration and then placed on the field, by the drive team and HP.

G25: ROBOTS may not intentionally detach or leave parts on the FIELD.

Since the robot itself is not intentionally detaching anything (the drive team is) and this is before the match even starts so G25 would not be violated.

I have looked around the Q&A as well.
Q289 I think is getting close to the question, but the answer is all about the tape mentioned as the tether.

And in Q56 which brought the tether into play, mentions it is used for sharing the electrical system between two mechanisms.

I think there just needs to be a team update the extends G25 to the time before the match. If someone has an actual ruling I would really appreciate that.

Re: Ramps
 

That risks opening up the can of worms where teams can now modify the field in unfair ways.

Re: Ramps
 

Gus I would have started out the list with R1.

Re: Ramps
 

Unfair ways? Like what? Every team would be allowed to do it so I would think it would end up pretty even. I interpreted it the same way as steelerborn, but every just thinks I'm crazy for it. I miss FLL when the rules meant exactly what they said and there was no "spirit of the rule"; seeing as this is just big kid FLL it would have been nice to try that interpretation for a year.

Re: Ramps
 

Easy:

A ROBOT is an (i.e., one) assembly.

Each TEAM may only enter one ROBOT.

Anything you detach from the ROBOT is no longer a ROBOT and should not be allowed to be left on the field (just like you can't leave the hand tools you brought with you on the field)

Re: Ramps
 

BigJ I think that is a fair reading of the rules.
But it does not also say that it is one assembly exactly.
I am not saying that you are wrong (I think both of us are technically right), but the rules are just allowing for different interpretations.

And the ramp itself does not meet the definition of the robot because it does not require power, communications, control, and movement. So it isn't a robot on its own, and G25 was never broken because the robot did not intentionally detach anything as I stated before.

I just think that G25 needs to be extended to HPs and drive team members leaving passive objects on the field.

Has anyone tried to do this at a competition yet? If so what rules were cited?

Re: Ramps
 

A good definition of fair is not "both sides can do it therefore it is fair."
Maybe this is a big kid version of FLL to you but that doesn't mean that is what it is for everyone. A lot of people gain a lot of different things from First. In this years game not so much but in future games the technicalities that arise from making field modifications are too complicated to deal with. This argument that states you could leave a ramp on your side of the field with no connection to the robot I could then use and go. "Well I'm going to go leave a wall on the opposite side of the field in front of the tote chutes because passive structures are now allowed to be introduced into the game"
Now whats the call?
Can it be interacted with by the opposing side cause its not part of the field or part of a robot?
More importantly is this fair?
At this point in time you aren't playing the game you are just playing the rules.

Re: Ramps
 

Nope. <G8> says "DRIVE TEAMS may not leave items other than their ROBOT on the FIELD."

Re: Ramps
 

Alan I think that is the best rule so far.
Thanks I was looking for the ruling so I could inform my team.